cooney 3 pt stats (outlier city)

[Coach Orange]

Fair went from being perhaps the most consistent and efficient SU player ever, to the opposite.

That's because he was asked to fill a role this year for which his skill set isn't suited.

This is one of the drawbacks to running a set-play offense where many of the plays remain the same season to season. There will be seasons where a player that is a round peg is forced into a square hole. This is what happened to CJ this season.

 

[rrlbees]

If I was grading the Syracuse players for 2013-2014 Ennis gets an A= 4.0 GPA carried the pressure of a Frosh PG and while he wasn't perfect we had no backup and he carried the team as the leader with the ball.( I give the CALI award to Ennis as well) Fair gets a B+= 3.67 GPA he was the option 1 by default because we had no other option 1. He is a great player when he isn't the focus of the defense, but the kid was tough as nails for the most part, but struggled somewhat and didn't play his best after we struggled. Grant gets a B = 3.00 GPA he improved from his freshman year, but pretty much did all his scoring with 1 spin move, or off free throws or put backs. His jump shot needs to improve, but he was a key cog. Cooney gets a C+= 2.33 GPA he played extraordinary well in 6 games, and wasn't consistent enough at the SG position and gave us a consistent outside threat. Kid has room to improve, but I am giving him what he earned. Rak/Keita/Gbinije/rest of the team get incompletes.

You sure ignore facts. B+ for CJs shooting ?

 

[EnnisEnvy]

Shooters catch the ball where it's passed. Especially in curls. I didn't see anything near the number of curls last night by heslip or anyone as we do. Lots of catch and shoot straight up and stepping into the shot.

Cooney has a bad habit of bringing the ball down. He does this almost every time he gets the ball and doesn't immediately go up for a shot. I believe this is one thing that needs to be corrected in the off season. He could significantly improve his offensive game by adding a dribble drive stop and pop element. With his good elevation and jump shot he could have a great mid range game.

 

[Coach Orange]

Syracuse's offense this year (and most of last year) has just been painful to watch. You can blame it on guys not making shots, but there needed to be more movement (both with the ball and with the players), less reliance on individual penetration. "

I've been saying this for several seasons--the team needs better ball movement and player movement.

It is amazing how these two fundamental characteristics help players make more shots. Part of the reason for this, of course, is that they create better, easier shots more often than not.

 

[rrlbees]

Cooney has a bad habit of bringing the ball down. He does this almost every time he gets the ball and doesn't immediately go up for a shot. I believe this is one thing that needs to be corrected in the off season. He could significantly improve his offensive game by adding a dribble drive stop and pop element. With his good elevation and jump shot he could have a great mid range game.

Don't disagree with that but I'm talking about shooting and when he does what you describe it's not when he receives the pass and shoots.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Trevor Cooney was 26-54 against mid-majors for 48% (WMU and Dayton Included)

Trevor Cooney was 64-186 against Majors for 34.5%

The 16 games he shot lower than 33%

0-4 Fordham
1-5 Colgate
1-5 Baylor
0-3 St Johns
2-12 Miami
2-12 UNC
2-8 Pitt
0-5 Wake
1-6 BC
0-3 Duke
2-10 Maryland
3-10 Virginia
1-8 G Tech
2-8 FL State
1-6 NC State
0-4 Dayton

18-109 for 16.5 Percent

In the 18 games he shot over 33%

7-8 Cornell
2-5 St Francis
5-11 Minnesota
5-8 Cal
5-9 Indiana
5-9 Binghamton
5-6 High Point
5-8 Villanova
2-5 Eastern Mich
3-8 VPI
2-5 BC
3-6 Miami
2-2 Duke
9-12 Notre Dame
3-7 Clemson
3-8 Pitt
2-6 NC State
4-8 WMU

72-131 for 55 %

Everyone wants to say Cooney stunk since Notre Dame, but the analysis says Cooney's slump began with the second Boston College game (our First Loss). That was the first game he shot less than 33% from three which equals 50 percent from 2. Over the last 9 games he shot 14-63 from three for 22 %. In our six losses he shot 6-37 for 16%. A better performance from Cooney in any of our 6 losses could of saved us, but we shouldn't have to rely on one player from three to save us.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If I was grading the Syracuse players for 2013-2014
Ennis gets an A= 4.0 GPA carried the pressure of a Frosh PG and while he wasn't perfect we had no backup and he carried the team as the leader with the ball.( I give the CALI award to Ennis as well)

Fair gets a A-= 3.67 GPA he was the option 1 by default because we had no other option 1. He is a great player when he isn't the focus of the defense, but the kid was tough as nails for the most part, but struggled somewhat and didn't play his best after we struggled.

