Cooney expectations

[br801]

GMAC is a darn good authority on Cooney's ability to shoot.
If you ever watch the early pre-game warm-ups (arriving an hour before game time), you can see what GMAC means. Cooney has quick elevation and perfect form. He is, by far, our most accurate jump shooter (in practice). He is athletic and tall enough to be useful in our zone. Can he go for 20 minutes per game, 8 pts average? Yes.

Based on the observations of GMac and others who have watched him in practice, Cooney may well turn out to be a tremendous shooter at the college level. Still, he has yet to do it game situations.

As for watching a guy shoot in pre-game warm-ups, it's much like a watching a golfer strike the ball on the range. The real test comes in a game or on the course, and what you see in warm-ups doesn't automatically translate to those situations.

 

[cuseincincy]

Based on the observations of GMac and others who have watched him in practice, Cooney may well turn out to be a tremendous shooter at the college level. Still, he has yet to do it game situations.

As for watching a guy shoot in pre-game warm-ups, it's much like a watching a golfer strike the ball on the range. The real test comes in a game or on the course, and what you see in warm-ups doesn't automatically translate to those situations.

I agree about the warmup shooting, though I watched him drop 7 in a row without touching the net...rimmed one in and out...and then made 3 more. The kid can shoot. But I also think the opinion is that he is untested or has to "do it in a game" is a little off base. People are forgetting that he was on the Team USA U-18 team in 2010 and was the 3rd guard, 5th leading scorer on a team that included Kyrie Irving, Austin Rivers, Vander Blue, Abdul Gaddy, Quincy Miller and LeBryan Nash among others. Add that to practice time against a top 5 team with the 4 guards we had last year I think it is fairly safe to say Cooney won't wilt under game pressure., more like explode when the pressure is released! As far as Triche is concerned...he will be a team leader but he is what he is. Projecting him to play 35+ per game minutes like some have is silly. He's not that type of senior leader. And even if Mookie is back he will continue to be a non-factor unless someone gets hurt.

 

[bnoro]

GMAC is a darn good authority on Cooney's ability to shoot.
If you ever watch the early pre-game warm-ups (arriving an hour before game time), you can see what GMAC means. Cooney has quick elevation and perfect form. He is, by far, our most accurate jump shooter (in practice). He is athletic and tall enough to be useful in our zone. Can he go for 20 minutes per game, 8 pts average? Yes.

No. Southerland is.

 

[br801]

As far as Triche is concerned...he will be a team leader but he is what he is. Projecting him to play 35+ per game minutes like some have is silly. He's not that type of senior leader. And even if Mookie is back he will continue to be a non-factor unless someone gets hurt.

JB has a history of riding his most talented and/or most experienced players when his alternatives are limited or relatively unproven. Triche is both talented and experienced, so I would expect JB to have him on the court as much as possible. MCW has exhibited tremendous point guard skills and has a year of game experience within the system, so JB will likely ride him as well. Cooney will see a lot of minutes against weaker teams and in blowouts, but JB is likely to limit his time against better competition. This is not a knock on Cooney, who I believe will be an outstanding player here, but just my expectation based on how JB has coached his teams historically.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

JB has a history of riding his most talented and/or most experienced players when his alternatives are limited or relatively unproven. Triche is both talented and experienced, so I would expect JB to have him on the court as much as possible. MCW has exhibited tremendous point guard skills and has a year of game experience within the system, so JB will likely ride him as well. Cooney will see a lot of minutes against weaker teams and in blowouts, but JB is likely to limit his time against better competition. This is not a knock on Cooney, who I believe will be an outstanding player here, but just my expectation based on how JB has coached his teams historically.

I think this says it well. There is a difference between expectations and hope. Past experience suggests JB will be leaning on BT heavily, especially in close and/or important games. And it is not necessarily a reflection on Whitehots abilities, but speaks more to opportunity. Similar to playing time of MCW last year. Good player but with little opportunity.

