Connolly ACC preview

[syrBossHogg]

I wouldn't trade those VT or Clemson wins, I think those wins gave the players some big confidence and helped lead to the terrific 2018 season. What has been clear though is the roster management, especially on the offensive side of the ball, hasn't been good since that 2018 season. We have squandered the momentum from that season. We needed to have a winning 2019 season to show that we weren't going anywhere and to convince any skeptical donors to help fund the program.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I wouldn't trade those VT or Clemson wins, I think those wins gave the players some big confidence and helped lead to the terrific 2018 season.

If the team managed to go 6-6 those years, they would would have gone to bowl games. Is there any doubt that the state of the program would feel entirely different right now (in a good way)?

 

[SUskibum]

I understand, I just think people tend to overrate the significance of those individual moments of success. I don't think they indicate much about a program's potential.

I mean, those two wins, didn’t forshadow at all the best season in 2 decades that came just a year later?

Step 1: inherit a dumpster fire

Step 2: show occasional greatness in games (what’s possible in any one game) 2016, 2017

Step 3: show occasional greatness over a season (what’s possible in any one season) 2018

Step 4: show sustainable consistent greatness across seasons (>7 wins per year) TBD

These are all leading indicators to the next step of progress. We’re certainly not yet a finished product but we have absolutely showed signs of what’s possible under this coach/staff

 

[TheCusian]

Alright - got a second to complete this for Dino's tenure. It's kind of interesting.

2018	SRS	Score
Syracuse	12.14 (19th out of 130)	N/A
W vs #15 WVU	12.60 (15th out of 130)	34-18

We didn't lose a game to an average/bad team in 2018. We played an easier schedule than the years prior, at #57.

2019	SRS	Score
Syracuse	-2.79 (82nd out of 130)	N/A
L vs Maryland	-3.18 (88th out of 130)	20-63
L vs NC State	-7.82 (108th out of 130)	10-16
L vs PITT	0.60 (62nd out of 130)	20-27
W vs Duke	0.11 (66th out of 130)	49-6
L vs BC	-0.37 (70th out of 130)	27-58

We didn't have a win vs a good-great team. The Duke win is ok. We played the 73rd ranked schedule.

Like I said, throw out 2020. 2019 was a dumpster fire vs a much easier schedule than had been the norm.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I mean, those two wins, didn’t forshadow at all the best season in 2 decades that came just a year later?

Yes, the same way the 2018 Notre Dame game foreshadowed the 2019 season.

 

[TheCusian]

If the team managed to go 6-6 those years, they would would have gone to bowl games. Is there any doubt that the state of the program would feel entirely different right now (in a good way)?

That's *exactly* why context matters. We played really tough schedules those first two years and beat a good team in each. Had we scheduled the way our peers do, we're bowling - BUT - we're probably the same level (less than average).

Bowl games are the ultimate voodoo for CFB fans. Schedule yourself to a bowl game and it was a success. Play a tough schedule (LSU on the road!) and beat the number two team in the country - a blip.

 

[donniesyracuse]

That's *exactly* why context matters. We played really tough schedules those first two years and beat a good team in each. Had we scheduled the way our peers do, we're bowling - BUT - we're probably the same level (less than average).

Bowl games are the ultimate voodoo for CFB fans. Schedule yourself to a bowl game and it was a success. Play a tough schedule (LSU on the road!) and beat the number two team in the country - a blip.

Another important piece for context is the presence of Eric Dungey. Anyone know off-hand Babers' record at Syracuse when Dungey is the starting QB and when he isn't? If I wasn't working, I would take the time to figure it out.

 

[PhatOrange]

Another important piece for context is the presence of Eric Dungey. Anyone know off-hand Baber's record at Syracuse when Dungey is the starting QB and when he isn't? If I wasn't working, I would take the time to figure it out.

you dont remove the teams best player and then make measurements. While the staff didn't recruit Dungey they sure as heck coached him 3 of his 4 years here.

 

[721Comstock]

Another important piece for context is the presence of Eric Dungey. Anyone know off-hand Babers' record at Syracuse when Dungey is the starting QB and when he isn't? If I wasn't working, I would take the time to figure it out.

Yes.

Oh, you wanted more details?

OK - with Dungey: we don't suck!!

without Dungey :

 

[PhatOrange]

Those wins vs. VaTech and Clemson were great. The unfortunate thing is that I'm not sure we did anything with them, from a program-building standpoint. Dino got loads of press for his fiery post-game speeches, the wins were covered extensively... and then what? Recruiting is kinda better, I guess? But still not great. We seem to have totally wasted the momentum of 2017-18.

I mean, I get it. Dino has shown that he can knock off a top 25 team. I'm not diminishing that. But it doesn't mean much if that doesn't amount to something the program can build on, and as of now I'm not sure that we have. Fingers crossed this year he does.

We did do something with them though. We won 10 games in year 3 and now have guys getting drafted.

The biggest glitch I see was following up the 10 win season with 5-7. That was bad. Even after the Maryland thrashing had we not botched those NC State (lost by 6) and Pitt (lost by 7) games and go 7-5 people would've been ok with that after losing Dungey.

(and HCDB wasn't ok with 5-7 either he whacked both coordinators over it.)

