coaching status'

[GoSU96]

Why? It doesn't always take 5 years to turn a program around to respectable. We went to a bowl last year and should have gone to one this year. Nobody will convince me we should have lost all 5 of those games. It's no longer just about "turning the program around", it's also about winning games.

Most programs don't fall to the depths this one did.

 

[rrlbees]

Most programs don't fall to the depths this one did.

The depth that you want to define it as. Many of those players that were in the depths of hell found a way to win and go to a bowl. So maybe it wasn't quite the depth you like to call it. In any given year, there is not a huge difference between teams 50-100. You know as well as I do, that with a couple of breaks this year or a bounce or decision here and there, we could have won at least 2 more games. 7-5 and win the bowl game? It's not a 5 year deal no matter how many times some say it is. It's an excuse is all.

 

[kingottoiii]

The depth that you want to define it as. Many of those players that were in the depths of hell found a way to win and go to a bowl. So maybe it wasn't quite the depth you like to call it. In any given year, there is not a huge difference between teams 50-100. You know as well as I do, that with a couple of breaks this year or a bounce or decision here and there, we could have won at least 2 more games. 7-5 and win the bowl game? It's not a 5 year deal no matter how many times some say it is. It's an excuse is all.

It is amazing. A few breaks here or there and we go Bowling in 2009, 2010, and 2011 with GRob recruits carrying the load. So how does one explain that? If things were as bad as GO thinks they were (which is extremely silly), then how the hell have we been a few breaks away from three straight Bowls? It is all BS excuses. If things were that bad then how have we been a .500 club the last 3 years and put multiple kids on the All BE teams? He makes more excuses than Perry's Grandma, but at least she had a reason to be biased.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

there were very few games this year, where the opposing team, a tremendous amount more talent than we did. Only game was USC and I say Rutgers ( but Shady can't coach) . The coaching, execution, and lack of on field disclipine have to get better. Those that believe Marrone has brought in a ton of more talent than GROB did are kidding themselves in my opinion, sure we have upgraded in a few areas but the coaching stunk last year as well. As Bees said, the mental errors, penalities, etc need to end and it has nothing to do with talent right now. When we get to the ACC, we will need better coaching and better talent to compete

 

[Chip]

The depth that you want to define it as. Many of those players that were in the depths of hell found a way to win and go to a bowl. So maybe it wasn't quite the depth you like to call it. In any given year, there is not a huge difference between teams 50-100. You know as well as I do, that with a couple of breaks this year or a bounce or decision here and there, we could have won at least 2 more games. 7-5 and win the bowl game? It's not a 5 year deal no matter how many times some say it is. It's an excuse is all.

When you think about it, this is the list of 2010 players that we recruited by the previous coach. The starting QB, the starting RB, the backup RB, all the contributing WRs, all the contributing TEs, the 2 best OL, 9 of 11 starters on D. How does a team win 8 games that quickly in a TOTAL rebuild using so many of the previous coach's players? You wouldn't think it possible in a TOTAL rebuild.

 

[Chip]

Most programs don't fall to the depths this one did.

We went from a 6 win program to a 3 win program. Did it suck? Of course it did. Were we Kansas State before Bill Snyder was first hired? Far from it. You talk like we went from 1987 to 2005 overnight, that's the whole story, and it would take anyone at least 5 years to get back those 3 wins, even if they already exceeded it in 2 years.

It also seems like you've setup your 'Marrone didn't work out' contingency plan, by blaming this board for his inability to succeed.

 

[timkay99]

When you think about it, this is the list of 2010 players that we recruited by the previous coach. The starting QB, the starting RB, the backup RB, all the contributing WRs, all the contributing TEs, the 2 best OL, 9 of 11 starters on D. How does a team win 8 games that quickly in a TOTAL rebuild using so many of the previous coach's players? You wouldn't think it possible in a TOTAL rebuild.

I am confused. Nassib, Bailey were G-Rob recruits.

Backup RB recruited by G-Rob? Who is that exactly?

All contributing WR's? I don't count Dorian Graham (since he was a CB pre Marrone), and Alec Lemon was kept on by Marrone (which you can't say for half the class that year under G-Rob)
All contributing TE's? David Stevens was a LB under G-Rob.

2 best OL? Pugh was similar to Lemon in regards to recruiting, but all others were Marrone recruits. And Tiller was the 2nd best OL.

9 of 11 starters on D? Vaughan, Chandler Jones and Marinovich were the only starters recruited by G-Rob.