JB has been making some changes though. And Whitehot will be the 3rd guard (instead of MCWs 4th). So, if things break right, there is hope that Whitehot can be around 20 minutes. To expect that seems like it would be setting one up for disappointment though. Whitehot looks to have long career on the hill, no need to get greedy and hurry it along.

Whitehot has shown the capacity to pay his dues. He will get his turn, the old fashioned way, by being patient and waiting for his time. And when it's Whitehots senior year and his turn, there will probably be some shiny hot shot frosh that everyone will be clamoring for playing time -and they won't get it. JB rewards his veteran players with playing time, and if that is part of being "Boeheimed", then the word isn't all bad.

 

[KevMonstah]

Cooney will probably have to play 12-20 mins a game simply because Triche and MCW are
not 40 minute per game guys. He'll have some good moments, and some not so good ones,
but I don't see him with a quick hook like Rakeem last year. Rakeem was a freshman starter
trying to go from C to PF with experienced talent on the bench behind him. Cooney is not
starting, and has no one behind him. I'd be stunned if Mookie shows up and finally plays
more than he has previously.

Kev

 

[IthacaMatt]

I predict he will be JB's short leash guy this year. One mistake, back to the bench.

I don't think so. With only 3 guys, they've all got to play.

 

[orangefan13]

Cooney is a true gunner Triche isn't yet. There is no comparison.

Cooney is capable of knocking down 5 thees for 15 points. Triche is more of a roll the dice 2-4 some nights while others 1-3 from three up to this point. And I would rather triche build the isolation point guard skills and a tougher in your face matchup defense for next year.

What about MCW is there anyone that is considering he could be a true explosive scorer next year? I don't think anyone has had the guts to predict he will be.

Anythign is possible 4-10 from three is equal to 6-10 from two in terms of 12 points on the scoreboard.
Shooting percentages can be so overated. If James takes 10 threes a game and averages 40 percent on the year knocking down 3-10 4-10 5-10 and 4-10 every 4 game stretch, its not a amazing display by any means but a pretty effective one.

 

[SUintheVille]

What about MCW is there anyone that is considering he could be a true explosive scorer next year? I don't think anyone has had the guts to predict he will be.

Perhaps he will be Rondo-like...an awesome play maker and passer looking to assist first, but with good scoring ability when needed (including taking it to the hole). Hope his J is better than Rondo, although Rondo has improved in that area.

 

[bnoro]

Cooney is a true gunner Triche isn't yet. There is no comparison.

Cooney is capable of knocking down 5 thees for 15 points. Triche is more of a roll the dice 2-4 some nights while others 1-3 from three up to this point. And I would rather triche build the isolation point guard skills and a tougher in your face matchup defense for next year.

What about MCW is there anyone that is considering he could be a true explosive scorer next year? I don't think anyone has had the guts to predict he will be.

Anythign is possible 4-10 from three is equal to 6-10 from two in terms of 12 points on the scoreboard.
Shooting percentages can be so overated. If James takes 10 threes a game and averages 40 percent on the year knocking down 3-10 4-10 5-10 and 4-10 every 4 game stretch, its not a amazing display by any means but a pretty effective one.

Yeah I forgot that game last year when Triche hit his first 5 three pointers. Don't let facts get in the way.

He's capable and college proven.

Cooney has proven nothing yet. I want him to be that guy but Triche is better until we see Cooney in BE action.

 

[Ghost]

Yeah I forgot that game last year when Triche hit his first 5 three pointers. Don't let facts get in the way.

He's capable and college proven.

Cooney has proven nothing yet. I want him to be that guy but Triche is better until we see Cooney in BE action.

What game? ESPN says he never hit 5 threes in a single game last year, let alone his first five. He did go 6-6 his Freshman year against Oakland though. That's impressive.

 

[bnoro]

What game? ESPN says he never hit 5 threes in a single game last year, let alone his first five. He did go 6-6 his Freshman year against Oakland though. That's impressive.