 

[syrBossHogg]

If the team managed to go 6-6 those years, they would would have gone to bowl games. Is there any doubt that the state of the program would feel entirely different right now (in a good way)?

To me it doesn't because the trajectory of the program is still the same from 2016-18. The main problems have been replacing Dungey, the key OL and the key DL that graduated from that 2018 season.

 

[donniesyracuse]

you dont remove the teams best player and then make measurements. While the staff didn't recruit Dungey they sure as heck coached him 3 of his 4 years here.

You can do whatever you want. I think it's worth examining the extent to which his success was tied to an exceptional player he inherited. I welcome all context and nuance.

 

[money3189]

I understand, I just think people tend to overrate the significance of those individual moments of success. I don't think they indicate much about a program's potential.

You are what your record shows but you have to acknowledge when you beat a quality opponent. It does show what you can potentially do down the road. It indicates you have a formula that works, You just have to do everything else to make sure you can deliver that product on a consistent basis.

 

[721Comstock]

We did do something with them though. We won 10 games in year 3 and now have guys getting drafted.

The biggest glitch I see was following up the 10 with season with 5-7. That was bad. Even after the Maryland thrashing had we not botched those NC State (lost by 6) and Pitt (lost by 7) games and go 7-5 people would've been ok with that after losing Dungey.

Yes, this.

Last year - pandemic * Whatevs.

But agree 144% - 2019 coulda/woulda/shoulda been at least 6-6.
As you said, it was there for the taking.

Let's hope we get off to a fast, clean start to this season, so the staff and players can see and feel some success, and then keep it rolling.

 

[donniesyracuse]

You are what your record shows

I don't agree with that idea at all.

 

[donniesyracuse]

The biggest glitch I see was following up the 10 win season with 5-7. That was bad. Even after the Maryland thrashing had we not botched those NC State (lost by 6) and Pitt (lost by 7) games and go 7-5 people would've been ok with that after losing Dungey.

Also could have lost to Wake Forest and gone 4 - 8.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes, this.

Last year - pandemic * Whatevs.

But agree 144% - 2019 coulda/woulda/shoulda been at least 6-6.
As you said, it was there for the taking.

Let's hope we get off to a fast, clean start to this season, so the staff and players can see and feel some success, and then keep it rolling.

I can come around to the idea that had we clawed out 6 wins and a bowl appearance in 2019 that we still could have gone 1-10 last season with how crazy everything was.

Edited to add: Which is why I still maintain that with this roster against this schedule we absolutely should expect to be bowl eligible this season.

 

[money3189]

I don't agree with that idea at all.

A person who doesnt follow SU football sees their 4-8 record. What do you think their impression of Syracuse is for that season? You can keep talking about moral victories until you are blue in the face. It doesnt change the fact that 4 out of 5 seasons you have won 5 or less games.

 

[donniesyracuse]

A person who doesnt follow SU football sees their 4-8 record. What do you think their impression of Syracuse is for that season?

Right, that is their impression. I am interested in how good a team actually is.

 

[Scooch]

I can come around to the idea that had we clawed out 6 wins and a bowl appearance in 2019 that we still could have gone 1-10 last season with how crazy everything was.

Edited to add: Which is why I still maintain that with this roster against this schedule we absolutely should expect to be bowl eligible this season.

Agree that this schedule is tailor-made for even a mediocre team to get at least 6 wins.

I'm not at all confident that we have even a mediocre roster though. I hope so.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Agree that this schedule is tailor-made for even a mediocre team to get at least 6 wins.

I'm not at all confident that we have even a mediocre roster though. I hope so.

I don't know, with so many of the DL guys coming back and the expectation that the offensive line has nowhere to go but up, I'm pretty bullish. We do have some talent. I also think too the boost to QB depth means we could have a starter go down and still compete. That hasn't been the case the past couple of seasons.

 

[money3189]

Right, that is their impression. I am interested in how good a team actually is.

Of course" WE" do because we are fans. We follow them, attend games, watch them on TV and spend countless hours on message boards. We dont do that for all the other teams in Ncaa. I dont have time to watch every team and know the ends and outs of their success and non success. I watch a lot of ACC and SEC ball. If a middle of a pack pac 12 team goes 3-8. I dont care why they struggled or how good they could have been. I just know they lost 8 games.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Of course" WE" do because we are fans. We follow them, attend games, watch them on TV and spend countless hours on message boards. We dont do that for all the other teams in Ncaa. I dont have time to watch every team and know the ends and outs of their success and non success. I watch a lot of ACC and SEC ball. If a middle of a pack pac 12 team goes 3-8. I dont care why they struggled or how good they could have been. I just know they lost 8 games.

Why are you so concerned about how other fans perceive your team?

 

[TheCusian]

You can do whatever you want. I think it's worth examining the extent to which his success was tied to an exceptional player he inherited. I welcome all context and nuance.

I think his record with Dungey is better than without. Shafer too. What would Marrone be without Nassib or P without McNabb?

I don’t give a lot of weight to inheriting a player or not. It’s what you do with what you have. I think it’s more fair to hold him accountable for the lack of a good backup than it is for walking into a program with Dungey.

 

[money3189]

Why are you so concerned about how other fans perceive your team?

Dont try to change the narractive lol. You said records doesnt indicate what type of team you are. Ive never heard that ever. Please explain yourself so I can get a better understanding of your thought process.