I am not saying Marrone has been a great recruiter, but it varies based on what you are looking for.

G-Rob recruited better high-end talent with struggles in getting depth from his classes. And those high-end talent guys struggled to develop, as most were busts.

Marrone recruits a lot of depth and struggles to get the high end talent. This will be the year to see if Marrone could recruit skill positions, as Hunt may see some formations, the RB will be Marrone's and there will be other WR's besides West that need to step up. TE will be almost entirely Marrone recruits.

 

[Chip]

I am confused. Nassib, Bailey were G-Rob recruits.

Backup RB recruited by G-Rob? Who is that exactly?

All contributing WR's? I don't count Dorian Graham (since he was a CB pre Marrone), and Alec Lemon was kept on by Marrone (which you can't say for half the class that year under G-Rob)
All contributing TE's? David Stevens was a LB under G-Rob.

2 best OL? Pugh was similar to Lemon in regards to recruiting, but all others were Marrone recruits. And Tiller was the 2nd best OL.

9 of 11 starters on D? Vaughan, Chandler Jones and Marinovich were the only starters recruited by G-Rob.

I am not saying Marrone has been a great recruiter, but it varies based on what you are looking for.

G-Rob recruited better high-end talent with struggles in getting depth from his classes. And those high-end talent guys struggled to develop, as most were busts.

Marrone recruits a lot of depth and struggles to get the high end talent. This will be the year to see if Marrone could recruit skill positions, as Hunt may see some formations, the RB will be Marrone's and there will be other WR's besides West that need to step up. TE will be almost entirely Marrone recruits.

1. Did you catch the part in the post where I said the 2010 team? My point worked better when focusing on the winning team rather than another losing team. That covers much of your post.

2. One coach finding a recruit, getting him to commit to the school, and then another coach honoring that scholarship can go either way, but in this context I chose to give credit to the guy who found the recruit and initially convinced him to go to SU. Which covers Pugh and Lemon.

3. Again, context, but if you get an athlete to come here, and then he switches positions, you could more likely give credit to the 2nd coach. But since we're talking 2010 anyway, Graham and Stevens didn't have much of a role at all in the offense, so kinda moot.

 

[ImperialOrange]

That is false. 1. It was a 7 W season. We played 2 1AAs they both didn't count to Bowl eligibility. He shouldn't get a cookie for beating Arkon, Colgate, and Maine. 2. We were one of the bottom BCS teams NOT D1A teams. Stop making it seem like we were worse than we were to justify Marrone's failings. If you cared about SU FB and not Marrone you wouldn't be so forgiving.

So Marrone doesn't get credit for beating Akron... do you still count GRobs loss to Akron? How GRobs loss to Miami (OH)?
We were in fact one of the worst D-1 teams under GRob. We are now in the low end of BCS teams but not the worst under Marrone. Doesn't make it feel great but that's what it is.

2 years after losing to Akron by 14 and beating Northeastern by 9 we beat Akron by 26, Maine by 24 and Colgate by 35 with alot of the same players. We didn't need both IAA's to count for bowl eligibilty but they do both still count as wins. Were either of those really any easier than playing New Mexico, Idaho, Middle Tennesse, etc.?

 

[rrlbees]

So Marrone doesn't get credit for beating Akron... do you still count GRobs loss to Akron? How GRobs loss to Miami (OH)?
We were in fact one of the worst D-1 teams under GRob. We are now in the low end of BCS teams but not the worst under Marrone. Doesn't make it feel great but that's what it is.

2 years after losing to Akron by 14 and beating Northeastern by 9 we beat Akron by 26, Maine by 24 and Colgate by 35 with alot of the same players. We didn't need both IAA's to count for bowl eligibilty but they do both still count as wins. Were either of those really any easier than playing New Mexico, Idaho, Middle Tennesse, etc.?

Your post makes the argument that Marrone is a better coach than GRob. Not sure anyone was saying that.

 

[kcsu]

good post. Boise state Toledo Temple there are many programs that do better with much worse than Syracuse has to offer. We the bed this year and coaching was a major part of it. Im not asking for Dougs head and keep posting his positives but for Gosh sake posters does anyone really think that he did a good job coaching this year? No he sucked and the program took a big step backwards. Having said that im actully thinking we may have a good 12

Why? It doesn't always take 5 years to turn a program around to respectable. We went to a bowl last year and should have gone to one this year. Nobody will convince me we should have lost all 5 of those games. It's no longer just about "turning the program around", it's also about winning games.[/quo

 

[Cusefan95]

We went from a 6 win program to a 3 win program. Did it suck? Of course it did. Were we Kansas State before Bill Snyder was first hired? Far from it. You talk like we went from 1987 to 2005 overnight, that's the whole story, and it would take anyone at least 5 years to get back those 3 wins, even if they already exceeded it in 2 years.

