Coach Search Options after Autry

[Jake]

Four winning seasons, one losing season, the only one in his 47 years of coaching. .500 or better in ACC conference play each year except for the losing season. Two tournament appearances, one Sweet Sixteen, one COVID year with no post season for anyone. Jim's decline as a coach is exaggerated. I get that he slipped a bit from the high-level winning standard he built. He didn't torpedo this program.

We’ll agree to disagree. He fought the inevitable trend of player movement. Failed to adjust away from M2M when it was failing him regularly.

His practices devolved into 90 minute walkthrough/shootarounds. He stopped recruiting.

We should all be thankful that there wasn’t another 5-7 overweight boeheim, because he would made room for him too.

Players left because they knew Jimmy was playing 35min/game.

The list is endless.

What did he leave his successor? Players that they had to beg to retain because they were gone if JB remained.

It was a train wreck.

 

[RF2044]

Four winning seasons, one losing season, the only one in his 47 years of coaching. .500 or better in ACC conference play each year except for the losing season. Two tournament appearances, one Sweet Sixteen, one COVID year with no post season for anyone. Jim's decline as a coach is exaggerated. I get that he slipped a bit from the high-level winning standard he built. He didn't torpedo this program.

Uh... by our program's standards, just about every single indicator you list is clear evidence that he DID.

 

[orange79]

Four winning seasons, one losing season, the only one in his 47 years of coaching. .500 or better in ACC conference play each year except for the losing season. Two tournament appearances, one Sweet Sixteen, one COVID year with no post season for anyone. Jim's decline as a coach is exaggerated. I get that he slipped a bit from the high-level winning standard he built. He didn't torpedo this program.

You can throw as many stilettos as you want, but you are telling people who KNOW what happened that they are wrong.

You are on the wrong side of history here. Take the L and move on.

 

[RF2044]

Four winning seasons, one losing season, the only one in his 47 years of coaching. .500 or better in ACC conference play each year except for the losing season. Two tournament appearances, one Sweet Sixteen, one COVID year with no post season for anyone. Jim's decline as a coach is exaggerated. I get that he slipped a bit from the high-level winning standard he built. He didn't torpedo this program.

Remind me again, what was his winning percentage the first 38 years, and what was it the last 8 years?

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Irishsecra1]

I’m fairly certain Maliq did get recruited away by Duke when GMac was still here. But maybe Maliq knew Red couldn’t coach.

Actually there was an interview with Maliq.
He said he never considered leaving till Gerry left.
Always planned on staying the 4 years but when Gerry left, and then a few players, he decided the team he had believed in was gone and it was time to start over.

 

[Dinkyspond]

Actually there was an interview with Maliq.
He said he never considered leaving till Gerry left.
Always planned on staying the 4 years but when Gerry left, and then a few players, he decided the team he had believed in was gone and it was time to start over.

and Duke gave him a huge bag, let's not fail to mention that...

 

[CooperCuse]

We’ll agree to disagree. He fought the inevitable trend of player movement. Failed to adjust away from M2M when it was failing him regularly.

His practices devolved into 90 minute walkthrough/shootarounds. He stopped recruiting.

We should all be thankful that there wasn’t another 5-7 overweight boeheim, because he would hade room for him too.

Players left because they knew Jimmy was playing 35min/game.

The list is endless.

What did he leave his successor? Players that they had to beg to retain because they were gone if JB remained.

It was a train wreck.

An absurd list. Probably the funniest is that players left because of Jimmy. He played one season at Syracuse. How many players left Autry for greener pastures? A whole bunch of them. The condition and performance of this team in recent years is on Red, not Jim.

 

[SuFTW]

I’m fairly certain Maliq did get recruited away by Duke when GMac was still here. But maybe Maliq knew Red couldn’t coach.

Don’t think this is correct, but if it were true that is on Autry, not GMac.

After his sophomore year, however, there was no continuity. Copeland and Taylor entered the transfer portal five days after the Orange’s season ended. Just over a week later, Carey followed. Two days later, assistant coach Gerry McNamara — Brown’s primary recruiter — became Siena’s head coach. Meanwhile, Mintz mulled over his future before leaving for the NBA.
“The dynamics changed, and once everything changed, he felt like he was starting all over,” Brown’s mother, Tasha, said. “So he said, ‘If I’m gonna start all over, why not bet on myself? Why not take a chance just to see what else could be out there?’”

This prompted Brown to enter the portal on April 1. The forward became one of the most sought-after players in college basketball,

Inside Maliq Brown’s transfer from Syracuse, role at Duke

Because of changing dynamics at Syracuse, Maliq Brown transferred to Duke. He’s since become an unsung hero.

dailyorange.com

 

[CooperCuse]

You can throw as many stilettos as you want, but you are telling people who KNOW what happened that they are wrong.

