Clemson wants out of the ACC too...(shocker)

[HRE Otto IV]

Not sure because that 125 million has long reaching affects throughout your athletic department. If it was that cut and dry I guess I would be happy with my team making the playoffs. But this will trigger problems everywhere,

Will it trigger problems? Our peer conference schools are in the same boat so we won’t be less competitive. Nationally it might be harder to win a title since we cannot retain coaches or build fancy facilities. But outside the main sports does it really matter? Not like we are churning out titles now. Has the bump in ACC money vs Big East money made us any better?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

2 separate issues, IMO. If you're talking athletics and w-l records, sure you want the 4th best conference and offset some of your financial deficit by making the playoff.
If you're talking long-term, ie; permanent, financial well-being and security, then you're ok with 6-6 records, minor bowls, and a steady paycheck.
Most, of not EVERY program, will opt for the security/financial. It's the smart move.

After the dust settles there will be security. No more movement. We can run an athletic department on a $12.5M per yearly TV payout. We have done it before for less. If your peers are all making the same it is fine. If you are making $125M you need to keep up with your peers who can still outspend you. We won’t ever be able to keep up. If you spend all that money just to go 4-8, what is the point? It isn’t like we are baking the money.

 

[WoadBlue]

Very true. Good advice. Eyeballs and brands matter -- location matters.

Basically, what fanbases will subscribe to dedicated streaming networks?

My best bet to aid to the ACC would be USF. The school is larger than FSU, and I think their alums have a higher average income. USF has earned AAU status. Those alums are now very proud of that school, and it will carry over into sports.

 

[DoctorBombay]

After the dust settles there will be security. No more movement. We can run an athletic department on a $12.5M per yearly TV payout. We have done it before for less. If your peers are all making the same it is fine. If you are making $125M you need to keep up with your peers who can still outspend you. We won’t ever be able to keep up. If you spend all that money just to go 4-8, what is the point? It isn’t like we are baking the money.

It honestly makes no sense, but the greed has taken hold and here we are
I agree that at some point the "haves" in the P2 will start looking at "have-nots" in their own conference, and wonder why they should be making the same amounts as they are. It's inevitable.

 

[Shenexon]

If indeed the changes you all describe are inevitable, why would it make sense to let the BigSEC drive the change and leave the rest of us as bystanders. With NIL & student athlete free agency, College sports will never go back to what it was. Embrace the change, incorporate a new league with paid contract players that aren’t students, and create new content not connected with any current league.

Create a new entity with disaffected colleges, the NFL, cities that are interested in new sports franchises, and broadcast networks locked out of existing agreements. Players that aren’t interested or able to go to college, players that don’t make rosters with NFL teams, and college players that have exhausted their eligibility could make up the nucleus of players. Games could be played on off days for the NFL and college leagues or perhaps on a different schedule, preferably in college venues with available facilities.

If the need for additional content is what has driven the uncontrolled growth in money for broadcast rights, let’s help fill that void. Could be an eastern thing or national with cities or areas locked out of the BigSEC. Syracuse, Buffalo, Boston, Pittsburgh, Miami, DC, Atlanta, New Orleans, Philadelphia, Charlotte, and other cities left out of the CFB monopoly all around the country could be targets.

Let the cities, universities, NFL, and broadcast partners be co-owners of the franchises so they’d all have a stake in their success. Players that NFL teams can’t maintain on their rosters could make use of a developmental paid league. We’ve let the BigSEC drive the bus long enough. A new paradigm may not work but could at least be studied.

 

[orange79]

I can't imagine a Syracuse University that doesn't play big time football.



I hope I don't have to.

 

[CuseCactus]

Rutgers and Maryland beat us. No way to argue otherwise. They are in. We are out.

 

[Acesn8s]

IF the schools you are competing against are making many multiples of what you are making you can not compete case closed. The two major conferences are already stacking the deck with automatic qualifiers for the playoff and future playoff expansion, there will always be bottom feeders in a league somebody has to finish last but if that last place team is who you are fighting recruits for you will lose. The Rutgers and Northwestern's of the world will be able to offer much much more to recruits, and furthermore not just $$ it will be exposure as well. If Syracuse does not find a seat at the table which sadly I do not think they will, we will be no longer able to compete.

 

[Acesn8s]

My best bet to aid to the ACC would be USF. The school is larger than FSU, and I think their alums have a higher average income. USF has earned AAU status. Those alums are now very proud of that school, and it will carry over into sports.

If USF moved the needle at all the would have been gobbled up already. There are no schools besides Notre Dame that make any real difference.

