Convince me this is not our best lineup

[Brooky03]

^This^ JB has said many times that there is little difference between the 2 and 3 on offense. This is true with most college offense systems, especially if the PG is competent. Is AG an ideal 2? No. Can he play the 2 in JB's system? Yes, without question.

I’ve heard Boeheim say there is no difference between the 3 and the 4, not the 2 and the 3.

 

[Scooch]

In both plays he bounced the ball two whole times. The first he went around a screen and made a nice pass. The second, he beat a poor close out from a forward and gathered to prevent the guard from ripping the ball from him.

I’m talking about him in half court with a 6’3” guard in his face with more foot speed and quicker hands. Guys every ACC team has. Buddy doesn’t beat those guys to the rim but he also doesn’t let them just pick his pocket at will. AG will get his pocket picked or pick up his dribble too early and put the offense into scramble mode.

Why does this not happen now when he plays the 3? I don't understand what would be different on O if we rolled out a 1-2-3 of Kadary, AG and, say, Newton in terms of how the D would play us, and how AG would function.

 

[MikeSU02]

With the emphasis on the perimeter game in today’s NBA, SF’s have gotten shorter. The average SF height in the NBA last season was 6’6.4”. He does need to work on his ballhandling to have a real shot in the NBA. He’ll have to do that in practice because right now we can’t afford to let him try to figure that out in games.

As it stands now, he’d be exclusively a catch and shoot, 3 and D player. He has the athleticism and physicality to defend most SFs at the next level.

3 and D players make $18 million a year now in the NBA.

In what world is Buddy's handle that good?

AG turns the ball over because he's auditioning for the NBA and is out of the offense, not because he's Philip Seymour Hoffman in Along Came Polly.

What are we arguing here?

Q, AG and Kadary are on NBA radars. Buddy is not.

 

[Bayside44]

Buddy is one less turnover per game than AG, similar minutes, more usage from BB. The UVa mess didn't help Buddy clocking in at 5 TOs.

 

[Brooky03]

Why does this not happen now when he plays the 3? I don't understand what would be different on O if we rolled out a 1-2-3 of Kadary, AG and, say, Newton in terms of how the D would play us, and how AG would function.

He gets his pocket picked against slower 3’s now. So it does happen. It will happen more against quicker defenders.

 

[Brooky03]

3 and D players make $18 million a year now in the NBA.

In what world is Buddy's handle that good?

AG turns the ball over because he's auditioning for the NBA and is out of the offense, not because he's Philip Seymour Hoffman in Along Came Polly.

What are we arguing here?

Q, AG and Kadary are on NBA radars. Buddy is not.

Calling him a 3 and D player wasn’t a knock against him lol. Idk what their salaries have to do with a anything.

Buddy’s handle isn’t exceptional. It’s probably not even above average. AG’s handle is average, at the very best, for a Forward and really bad for a Guard.

AG isn’t on NBA radar as a SG.

 

[FireballPhil]

How much ball handling does Buddy do?
Marek is our second best ball handler unless both Joe and Kadary are on the floor.

Buddy doesn’t handle the ball. The idea AG can’t play the SG is just because JB doesn’t want to take Buddy out if he doesn’t have to.

By making AG a forward it means only one guard has to sit and Buddy isn’t sitting much.
AG can play the SG position if one of KR/JG and Marek are on the floor.

The bigger issue isn't ball handling, it is rebounds. Taking AG off the 3 and making him a 2 could severely curb his rebounding prowess. Marek is a glue guy, but hasn't really ever proven himself outside of 12' from the basket. Most European guys are known to be able to shoot from deep, but you rarely see this from him, and it is a shame. He essentially is the same as Pace was when he was here, and who would you rather have? For me I would take Josh hands own. The only thing Marek does even a little better is passing. But just my opinion.

 

[Alsacs]

In both plays he bounced the ball two whole times. The first he went around a screen and made a nice pass. The second, he beat a poor close out from a forward and gathered to prevent the guard from ripping the ball from him.

I’m talking about him in half court with a 6’3” guard in his face with more foot speed and quicker hands. Guys every ACC team has. Buddy doesn’t beat those guys to the rim but he also doesn’t let them just pick his pocket at will. AG will get his pocket picked or pick up his dribble too early and put the offense into scramble mode.

Griffin can play SG.
This hill you are on is your opinion.
We can’t make you change that. It doesn’t mean you are right though

 

[Alsacs]

The bigger issue isn't ball handling, it is rebounds. Taking AG off the 3 and making him a 2 could severely curb his rebounding prowess. Marek is a glue guy, but hasn't really ever proven himself outside of 12' from the basket. Most European guys are known to be able to shoot from deep, but you rarely see this from him, and it is a shame. He essentially is the same as Pace was when he was here, and who would you rather have? For me I would take Josh hands own. The only thing Marek does even a little better is passing. But just my opinion.

Then why did Buddy play SF when Griffin was benched against Northeastern.
Buddy has gotten more time at SF than Griffin has gotten at SG and Buddy can’t rebound.

These arguments just defend the status quo.
Which isn’t working. Which is why people are opining such,

 

[MikeSU02]

Calling him a 3 and D player wasn’t a knock against him lol. Idk what their salaries have to do with a anything.

Buddy’s handle isn’t exceptional. It’s probably not even above average. AG’s handle is average, at the very best, for a Forward and really bad for a Guard.

AG isn’t on NBA radar as a SG.

The salaries show how valuable that is in the NBA.

He will be looked at as a 2/3.

He is on the NBA radar.

Again, Buddy is not.

 

[FireballPhil]

I am not going to waste anymore energy on this.