It also seems like you've setup your 'Marrone didn't work out' contingency plan, by blaming this board for his inability to succeed.

This is what I don't get - when it's pointed out that it took guys like Beamer at VT more than five years to turn that program around, we're told the world is different now and everything moves faster, ya gotta turn it around quicker. So doesn't that mean the GRob era should be treated in dog years, too...and it's a hell of a lot closer to the 50 (or whatever) years of stink that was Kansas State football prior to Snyder?

An undefeated season in 1987 is as relevant to recruits as 1959. Hell, The McNabb years are as relevant to a recruit today as 1959. Which is to say, Not one damn bit.

I'm not sold that Marrone's the guy...but I'm 100% convinced that the people that would be celebrating the day he was fired will ultimately end up very, very disappointed in the results of that change. We're trending rapidly towards Duke level in football, wouldn't shock me if we battled them annually for hoops titles and avoiding the basement in football once we get to the ACC (regardless of who is coaching).

 

[gocraz4dasu]

Still can't believe Conley was fired for being too emotional

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Still can't believe Conley was fired for being too emotional

I believe Dan was fired for more than that. All the details nobody knows but as I have said for a month now, it's Doug's program, his arse on the line, he should be able to hire and fire assistants as he sees fit, not as people perceive assistants. Really not a smart post

 

[rosconey]

i think most of us have a bigger issue with making changes on one side and not the other-

it looks like marrone is laying blame on the season on defensive guys when we all know the offense was disgusting as any in su history the last 5 games and not much better the first 7

 

[IthacaBarrel]

i think most of us have a bigger issue with making changes on one side and not the other-

it looks like marrone is laying blame on the season on defensive guys when we all know the offense was disgusting as any in su history the last 5 games and not much better the first 7

Again, you are missing my point. Doug sees the total picture, day in day out. The offense is Marrone's system the defense Shafer's. They both need plenty of work. Now if Doug feels he has the right people in place to improve the offense and feels the consistency of the staff in place can get us there then so be it. Clearly, both he and Shafer were not happy with the D assistants for more than just being emotional, please. However, at the end of the day it's Doug who has two years left on this contract to establish some winning consistency. It is pretty clear that crab bucket central was mostly on the defensive side of the ball as well. I think everybody agrees we need some big help on special teams and to continue to improve our recruiting base and that is what I believe we will see with the two new hires. A guy like Hackett, love him or hate him, is basically Doug's assistant on many levels but I highly doubt he is given the freedom as most seasoned OC's, it's Doug's offense. In addition, Hackett has two years of establishing his recruiting base and I think we may see that pay some dividends this year, at least I hope but my point is if Doug feels he is doing his job then that is all that matters but pinning the offensive scheme on Hackett is crazy. Conley has had 4-5 years to set up a recruiting network at Syracuse and maybe that was an issue. Do you know how hard any of these guys work, are they doing everytjing that Marrone asks of them? No you don't nor do I. The coache's staff is his responsibility and its his JOB to do with that staff as he sees fit. I do agree with Bees, that Hackett''s or Marrone's play calling in the red zone left much to be desired. We also need to eliminate a lot of the stupid penalties and that is on the coaches.

We also need to find few skill guys that threaten the defense, we have none right now. Hoping we have one, but I doubt it.

 

[GoSU96]

Still can't believe Conley was fired for being too emotional

Where in the world do you get that from?