Grant gets a B = 3.00 GPA he improved from his freshman year, but pretty much did all his scoring with 1 spin move, or off free throws or put backs. His jump shot needs to improve, but he was a key cog.

Cooney gets a C+= 2.33 GPA he played extraordinary well in 6 games, and wasn't consistent enough at the SG position and gave us a consistent outside threat. Kid has room to improve, but I am giving him what he earned.

Rak/Keita/Gbinije/rest of the team get incompletes.

I don't think anyone get's close to an A this season. Kris Joseph and Brandon Triche were hammered on this board as Seniors for being inconsistent. Their teams got further than Fair's did (Triche 2nd in scoring last year, Joseph first his year). If anything I'm more dissappointed in CJ than I am cooney, grant, or ennis. CJ scored 20 against Michigan in the final four, and was receiving serious NBA attention for a bit. Not to mention his rebounding fell off this year compared to the prior two years.

Edit: If you are going to give CJ a B plus for what his role was this year, than Brandon Triche was way more important to this team last year than anybody thought, because most of last year he was option number 1.

 

[Fly Rodder]

CJ scored 20 against Michigan in the final four, and was receiving serious NBA attention for a bit. Not to mention his rebounding fell off this year compared to the prior two years.

His total rebounding fell off slightly because he was taking more shots than any SU player since Carmelo. Which explains why his offensive rebounding % declined, but his defensive rebounding % went up.

CJ was the most complete offensive threat on this team. Each and every defense knew it and they double and triple teamed him into taking poor shots.

There were a lot of things wrong with SU's offense (overall). On an efficiency basis, they were quite good, early on when shots were falling, but once defenses figured them out (quickly) they struggled while playing an intentionally slow place. So much of it though was that they had zero post game and one good 3-pt shooter who either can't create his own shot or SU couldn't get him clean looks. The result was that everyone packed the paint and forced CJ to make mid range jumpers with 8-15 seconds on the shot clock.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Can you also grade the other players shooting game by game and also include a curve based on impact? I know you want to put the whole season ending swoon on one player but that is as narrow sighted as it gets.

You get really hung up on this, but here's the thing - when other guys shoot poorly, they do other stuff (CJ and Grant board, Ennis assists, etc.). When Cooney shoots poorly, we don't really get much else from him. So, yeah, it's under a microscope moreso than other players.

 

[Dave85]

I've been saying this for several seasons--the team needs better ball movement and player movement.

It is amazing how these two fundamental characteristics help players make more shots. Part of the reason for this, of course, is that they create better, easier shots more often than not.

The double picks were cool but teams figured it out after a few games. They need something that's more undefined but creates movement, spacing, mismatches, or open looks. Motion offenses are basic stuff. Maybe this team just wasn't ready for complicated offense because they were working so much on defense. I don't know. I wish I knew what the outline was for each practice. I think Donna hit it right on the nail, "less reliance on individual penetration". The team had basically 4 offensive plays all season: Cooney, CJ, Ennis, and Grant.

 

[rrlbees]

You get really hung up on this, but here's the thing - when other guys shoot poorly, they do other stuff (CJ and Grant board, Ennis assists, etc.). When Cooney shoots poorly, we don't really get much else from him. So, yeah, it's under a microscope moreso than other players.

Cooney's role isn't to get offensive rebounds and I don't think he does to bad on defensive rebounding for a guard. As to assists...pffft...nobody's going to get many on this team when the ball is dominated by 2 players. This wasn't a motion offense with a lot of passing. It was an ISO offense. CJ gets the ball it's staying with him. Makes for less opportunities for others to even get an assist. Like someone else said, he took the most shots since Melo. Ennis was a ball dominant player too, which wasn't a bad thing. The offense had a lot less possessions than usual too by design. Some of you look at things in a vacuum.