 

[Atlcuse44]

Not sure because that 125 million has long reaching affects throughout your athletic department. If it was that cut and dry I guess I would be happy with my team making the playoffs. But this will trigger problems everywhere,

You can look at Vandy as an example. They are pulling in the SEC $$$ but how would it feel to be a fan? You know that every year you will probably have a losing record and have zero chance of winning the SEC. How can you get excited about that? Probably why over half of their stadium is filled with the opposing team's fans for home games. When UGA plays there, it is practically a home game for them.

 

[Acesn8s]

You can look at Vandy as an example. They are pulling in the SEC $$$ but how would it feel to be a fan? You know that every year you will probably have a losing record and have zero chance of winning the SEC. How can you get excited about that? Probably why over half of their stadium is filled with the opposing team's fans for home games. When UGA plays there, it is practically a home game for them.

The difference is when you eliminate the left overs from ACC and Big 12 the Vandys can buy those recruits if they want IMO

 

[Hoo's That]

Apparently everyone wants to go 6-6 in the SEC.

In a good year.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

IF the schools you are competing against are making many multiples of what you are making you can not compete case closed. The two major conferences are already stacking the deck with automatic qualifiers for the playoff and future playoff expansion, there will always be bottom feeders in a league somebody has to finish last but if that last place team is who you are fighting recruits for you will lose. The Rutgers and Northwestern's of the world will be able to offer much much more to recruits, and furthermore not just $$ it will be exposure as well. If Syracuse does not find a seat at the table which sadly I do not think they will, we will be no longer able to compete.

There will likely be 10 conference games in the future. So 10 of our ACC conference games will be our main competition not the B18 or SEC schools.

SU is small time football in the P2 world. So either we are a P2 punching bag or Boise State. I rather be Boise State and make the playoffs and be a punching bag in the playoffs than a year long punching bag.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You can look at Vandy as an example. They are pulling in the SEC $$$ but how would it feel to be a fan? You know that every year you will probably have a losing record and have zero chance of winning the SEC. How can you get excited about that? Probably why over half of their stadium is filled with the opposing team's fans for home games. When UGA plays there, it is practically a home game for them.

The only way it could work for SU is if there were divisions. If we were in the B18 Northeast division with Notre Dane, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland then we can once in a blue moon win the division.

Also the bigger the mega conference the better. More mid level games and not a gauntlet. SU in a 24 team B1G would be dead. In a 40, we could survive.

 

[Hoo's That]

{snip}

2) The FSU claim that ESPN can walk away in 2027 is only likely going to happen. First, ESPN is making money, the only MM division doing so right now. Second, there would be no need for this suit if ESPN was thinking of dumping the ACCN. Third, if ESPN loses the GOR all GORs are garbage. Fourth, this positions Fax in a stronger position to squeeze ESPN out of the northeast in College sports (read: hoops and football). With the BTN owned in part by each school (recall they must "BUY IN" to the BTN, they are most likely to stay together. The SEC is likely to stay together as long as the money is there. Only the BTN could lure them away.

{snip

Superb analysis. The highlighted is the key part. If GoRs are invalidated as a whole, then no conference is safe. I keep harking back to this. People love to say, "Why would anyone leave the big money of the SEC and B1G?" The reply is, "For even bigger money of a bluebloods-only conference." And if no one is tied to their present conference by a GoR, they can leave the day after the decision is finalized in the appeals process.

 

[Atlcuse44]

The only way it could work for SU is if there were divisions. If we were in the B18 Northeast division with Notre Dane, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland then we can once in a blue moon win the division.

Also the bigger the mega conference the better. More mid level games and not a gauntlet. SU in a 24 team B1G would be dead. In a 40, we could surviv

Agree on the divisions, we could compete in that. That is a best case scenario. My concern about being left behind is turning into a UConn in football. I'd rather be a B18 punching bag than a UConn. That said, with Fran, I don't think we would be a punching bag if we get tossed a life preserver. If we get left out, would Fran stay for long?

 

[Hoo's That]

Yeah, I don't get the put downs either. Northwestern is where we'd be but for the grace of God. Whatever their shortcomings and/or limitations, they have a seat at the big boy table...we don't.

They have a seat at the big boy table until the figurative price of being there (class attendance becoming optional) becomes too high and they excuse themselves. And to me it's only a question of when it becomes optional not if it becomes optional.

 

[Orangefizz]

There will likely be 10 conference games in the future. So 10 of our ACC conference games will be our main competition not the B18 or SEC schools.

SU is small time football in the P2 world. So either we are a P2 punching bag or Boise State. I rather be Boise State and make the playoffs and be a punching bag in the playoffs than a year long punching bag.