I just find it unbelievable for anyone to say a player can play SF but can’t play SG.
When the positions are basically the same thing in our offense.
The only difference is on defense because of the zone.

Offensively they are the same.

Whether they are actually the same or not is kind of irrelevant. If Buddy can slide to the 3 on occasion, AG should also be able to slide to the 2 on occasion. Of course if we get a couple players back it all becomes moot anyhow.

 

[FireballPhil]

Then why did Buddy play SF when Griffin was benched against Northeastern.
Buddy has gotten more time at SF than Griffin has gotten at SG and Buddy can’t rebound.

These arguments just defend the status quo.
Which isn’t working. Which is why people are opining such,

read my other post. I specifically said there is no reason if Buddy can play the 3, Alan can't play the two. Personally I kind of think they both should be slotted at the 3, but we also have others that should be playing at that slot too. This is a tough roster to manage.

 

[Bayside44]

Then why did Buddy play SF when Griffin was benched against Northeastern.
Buddy has gotten more time at SF than Griffin has gotten at SG and Buddy can’t rebound.

These arguments just defend the status quo.
Which isn’t working. Which is why people are opining such,

AG had 3 turnovers in 24 minutes, Buddy has 1 in 33 in that game. That's why (don't argue with me that's the answer JB will tell you).

 

[Scooch]

He gets his pocket picked against slower 3’s now. So it does happen. It will happen more against quicker defenders.

Again, no one is saying that AG should play 35 minutes a game at the 2.

The idea that he can't play there, for a few minutes, for a specific reason, is nonsense.

Look at the video Alsacs posted. Second clip is of him breaking the ankle of some guard defending him up top.

 

[JOC44]

Sidbe Marek Quincy Alan and Kadary.

Not enough shooting. A good team really needs two good three point shooters and a third guy who can keep the defense honest from the three point line.

 

[Brooky03]

Griffin can play SG.
This hill you are on is your opinion.
We can’t make you change that. It doesn’t mean you are right though

My question posed to Illinois fans on a national board when I heard Griffin was coming here: What kind of player are we getting?

Illinois fans (3 of them): Excellent scorer, good athlete that lacks effort if his shot isn’t falling. Don’t expect him to dribble, it gets ugly.

 

[Alsacs]

AG had 3 turnovers in 24 minutes, Buddy has 1 in 33 in that game. That's why (don't argue with me that's the answer JB will tell you).

That answer insults the intelligence of any person who watches basketball(I know you aren’t saying it for the record).

JB using an excuse to justify his decision doesn’t make his decision correct and that’s the problem. I’d rather have 1 more turnover per game if that results in made shots and better defense.

That makes his previous comments about spacing bogus then.

 

[Brooky03]

The salaries show how valuable that is in the NBA.

He will be looked at as a 2/3.

He is on the NBA radar.

Again, Buddy is not.

Who has been saying he’s not on NBA radar? Who is saying Buddy is the better player?

Lol. You’re coming in hot with points unrelated to any of my arguments.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Buddy is one less turnover per game than AG, similar minutes, more usage from BB. The UVa mess didn't help Buddy clocking in at 5 TOs.

Yeah. He’s third on the team in Assists and has a 2/1 A/TO ratio.

Griffin has a negative assist to TO ratio.

You have to go all the way back to Paul Harris in 2008 to the last time a non guard had the most turnovers on the team and Griffin really doesn’t handle the ball that much except in the half court.

 

[Alsacs]

My question posed to Illinois fans on a national board when I heard Griffin was coming here: What kind of player are we getting?

Illinois fans (3 of them): Excellent scorer, good athlete that lacks effort if his shot isn’t falling. Don’t expect him to dribble, it gets ugly.

That doesn’t mean he can’t play SG which is what you are saying.
When he can and did at Illinois.

 

[Brooky03]

Again, no one is saying that AG should play 35 minutes a game at the 2.

The idea that he can't play there, for a few minutes, for a specific reason, is nonsense.

Look at the video Alsacs posted. Second clip is of him breaking the ankle of some guard defending him up top.

What do we gain from a more turnover prone guard?

Defense?

 

[MikeSU02]

Who has been saying he’s not on NBA radar? Who is saying Buddy is the better player?

Lol. You’re coming in hot with points unrelated to any of my arguments.

You said he cant play the 2. You said he cant dribble.

Im saying hes on the NBA radar as a 2/3.

Im saying that I believe he can play the 2 and also dribble.

I think if we're in agreement that hes on the NBA radar as a wing player, then his ability to dribble at Syracuse is good enough.

 

[Bayside44]

That answer insults the intelligence of any person who watches basketball(I know you aren’t saying it for the record).

JB using an excuse to justify his decision doesn’t make his decision correct and that’s the problem. I’d rather have 1 more turnover per game if that results in made shots and better defense.

That makes his previous comments about spacing bogus then.

Basketball coaches on every level have a massive irrational hatred of turnovers, esp unforced, and double esp if they go the other way. (I don't remember this game in any real way as to what AG did but do sorta remember Buddy being in there for ball control and he basically knew the defensive rotations).

JB coaches these games like it's the last, so that's why he did it.

 

[crzdsufan]

Alan can't play the 2.

Our best lineup is probably this:

Kadary
Buddy
Alan
Q
Sidibe (w/ knees)

This assumes Sidibe will get into foul trouble in the first 8 minutes.

 

[Brooky03]

You said he cant play the 2. You said he cant dribble.

Im saying hes on the NBA radar as a 2/3.

Im saying that I believe he can play the 2 and also dribble.

I think if we're in agreement that hes on the NBA radar as a wing player, then his ability to dribble at Syracuse is good enough.

For a Forward, it’s good enough.