 

[Dave85]

Fair enough I am not going to tell anybody to change their opinions on something that is completely subjective. I think Cooney stunk for the last 2 months and if JB played Gbinije to start the 2nd half on Saturday I think we have a better chance to win.

I will not disrespect your opinion. I somewhat agree with JB playing G more when TC is not hitting shots.

 

[rrlbees]

I will not disrespect your opinion. I somewhat agree with JB playing G more when TC is not hitting shots.

When we played teams that played both zone and m2m defense, JB preferred Cooney regardless of shooting slumps. Those teams, like WMU did, played m2m when Cooney was in and zone when G was in. With this group, JB would rather play against a M2M for obvious reasons. Other teams know how good a shooter Cooney is.

 

[Alsacs]

You sure ignore facts. B+ for CJs shooting ?

C.J. Fair had the burden of being the leading scorer of this team. Cooney was expected to stretch the floor as a SG. He did not stretch the floor consistently as he was easily defended. Fair was better than Cooney.

 

[Millhouse]

Cooney's role isn't to get offensive rebounds

resisting the urge to put it in caps in the largest font

his role is to make 3 pointers!


most games he just doesn't. enough of this feast or famine .

 

[Alsacs]

Trevor Cooney was 26-54 against mid-majors for 48% (WMU and Dayton Included)

Trevor Cooney was 64-186 against Majors for 34.5%

The 16 games he shot lower than 33%

0-4 Fordham
1-5 Colgate
1-5 Baylor
0-3 St Johns
2-12 Miami
2-12 UNC
2-8 Pitt
0-5 Wake
1-6 BC
0-3 Duke
2-10 Maryland
3-10 Virginia
1-8 G Tech
2-8 FL State
1-6 NC State
0-4 Dayton

18-109 for 16.5 Percent

In the 18 games he shot over 33%

7-8 Cornell
2-5 St Francis
5-11 Minnesota
5-8 Cal
5-9 Indiana
5-9 Binghamton
5-6 High Point
5-8 Villanova
2-5 Eastern Mich
3-8 VPI
2-5 BC
3-6 Miami
2-2 Duke
9-12 Notre Dame
3-7 Clemson
3-8 Pitt
2-6 NC State
4-8 WMU

72-131 for 55 %

Everyone wants to say Cooney stunk since Notre Dame, but the analysis says Cooney's slump began with the second Boston College game (our First Loss). That was the first game he shot less than 33% from three which equals 50 percent from 2. Over the last 9 games he shot 14-63 from three for 22 %. In our six losses he shot 6-37 for 16%. A better performance from Cooney in any of our 6 losses could of saved us, but we shouldn't have to rely on one player from three to save us.

Good stats so thank you. I just think if Patterson and Johnson were completely not going to play than G should have been given more minutes. Cooney playing 30mpg+ without hitting his shot hurts our offense more. G put the ball on the floor and was able to drive it easier than Cooney if he couldn't make 3pt shots.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Cooney's role isn't to get offensive rebounds and I don't think he does to bad on defensive rebounding for a guard. As to assists...pffft...nobody's going to get many on this team when the ball is dominated by 2 players. This wasn't a motion offense with a lot of passing. It was an ISO offense. CJ gets the ball it's staying with him. Makes for less opportunities for others to even get an assist. Like someone else said, he took the most shots since Melo. Ennis was a ball dominant player too, which wasn't a bad thing. The offense had a lot less possessions than usual too by design. Some of you look at things in a vacuum.

It feels like you're saying that with his role being what it is and the way the offense is structured, he isn't asked to do anything but shoot, but if you're critical of his shooting it's unfair because other guys that are asked to do other things shoot too.

 

[Millhouse]

Good stats so thank you. I just think if Patterson and Johnson were completely not going to play than G should have been given more minutes. Cooney playing 30mpg+ without hitting his shot hurts our offense more. G put the ball on the floor and was able to drive it easier than Cooney if he couldn't make 3pt shots.

gbinije hurt himself by having his own horrible shooting stretch.

boeheim rode him as long as he could

he didn't want cooney back in there. when grant fouled out you could read his lips clear as day GOD DAMMIT JEREMI... seethes for a few seconds... ok now i gotta talk to the team

 

[Cusefan0307]

Good stats so thank you. I just think if Patterson and Johnson were completely not going to play than G should have been given more minutes. Cooney playing 30mpg+ without hitting his shot hurts our offense more. G put the ball on the floor and was able to drive it easier than Cooney if he couldn't make 3pt shots.