This place is nuts

 

[rosconey]

Again, you are missing my point. Doug sees the total picture, day in day out. The offense is Marrone's system the defense Shafer's. They both need plenty of work. Now if Doug feels he has the right people in place to improve the offense and feels the consistency of the staff in place can get us there then so be it. Clearly, both he and Shafer were not happy with the D assistants for more than just being emotional, please. However, at the end of the day it's Doug who has two years left on this contract to establish some winning consistency. It is pretty clear that crab bucket central was mostly on the defensive side of the ball as well. I think everybody agrees we need some big help on special teams and to continue to improve our recruiting base and that is what I believe we will see with the two new hires. A guy like Hackett, love him or hate him, is basically Doug's assistant on many levels but I highly doubt he is given the freedom as most seasoned OC's, it's Doug's offense. In addition, Hackett has two years of establishing his recruiting base and I think we may see that pay some dividends this year, at least I hope but my point is if Doug feels he is doing his job then that is all that matters but pinning the offensive scheme on Hackett is crazy. Conley has had 4-5 years to set up a recruiting network at Syracuse and maybe that was an issue. Do you know how hard any of these guys work, are they doing everytjing that Marrone asks of them? No you don't nor do I. The coache's staff is his responsibility and its his JOB to do with that staff as he sees fit. I do agree with Bees, that Hackett''s or Marrone's play calling in the red zone left much to be desired. We also need to eliminate a lot of the stupid penalties and that is on the coaches.

We also need to find few skill guys that threaten the defense, we have none right now. Hoping we have one, but I doubt it.

im just saying if he fired some offensive guys along with dan and brum it would have looked like he had the whole picture covered-

he has to make some serious offensive changes -either in style of play or coaching-what he has done these 3 seasons is as bad as what he who shall not be named did

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I see your point but GROB kept making changes and that didn't work either, 3 coordinators in 5 years, pistol, etc etc. You also have to remember that recruiting is also a big part of the game here. If you bring in new coaches, they damn well better be able to hit the ground running, recruiting. If he gets rid of Hackett, sure people feel better from February-September but at the end of the day, the system is Marrone's and it ain't changing a ton so he will either improve on it or bust, sure he will look at tweaking it but as I have said, the job, the program and his future are on his shoulders and I am sure if he thought a new offensive system was the answer or a few new assistants on offense were the answer then he would do that.

I run my own business and there isn't a day that goes by that if I felt there was a way I could improve it that I wouldn't take the steps to do so. I think people think that Marrone is sitting around nieve to the issues, and I don't think that is the case at all. Look, I certainly am not the guys biggest cheerleader far far from it, I have made that pretty clear but I think his cards are on the table and he isnt't changing much, the foundation for what he wants to do has been in place for 3 years, the next 2 will either prove him right or wrong.

 

[kingottoiii]

I see your point but GROB kept making changes and that didn't work either, 3 coordinators in 5 years, pistol, etc etc. You also have to remember that recruiting is also a big part of the game here. If you bring in new coaches, they damn well better be able to hit the ground running, recruiting. If he gets rid of Hackett, sure people feel better from February-September but at the end of the day, the system is Marrone's and it ain't changing a ton so he will either improve on it or bust, sure he will look at tweaking it but as I have said, the job, the program and his future are on his shoulders and I am sure if he thought a new offensive system was the answer or a few new assistants on offense were the answer then he would do that.

I run my own business and there isn't a day that goes by that if I felt there was a way I could improve it that I wouldn't take the steps to do so. I think people think that Marrone is sitting around nieve to the issues, and I don't think that is the case at all. Look, I certainly am not the guys biggest cheerleader far far from it, I have made that pretty clear but I think his cards are on the table and he isnt't changing much, the foundation for what he wants to do has been in place for 3 years, the next 2 will either prove him right or wrong.

I think he is naive to the issues. Look at our O staff it stinks. We have guys with little coaching experience, little ability to coach up players, and little ability to offer input to Marrone's gameplans. They are all a bunch of yes men. At least we have some good recruiters on that side. We need better coaching on the O side. If no changes are made that tells me Marrone does not realize that fact. We need O coaches who can offer some input to Marrone. Also the fact that Marrone thinks his system is the best way to run an O SCREAMS of naivety. You give him too much credit. We hired a HC with zero experience in running an O let alone an entire team. On top of that he had been out of the college game for nearly 10 years. If he were not an alumn he never would have gotten an interview, let alone the job. He was hired on blind faith. Hopefully he can learn on the job or we will be looking for a new HC.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Your post makes the argument that Marrone is a better coach than GRob. Not sure anyone was saying that.

