Cooney

[Cusefan0307]

Agreed. The kid tries and works his tail off I'm sure but he isn't superhuman. The staff thinks he is JJ Redick or something. The staff made this mess of having him play nearly 40 mpg nearly 2.5 seasons in a row now.

It's a two fold problem. He isn't Jj redick , but since we have limited options, he gets defensive attention like he is. If he was a fourth option he probably would be a lot more efficient.

 

[Delmar]

Strange of me, but I like this team. I like the effort, even with the flaws. My guess is that there will be some gratifying moments amid the pain this year. The pay off may not happen until next year or the one after that. I'm willing to wait, and I am confident I will be rewarded.

Cooney has a role to play in all of this. He leaves it all on the court. His teammates see it every night.

 

[pearl31]

Strange of me, but I like this team. I like the effort, even with the flaws. My guess is that there will be some gratifying moments amid the pain this year. The pay off may not happen until next year or the one after that. I'm willing to wait, and I am confident I will be rewarded.

Cooney has a role to play in all of this. He leaves it all on the court. His teammates see it every night.

Posts like this are much appreciated right now.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I believe we missed the front end twice. So that means we left 9 at the line.

Yep...and our senior leader and 'best player' is the worst of all from the line

 

[Melancer46]

Saying Cooney is lazy on defense is a pretty odd criticism IMO. It seems to me that he probably hustles more than anyone on the team. On the flipside, Roberson seems to be one of the laziest defenders I've seen in awhile. He tries hard on the glass, but he spends the majority of defensive possessions just standing around flat-footed paying no attention to what's happening around him.

I think last night was a pretty good example of failing to adjust the zone. They murdered us because Roberson and Malachi (mainly Roberson though) were basically playing at the top of the zone in a 4-1 zone. They seemingly ignored the short corner the entire game and never adjusted despite Clemson feeding the short corner with success basically any time they wanted.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Saying Cooney is lazy on defense is a pretty odd criticism IMO. It seems to me that he probably hustles more than anyone on the team. On the flipside, Roberson seems to be one of the laziest defenders I've seen in awhile. He tries hard on the glass, but he spends the majority of defensive possessions just standing around flat-footed paying no attention to what's happening around him.

I think last night was a pretty good example of failing to adjust the zone. They murdered us because Roberson and Malachi (mainly Roberson though) were basically playing at the top of the zone in a 4-1 zone. They seemingly ignored the short corner the entire game and never adjusted despite Clemson feeding the short corner with success basically any time they wanted.

Hustling and playing smart are definitely not the same thing. Part of the reason he hustles so much is because he is out of position so often. It still astounds me (and you've all heard this before) that a player who makes his living shooting 3 point shots is so bad at defending 3 point shooters. He is far more concerned with contesting the pass to the big at the foul line than actually stepping out above the 3-point line and contesting a shooter.

Maybe he'd rather pile up his steal numbers, I don't know.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hustling and playing smart are definitely not the same thing. Part of the reason he hustles so much is because he is out of position so often. It still astounds me (and you've all heard this before) that a player who makes his living shooting 3 point shots is so bad at defending 3 point shooters. He is far more concerned with contesting the pass to the big at the foul line than actually stepping out above the 3-point line and contesting a shooter.

Maybe he'd rather pile up his steal numbers, I don't know.

Then blame the coaches. We play the scouting report. We shut down Clemsons best shooter. He had zero points until he hit two free throws late. Role players continuously kills us. Thats what happened last night and thats what happened in Miami. We let Newton shoot in Miami, because he was an awful shooter going into that game and he hit two threes.

I'm tired of the Cooney criticism. He played a good game last night, he's not why we lost. I just think it's an emotional excuse for people to blame the same player over and over when there are bigger problems with the team. The only reason we had a chance to win at the buzzer was because he hit a three to cut the lead to two with 20 seconds left and he stole the ball in a crazy scenario that lead to the last shot. I just think it's becoming a lazy excuse.

 

[realorange]

Howard or Joseph. It can't be worse than this.

With Joseph, yes it could. Good with Howard once he gets well.

 

[realorange]

Idk what some people expect. He hit 1 out of 2 down the stretch. He isn't Steph, and NBA players shoot a terrible percentage down the stretch of games anyway. The blame on Cooney is ridiculous. people want him to be Jimmer Fredette for us. He's not. People need realistic expectations. He played really well in the second half. So did Richardson, besides the missed free throw.

We blew the game at the line. Again. And we just get destroyed inside.

^^^^^
This with 100 likes.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Then blame the coaches. We play the scouting report. We shut down Clemsons best shooter. He had zero points until he hit two free throws late. Role players continuously kills us. Thats what happened last night and thats what happened in Miami. We let Newton shoot in Miami, because he was an awful shooter going into that game and he hit two threes.

I'm tired of the Cooney criticism. He played a good game last night, he's not why we lost. I just think it's an emotional excuse for people to blame the same player over and over when there are bigger problems with the team. The only reason we had a chance to win at the buzzer was because he hit a three to cut the lead to two with 20 seconds left and he stole the ball in a crazy scenario that lead to the last shot. I just think it's becoming a lazy excuse.