Loved the way Gbinije played on Saturday until his shoes came off. I think he starts next year (at the 3) even if Ennis and Grant are back. I will say watching Wichita play offense yesterday against Kentucky was a thing of beauty. Ron Baker, Wichitas 2 (who i think Trevor can become), moves quite well without the ball and doesn't just move the the 3pt line. VanFleet actually did a really good job finding him in other positions to score.

 

[rrlbees]

C.J. Fair had the burden of being the leading scorer of this team. Cooney was expected to stretch the floor as a SG. He did not stretch the floor consistently as he was easily defended. Fair was better than Cooney.

I didn't say Cooney was better than Fair. That's you putting words in my mouth. But the CJ stats I posted above don't warrant a B+. Not close. CJ was also suppose to be that other threat on the wing to balance the floor.

 

[two3zone]

agreed... Btw, is it just me or does Cooney always catch the ball funny and low? Watching heslip last night he was all catch and shoot, Cooney is in some odd 3 point stance.

Considering he only gets the ball from a pass from somebody on the perimeter he's probably going to start low from catching the ball at his side.

If we passed it from the inside out he would be getting a lot of chest high passes which would probably help him greatly.

 

[Chip]

Was I the only one who became increasingly angry with every made 3 pointer yesterday by anyone?

Talk about outliers... O...for...10

 

[Alsacs]

I didn't say Cooney was better than Fair. That's you putting words in my mouth. But the CJ stats I posted above don't warrant a B+. Not close. CJ was also suppose to be that other threat on the wing to balance the floor.

C.J. Fair earned his B+ he was forced to take a lot of shots because Grant can't hit a jumper, Cooney was covered, Ennis was playing within the offense, and the C position didn't give us anything. Fair was above average he wasn't an A, but he gets a B+ based on his play.

 

[OttoMets]

It is not all his fault, but Cooney's struggles would be the number one reason for our problems in our half court offense.

If teams were locking on him I don't know why we didn't try to get him shots in transition before defenses were set a la James Southerland. Cooney has 2 more years, but the SG position killed our offense the most IMO. Fair, Grant, Ennis all struggled in games as well, but they weren't as bad as Cooney I believe. Cooney never put the ball on the floor like Gbinije did against Dayton.

I think a lot of the critical posts (not just yours, but all of ours) are dancing around a blasphemous truth:

Our point guard stopped getting the ball to players in places in which they could be most effective. That hurt us.

Think about it. Cooney wasn't getting good looks very often (in transition or otherwise). Fair spent half the year catching the ball 18 feet from the hoop with no place to go. Grant couldn't muster any decent touches for long stretches (including the whole Dayton game). Many of us think Christmas was underused (after an effective start on Saturday, we ignored him).

The freshman point guard was good at eliminating negative plays, but he spent the bulk of February and March unable to make positive plays (other than his own drives to the hoop). He became Ryan Nassib.


Oh, and I agree with your last point about Cooney. It'd help if he could get to the rim and score in the half-court; our ideal shooting guard does a lot more than shoot. Jason Cipolla and Andy Rautins couldn't really do that, but they played with a lot of other scorers. This team needed more from Cooney and he couldn't provide it. I trust he'll be more well-rounded next season.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't think anyone get's close to an A this season. Kris Joseph and Brandon Triche were hammered on this board as Seniors for being inconsistent. Their teams got further than Fair's did (Triche 2nd in scoring last year, Joseph first his year). If anything I'm more dissappointed in CJ than I am cooney, grant, or ennis. CJ scored 20 against Michigan in the final four, and was receiving serious NBA attention for a bit. Not to mention his rebounding fell off this year compared to the prior two years.

Edit: If you are going to give CJ a B plus for what his role was this year, than Brandon Triche was way more important to this team last year than anybody thought, because most of last year he was option number 1.

Triche was a B+ last year, he wasn't great, but his 1st half at Louisville last year was special against the future NC. Triche wasn't dependent on just 3 pt shooting he struggled from 3 pt range, but he could score other ways unlike Cooney.