My post was more to the fact that we were one of the worst D1 schools in the years prior to Marrone vs just one of the worst BCS d1 schools, and that 8 wins is 8 wins regardless who you played since we were losing those games 2 & 3 years prior.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think he is naive to the issues. Look at our O staff it stinks. We have guys with little coaching experience, little ability to coach up players, and little ability to offer input to Marrone's gameplans. They are all a bunch of yes men. At least we have some good recruiters on that side. We need better coaching on the O side. If no changes are made that tells me Marrone does not realize that fact. We need O coaches who can offer some input to Marrone. Also the fact that Marrone thinks his system is the best way to run an O SCREAMS of naivety. You give him too much credit. We hired a HC with zero experience in running an O let alone an entire team. On top of that he had been out of the college game for nearly 10 years. If he were not an alumn he never would have gotten an interview, let alone the job. He was hired on blind faith. Hopefully he can learn on the job or we will be looking for a new HC.

Using your logic, Doug is an idiot. You are entitled to your opinion. Like I said, I am not a big fan of what Marrone has done but this is his style and this is who he is. However, I think to sit and state that he is nieve to the problems on offense is a bit of a reach in my opinion. How do you know that Moore and Wheatley can't coach up players? How do you know this? How do you know that Moore and Wheatley and even Hackett aren't giving Marrone plenty of input? They have been around the game for 30 years, played for some great coaches, etc. I just think you make things too easy.

My point is this, Marrone is the head coach a few assistants, IMO won't make a huge difference especially when the head coach is the O coordinator for the most part. Marrone runs and NFL system, that isn't changing, he has surrounded from a coaching standpoint with NFL guys, coaches and ex players. 2 years we will see if he is right or wrong. Right now, he looks like his offense will not work. I agree with you, I would rather see a college system but expecting him to flip this thing upside down isn't going to happen.

I get that people don't like Marrone's philosophy on offense because I personally hate it as well but he has his belief in what works and will stick to it. Personally, I have serious doubts but changing now isn't the answer for Marrone, I don't think it will and will cost him his job but this is how he coaches.

 

[rrlbees]

My post was more to the fact that we were one of the worst D1 schools in the years prior to Marrone vs just one of the worst BCS d1 schools, and that 8 wins is 8 wins regardless who you played since we were losing those games 2 & 3 years prior.

Define one of the worst. GRobs last year we were 92nd of 117 D1's. Bad yes, one of the worst maybe, maybe not depends on how you define one of the worst. But first it was going to take a few years to get it back, then 4 years. Now we are on a 5 year plan. How did Temple do it? They were in as bad if not worse shape. 88th during GRobs last season and in the 100's before that in D1. They went from 88 to 68 to 63 to 42. We've gone from 92nd to 78 to 48 to 81st. I used Sagarin for lack of anything else not that his rankings are the end all but for comparison sake. One of the worst programs does not beat the Lville's and ND's. A bad one does have What loses like to Akron. The bottom line is that it is time to stop placing any problems in the program 3 years in on someone else and to the point of saying it will take 5 years because we were so far gone. The difference between 50 and 100 in any ranking is a break here or there. Nobody is asking for top 20 finishes out of the gate. SU being 5-2 and then losing their last 5 against teams they could have beaten and needing just ONE, has nothing to do with what GRob did or didn't do and everything to do with what this staff did or didn't do.

 

[Scooch]

All I want is our O to start scoring some ing points. I simply can't take more seasons of us trying to grind out 16-13 slugfests, especially when we're trying to do it with atrocious specials.

At least when you can score you always have a puncher's chance.

 

[Chip]

Define one of the worst. GRobs last year we were 92nd of 117 D1's. Bad yes, one of the worst maybe, maybe not depends on how you define one of the worst. But first it was going to take a few years to get it back, then 4 years. Now we are on a 5 year plan. How did Temple do it? They were in as bad if not worse shape. 88th during GRobs last season and in the 100's before that in D1. They went from 88 to 68 to 63 to 42. We've gone from 92nd to 78 to 48 to 81st. I used Sagarin for lack of anything else not that his rankings are the end all but for comparison sake. One of the worst programs does not beat the Lville's and ND's. A bad one does have What loses like to Akron. The bottom line is that it is time to stop placing any problems in the program 3 years in on someone else and to the point of saying it will take 5 years because we were so far gone. The difference between 50 and 100 in any ranking is a break here or there. Nobody is asking for top 20 finishes out of the gate. SU being 5-2 and then losing their last 5 against teams they could have beaten and needing just ONE, has nothing to do with what GRob did or didn't do and everything to do with what this staff did or didn't do.

Picture 2008 if Mike Williams didn't cheat on his finals. SU typically can't overcome things like that. When we had our most remarkable runs in the 90s, there were very few critical injuries or other meltdowns (like cheating on your finals). Conley in 1993 comes to mind, and look how that season worked out.