You are on the wrong side of history here. Take the L and move on.

Then explain what happened, if you're in the know. I've not told anyone they are wrong, although that's exactly what you are currently doing to me. You're also telling me to be quiet, something you people on here do a lot when opinions differ from the gatekeepers. This is a discussion board, right, or is discussion not allowed here? You think Jim wrecked the program on purpose? Because that's what torpedo means.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Don’t think this is correct, but if it were true that is on Autry, not GMac.

After his sophomore year, however, there was no continuity. Copeland and Taylor entered the transfer portal five days after the Orange’s season ended. Just over a week later, Carey followed. Two days later, assistant coach Gerry McNamara — Brown’s primary recruiter — became Siena’s head coach. Meanwhile, Mintz mulled over his future before leaving for the NBA.
“The dynamics changed, and once everything changed, he felt like he was starting all over,” Brown’s mother, Tasha, said. “So he said, ‘If I’m gonna start all over, why not bet on myself? Why not take a chance just to see what else could be out there?’”

This prompted Brown to enter the portal on April 1. The forward became one of the most sought-after players in college basketball,

Inside Maliq Brown’s transfer from Syracuse, role at Duke

Because of changing dynamics at Syracuse, Maliq Brown transferred to Duke. He’s since become an unsung hero.

dailyorange.com

Thanks for the correction. I knew the timing was close. Seems like once GMac was gone he didn’t have a reason to stay.

 

[SUfanNC]

Then explain what happened, if you're in the know. I've not told anyone they are wrong, although that's exactly what you are currently doing to me. You're also telling me to be quiet, something you people on here do a lot when opinions differ from the gatekeepers. This is a discussion board, right, or is discussion not allowed here? You think Jim wrecked the program on purpose? Because that's what torpedo means.

I don’t think it was on purpose. I think what he wanted and felt he earned started this unravel. He is one of the best coaches but lost his way towards the end and it hurt the program in the long run. Sometimes you can’t see the forest through the trees.

 

[CooperCuse]

I don’t think it was on purpose. I think what he wanted and felt he earned started this unravel. He is one of the best coaches but lost his way towards the end and it hurt the program in the long run. Sometimes you can’t see the forest through the trees.

I agree with this. I've been bothered in this thread by the sentiment that Jim harmed the program on purpose. Even at his worst he was better than what followed.

 

[RF2044]

An absurd list. Probably the funniest is that players left because of Jimmy. He played one season at Syracuse. How many players left Autry for greener pastures? A whole bunch of them. The condition and performance of this team in recent years is on Red, not Jim.

Thanks for sharing the apologist point of view.

Red is a terrible head coach, no one will argue that, but the table had been set for program decline long before he took over for an old man who refused to step down and ran the program into the ground.

If people were more intellectually honest about the end of Boeheim's tenure, we never would be in this position in the first place.

 

[Lame-0]

While I don't want Hop, I won't give up on the program. I would never give up on the program. I have been a fan for 50 years. I would have to have faith that Hop can do somethiing he could not do at Washington. I would welcome him back, and support him to the best of my ability. Would I be dissapointed, yes, but not devastated.

Agree, and I've been a fan for 60 years.

 

[CooperCuse]

Thanks for sharing the apologist point of view.

Red is a terrible head coach, no one will argue that, but the table had been set for program decline long before he took over for an old man who refused to step down and ran the program into the ground.

If people were more intellectually honest about the end of Boeheim's tenure, we never would be in this position in the first place.

You can use inflammatory language like "apologist point of view" and "intellectually honest" if you want, it doesn't mean anything. I would also say that Jim Boeheim deserves more respect than calling him an old man and saying he ran the program into the ground. I've always believed that he earned the right to go out on his own terms and have input into who took over the program. Instead, the university treated him poorly and so did many fans.

 

[swish7]

I hear GMacs interview is going pretty well

 

[oldpinepoint]

You can use inflammatory language like "apologist point of view" and "intellectually honest" if you want, it doesn't mean anything. I would also say that Jim Boeheim deserves more respect than calling him an old man and saying he ran the program into the ground. I've always believed that he earned the right to go out on his own terms and have input into who took over the program. Instead, the university treated him poorly and so did many fans.

JB didnt run the program into the ground, Red did that however JB got the balling rolling. A lot of good people stay too long in a position, he was one of them. Wasn’t ready to let go, ego and selfishness.