Here’s where i think we will land. An ACC/B12 merger:

Boston College (MA)
Syracuse (NY)
Pittsburgh (PA)
West Virginia (WV)
Cincinnati (OH)
Louisville (KY)
Duke (NC)
Wake Forest (NC)
Georgia Tech (GA)
UCF (FL)
South Florida (FL)

 

[Hoo's That]

It honestly makes no sense, but the greed has taken hold and here we are
I agree that at some point the "haves" in the P2 will start looking at "have-nots" in their own conference, and wonder why they should be making the same amounts as they are. It's inevitable.

They already have - "Why should we subsidize Vanderbilt?" Nick Saban.

 

[Hoo's That]

If indeed the changes you all describe are inevitable, why would it make sense to let the BigSEC drive the change and leave the rest of us as bystanders. With NIL & student athlete free agency, College sports will never go back to what it was. Embrace the change, incorporate a new league with paid contract players that aren’t students, and create new content not connected with any current league.

Create a new entity with disaffected colleges, the NFL, cities that are interested in new sports franchises, and broadcast networks locked out of existing agreements. Players that aren’t interested or able to go to college, players that don’t make rosters with NFL teams, and college players that have exhausted their eligibility could make up the nucleus of players. Games could be played on off days for the NFL and college leagues or perhaps on a different schedule, preferably in college venues with available facilities.

If the need for additional content is what has driven the uncontrolled growth in money for broadcast rights, let’s help fill that void. Could be an eastern thing or national with cities or areas locked out of the BigSEC. Syracuse, Buffalo, Boston, Pittsburgh, Miami, DC, Atlanta, New Orleans, Philadelphia, Charlotte, and other cities left out of the CFB monopoly all around the country could be targets.

Let the cities, universities, NFL, and broadcast partners be co-owners of the franchises so they’d all have a stake in their success. Players that NFL teams can’t maintain on their rosters could make use of a developmental paid league. We’ve let the BigSEC drive the bus long enough. A new paradigm may not work but could at least be studied.

Paid players who don't have to attend class are the eventual endgame the bluebloods of the SEC and B1G want and are working to create. The universities will own franchises like the Universities in Mexico City (Pumas) and Nuevo Laredo (Tigres) do in the Mexican soccer league.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Agree on the divisions, we could compete in that. That is a best case scenario. My concern about being left behind is turning into a UConn in football. I'd rather be a B18 punching bag than a UConn. That said, with Fran, I don't think we would be a punching bag if we get tossed a life preserver. If we get left out, would Fran stay for long?

I agree about UConn. If the choices are something like that or B12 then sure. But if the choices are ACC or a new Northeastern conference, then I say no to the B12. UConn got left with no one to play. That wouldn’t be the case for us.

If we get left out of the P2 I rather create a new conference of BC, UConn, SU, Army/St Johns, Pitt, Nova. Navy/Georgetown, JMU, Duke, Wake, GA Tech, USF, Notre Dame than be in the B12. That is a hell of a BBall conference.

 

[GHLF]

Paid players who don't have to attend class are the eventual endgame the bluebloods of the SEC and B1G want and are working to create. The universities will own franchises like the Universities in Mexico City (Pumas) and Nuevo Laredo (Tigres) do in the Mexican soccer league.

Sounds like modern slavery, reel them in, use them up, sort them out, the NFL will skim off the top when ready and the leftovers will leave maimed with no degree at an even greater clip. This is what we have come to? Almost prophetic my friends. Would we send our children into this?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[PeteCalvin]

I remember seeing someone on here post about the other conferences banding together with the NCAA and kicking the SEC and B1G out of the NCAA Tournament and telling them to have their own tournaments for all sports. Well, I posed that question to my insider to see if that was something even remotely possible. Nope. Ironically, CBS’s most prized conference for the Big Dance is the B1G. Those schools have giant fan bases across a large section of viewing areas. They drive the ratings. In fact, the dirty little secret is that CBS schedules the time slots and game times with the B1G teams in mind. Too bad they haven’t won the thing since 2000, for CBS’s sake.

The B1G is ruining everything, and there isn’t much anyone can do to stop them. It would take a mutiny, but that’s not happening. Too much $$$ at stake.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I remember seeing someone on here post about the other conferences banding together with the NCAA and kicking the SEC and B1G out of the NCAA Tournament and telling them to have their own tournaments for all sports. Well, I posed that question to my insider to see if that was something even remotely possible. Nope. Ironically, CBS’s most prized conference for the Big Dance is the B1G. Those schools have giant fan bases across a large section of viewing areas. They drive the ratings. In fact, the dirty little secret is that CBS schedules the time slots and game times with the B1G teams in mind. Too bad they haven’t won the thing since 2000, for CBS’s sake.

The B1G is ruining everything, and there isn’t much anyone can do to stop them. It would take a mutiny, but that’s not happening. Too much $$$ at stake.

Not surprising. They have the most Alumni and are the biggest schools.