Maybe it was 4? For some reason it stuck in my head that he went off last year against some team. Might have been 2010-11, though.

 

[Ghost]

Maybe it was 4? For some reason it stuck in my head that he went off last year against some team. Might have been 2010-11, though.

Possibly, I'm not sure what game - he had a few where he hit 4. I'm still trying to recall the 6-6. I want more of that next year.

 

[orangefan13]

I remember one game his fresh/sophmore year where he was rediculously wide open against some cupcake and knocked down 5-6 as well.
Might have been oakland.

 

[SoBristol]

No. Southerland is.

Have to say that your comment (Southerland more accurate than Cooney) doesn't jibe with what I saw in warm-ups. But I sure like Southerland's ability, at 6 ft 7 in, to shoot over most defenders. In games, Southerland can be hot or cold.

 

[bnoro]

I remember one game his fresh/sophmore year where he was rediculously wide open against some cupcake and knocked down 5-6 as well.
Might have been oakland.

He still hit that number you said Cooney has the potential to hit. Meaning Triche is a better shooter.

Triche was the reason we beat Florida. 20 pts. He hit 4 threes to carry us against both PC and Marquette. If he didn't hit those against Providence we probably lose at the Dunk. 18 pts against WVU where he shot 7-12 and 2-2 from 3. 18 against the Ville as well. If you think Cooney will put up numbers like that against teams that good in his first year I don't know what to tell you.

Brandon as a senior leader is going to be very good for us this year.

Cooney will be decent in limited minutes. But I would put good money on it that Triche will have a better shooting percentage this year.

 

[albanycuse]

Have to say that your comment (Southerland more accurate than Cooney) doesn't jibe with what I saw in warm-ups. But I sure like Southerland's ability, at 6 ft 7 in, to shoot over most defenders. In games, Southerland can be hot or cold.

Im put that all on his confidence 100%.

 

[bnoro]

Have to say that your comment (Southerland more accurate than Cooney) doesn't jibe with what I saw in warm-ups. But I sure like Southerland's ability, at 6 ft 7 in, to shoot over most defenders. In games, Southerland can be hot or cold.

In practice South hits like 70-80% of his threes.

 

[orangefan13]

He still hit that number you said Cooney has the potential to hit. Meaning Triche is a better shooter.

Triche was the reason we beat Florida. 20 pts. He hit 4 threes to carry us against both PC and Marquette. If he didn't hit those against Providence we probably lose at the Dunk. 18 pts against WVU where he shot 7-12 and 2-2 from 3. 18 against the Ville as well. If you think Cooney will put up numbers like that against teams that good in his first year I don't know what to tell you.

Brandon as a senior leader is going to be very good for us this year.

Cooney will be decent in limited minutes. But I would put good money on it that Triche will have a better shooting percentage this year.

judging by looks and confidence, Brandon has a slower three point shot that doesn't ooze confidence.
I believe Cooney to be the opposite, catch and release effortlessly. Whether or not that leads to some 15-18 point performances in BE ball it will be tough to tell. He had some rough shooting performances in AAU ball if I remember correctly.

Great points though. Numbers like that don't lie, not everyone is up to the challenge either.
Don't forget the sophmore readiness either. I am sure JB had Cooney working out against full tough hands on Defense in practice. Cooney seems like a really bright hardworking kid. A true gym rat.
Check out the article.
http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2012/01/syracuse_freshman_trevor_coone_1.html

 

[bnoro]

judging by looks and confidence, Brandon has a slower three point shot that doesn't ooze confidence.
I believe Cooney to be the opposite, catch and release effortlessly. Whether or not that leads to some 15-18 point performances in BE ball it will be tough to tell. He had some rough shooting performances in AAU ball if I remember correctly.

Great points though. Numbers like that don't lie, not everyone is up to the challenge either.
Don't forget the sophmore readiness either. I am sure JB had Cooney working out against full tough hands on Defense in practice. Cooney seems like a really bright hardworking kid. A true gym rat.
Check out the article.
http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2012/01/syracuse_freshman_trevor_coone_1.html

My point still stands that you haven't seen Cooney play in a game yet. So how can you make this point?