 

[orange79]

Then explain what happened, if you're in the know. I've not told anyone they are wrong, although that's exactly what you are currently doing to me. You're also telling me to be quiet, something you people on here do a lot when opinions differ from the gatekeepers. This is a discussion board, right, or is discussion not allowed here? You think Jim wrecked the program on purpose? Because that's what torpedo means.

1. I am not "in the know". But I know who to listen to, unlike you.
2. I am not telling you to be quiet, but if you listen and read every post, you will learn things. Specifically, what Jake said.
3. Do I, personally, think JB wrecked the program on purpose? No, but I think what he did do didn't help it. I think his personal situation led him to do things that weren't necessarily in the best interest of the program. Do I think he thought they would work out? Probably. But I'm not sure anyone else did.
4. You people? Really?

Goodbye.

 

[5OutFred]

Sorry, can we stop with the Boeheim stuff? It's been 3 years. It's over, and it's exhausting. What's the point?

 

[Cusefan78]

I hear GMacs interview is going pretty well

If this is an interview it’s going very well. The team plays with intensity.

 

[swish7]

If this is an interview it’s going very well. The team plays with intensity.

I dont know if it is or not, but his team does a lot of things well.

It would be a bold move to pass him over for someone else, unless that someone else does significantly better in the tournament.

 

[RF2044]

You can use inflammatory language like "apologist point of view" and "intellectually honest" if you want, it doesn't mean anything. I would also say that Jim Boeheim deserves more respect than calling him an old man and saying he ran the program into the ground. I've always believed that he earned the right to go out on his own terms and have input into who took over the program. Instead, the university treated him poorly and so did many fans.

He does deserve respect. His first 38 years were amazing. His last 8 were a significant decline. That can't be debated with ANY intellectual honesty. Like other icons, he hung on too long as the program crumbled around him, to the detriment of said program.

Both of those things can be true, simultaneously. And, the decline was real. No amount of starry-eyed pretending whitewashes that.

And I categorically reject the "earned his right to go out on his own terms" point of view. He is the only D1 head coach to land his team on probations, twice. He rejected the HCIW arrangement that was in place. He got to coach his two sons. THAT was his reward -- not an unlimited blank check to continue driving the program into the ground.

If he'd been winning at a reasonable clip, he would have been justified to stay. Since his winning percentage declined from ~74% his first 38 years to ~54% his final eight, the University couldn't afford to let him stay and continue to drag the program under. It's a performance based profession, and his performance had cratered.

This line of yours: I've always believed that he earned the right to go out on his own terms and have input into who took over the program. Instead, the university treated him poorly and so did many fans.

...is exactly why the program is in the place it is. Revisionist history.

I'm still greatly appreciative of all of the joy he brought me as a fan, over the decades I cheered for his team. But I can acknowledge that the wheels had begun to come off toward the end. Recognizing that isn't a "betrayal" of being a fan of Syracuse University basketball. Maybe if Boeheim hadn't been so billigerent and problematic at the end, the athletic department would have conducted a legitimate search for the next head coach, instead of attempting to mollify the temper-tantrum of the outbound coach by hiring an unqualified internal candidate. And we wouldn't be in this embarrassing position.

 

[Jake]

You can use inflammatory language like "apologist point of view" and "intellectually honest" if you want, it doesn't mean anything. I would also say that Jim Boeheim deserves more respect than calling him an old man and saying he ran the program into the ground. I've always believed that he earned the right to go out on his own terms and have input into who took over the program. Instead, the university treated him poorly and so did many fans.

His own terms? No because his own terms means he’d still be there.

If those terms are reasonable, sure. They weren’t.

He was a great coach. And I think he was still a great game coach til the end.

But all that other stuff?!?! Not so much at the end.

 

[WoadBlue]

He does deserve respect. His first 38 years were amazing. His last 8 were a significant decline. That can't be debated with ANY intellectual honesty. Like other icons, he hung on too long as the program crumbled around him, to the detriment of said program.

Both of those things can be true, simultaneously. And, the decline was real. No amount of starry-eyed pretending whitewashes that.

And I categorically reject the "earned his right to go out on his own terms" point of view. He is the only D1 head coach to land his team on probations, twice. He rejected the HCIW arrangement that was in place. He got to coach his two sons. THAT was his reward.

This line of yours: I've always believed that he earned the right to go out on his own terms and have input into who took over the program. Instead, the university treated him poorly and so did many fans.

...is exactly why the program is in the place it is. Revisionist history.

That hanging on too long is a major problem across coaching. It hoopoes because many people with power obvert hires also want to deny their own aging and so think about coaching that way.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Sorry, can we stop with the Boeheim stuff? It's been 3 years. It's over, and it's exhausting. What's the point?

We’re about to ride the bus off the cliff into HopkinsVille and all people care about is who changed the oil last.