I completely disagree on your Triche confidence point, he routinely takes pull up shots, that alone oozes confidence. He also doesn't get them blocked so it's not that slow. Paul Pierce's 3 point shot is one of the slowest in the NBA and he's had great numbers.

 

[albanycuse]

My point still stands that you haven't seen Cooney play in a game yet. So how can you make this point?

I completely disagree on your Triche confidence point, he routinely takes pull up shots, that alone oozes confidence. He also doesn't get them blocked so it's not that slow. Paul Pierce's 3 point shot is one of the slowest in the NBA and he's had great numbers.

Uh have to chime in here , triches confident is game to game, if he had that issue solved he would be an nba player but the mental part of the game is his kryptonite.

 

[orangefan13]

Cooney, a 6-4 guard, possesses a deadly accurate shooting touch. He could give the Orange the game-changing 3-point threat that it lacked this past season. But he will still be a freshman.
This is from the first article after loosing to OSU on next years syracuse team from Mike Waters.
I don't think our opinions are much different then his.

Just a opinion...
I don't think its Triche doesn't haven't the confidence. I just think his 3 point shot hasn't reached the level deadly yet, and his isolation game has trouble getting the upper hand on a opponent. I think people mistake that and the lack of grabbing loose balls at times for lack of confidence.

When hes moving without the ball hes as good as any player as we have had since I have watched the last decade. Because, hes pretty solid with a patient open three point shot, and when he gets a step on his man into the lane he is as dangerous as any driver in the country.

I hope he finds the deadly shot or isolation dribble in the offseason though even if thats the only thing he gets better at. IMO I would take that over his senior leadership even, and it would have more chance of getting him drafted.

Also we really haven't brought up the stats...
Triche soph and jr three point shooting should be looked at.
Triche shot 33 percent as a sophmore but took 150 in 1008 minutes
As a jr he shot 35 percent but only shot 120 in 834 minutes.
That means he only took 3.5 three point shots on average per game this year while he only took 4.2 as a jr.

Compare that to Rautins senior year where he shot 40 percent and took 6.8 per game. The year before, Devendorf shot 39 percent as a jr, and averaged 5.8 per game next to rautins who shot even more 7.5 per game. Gerry took 8.8 three pointers a game his senior year. To be fair James only took 2.9 last year but he had a late run in which I bet he was more around alittle 4 per game if we looked it up. Wes only took 3.5 per game his one year here and KJO averaged 4 per game last year.

Do I think Cooney could shoot better then 35 from three or take more then Triche? Its possible. do I think Triche could be a stud this year or for that matter average 6 threes a game? Its possible, but I think he would be better learning to beat his man off the dribble in isolation more b and I could be wrong.

 

[br801]

Uh have to chime in here , triches confident is game to game, if he had that issue solved he would be an nba player but the mental part of the game is his kryptonite.

You really need to chime in more on Triche, just so we're all clear on where you stand.

So we're back to the old "Triche isn't mentally tough" baloney, huh? Will your next post be about how he doesn't show enough emotion, or will it be that he hangs his head too much and isn't a leader?

 

[albanycuse]

You really need to chime in more on Triche, just so we're all clear on where you stand.

So we're back to the old "Triche isn't mentally tough" baloney, huh? Will your next post be about how he doesn't show enough emotion, or will it be that he hangs his head too much and isn't a leader?

 

[realorange]

Good grief! Can we just all agree we're lucky to have three excellent guards on the team this year? How well any of them do as individuals is open for discussion but not for rock solid prognostication. Triche, the veteran looking to close out his SU career on an upnote; MCW, a soph ready to prove what he feels he can do and Cooney, the newcomer with solid credentials looking to show he's ready to be a part of the puzzle at guard.
What more could we ask for! Oh yeah, Mookie in reserve.