I didn't see the game last night. I'm just going off of what I've seen from for too many years now.

He dared Newton to shoot the shot and that put the Miami kid in a groove and it killed us. And he has done that same kind of thing consistently for years.

 

[TinyManInside]

Sadly i wont miss him at all. Same exact player since his soph year. Unclutch. Lazy on d way too often. Time for some new blood.

No, he's not the same player as he was a Soph. For half his sophomore year he was actually a good shooter. He's regressed markedly since then and the statistics bear it out.

 

[realorange]

That isn't Boeheims philosophy. He plays each season to win as many games as possible in that season. He will never play guys to develop for next year.

He has also said on more than one occasion that if he had someone as good or better to sub, he would.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I didn't see the game last night. I'm just going off of what I've seen from for too many years now.

He dared Newton to shoot the shot and that put the Miami kid in a groove and it killed us. And he has done that same kind of thing consistently for years.

Well he made 3 three pointers all year going into that game. I'm sure the coaches said if theres one guy we let shoot it's him.

 

[realorange]

I didn't see the game last night. I'm just going off of what I've seen from for too many years now.

He dared Newton to shoot the shot and that put the Miami kid in a groove and it killed us. And he has done that same kind of thing consistently for years.

The guards were told to keep Newton out of the lane. They did and that's how we got burned.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No, he's not the same player as he was a Soph. For half his sophomore year he was actually a good shooter. He's regressed markedly since then and the statistics bear it out.

LOL I can't believe I'm defending Cooney, but I thought our fans were more intelligent. I guess I was wrong. He's shooting 50 percentage points higher than last year.

 

[orangecuse]

Then blame the coaches. We play the scouting report. We shut down Clemsons best shooter. He had zero points until he hit two free throws late. Role players continuously kills us. Thats what happened last night and thats what happened in Miami. We let Newton shoot in Miami, because he was an awful shooter going into that game and he hit two threes.

I'm tired of the Cooney criticism. He played a good game last night, he's not why we lost. I just think it's an emotional excuse for people to blame the same player over and over when there are bigger problems with the team. The only reason we had a chance to win at the buzzer was because he hit a three to cut the lead to two with 20 seconds left and he stole the ball in a crazy scenario that lead to the last shot. I just think it's becoming a lazy excuse.

I do agree with you that Cooney seemingly is a convenient scapegoat. A point of yours makes me think of how many times have we seen this movie before where a guy out of nowhere (as you've deemed role players) kills us. I know people get nuts around here whenever one wants to question the zone and playing it exclusively. Well, these role players going off consistently is directly linked and causally related to our staff's leader's pigeonholed zone and nothing but the zone so help me god philosophy.

 

[TinyManInside]

Who's going to play? Joseph is bad. Coleman isn't giving us anything. Howard has been sick on and off for a month, and Cooney is shooting 36 percent from three which really is actually decent. He, Richardson and Gbinije need to be on the court at all times, especially now with Lydon all of a sudden scared to shoot.

He's shooting 36% from three right now but will finish the year around 30% once he hits his February prayerfest. This guy's historic Feb/March numbers are truly dreadful. Once his legs are dead from 38 mpg for 3 straight months there is no turning back.

 

[Alsacs]

Boeheim has betrayed Cooney. How we don't have guards who can play 10-14 mpg has hurt the program. Cooney is an average P5 guard who plays the minutes of an elite P5 guard.

Cooney's PER is below average and that is because of the minutes he plays. He isn't efficient. Cooney takes the crap because G doesn't deserve it and he is only other Senior on the roster. There aren't many starting SGs in the ACC I would take Trevor Cooney over. I think PER tells you a lot about a player.

 

[Melancer46]

Hustling and playing smart are definitely not the same thing. Part of the reason he hustles so much is because he is out of position so often. It still astounds me (and you've all heard this before) that a player who makes his living shooting 3 point shots is so bad at defending 3 point shooters. He is far more concerned with contesting the pass to the big at the foul line than actually stepping out above the 3-point line and contesting a shooter.

Maybe he'd rather pile up his steal numbers, I don't know.

Sure, but playing smart and playing lazy are definitely not the same thing either, which is what my point was. Cooney is anything but lazy.

Also, considering the make-up of our team, I'd say that defending that pass to the FT line probably should be the top priority. With the way Roberson and Malachi are defending in the "back line", once the ball gets to the FT line, it's an automatic 2 points. Cooney generally does a pretty good job in his position of the zone, and the stats would back it up; teams struggle mightily shooting the ball from the parts of the zone that he's tasked with defending. I'd say he's probably our best defender at this point (which isn't saying much, but still).

 

[Cusefan0307]

Boeheim has betrayed Cooney. How we don't have guards who can play 10-14 mpg has hurt the program. Cooney is an average P5 guard who plays the minutes of an elite P5 guard.

Cooney's PER is below average and that is because of the minutes he plays. He isn't efficient. Cooney takes the crap because G doesn't deserve it and he is only other Senior on the roster. There aren't many starting SGs in the ACC I would take Trevor Cooney over. I think PER tells you a lot about a player.

Interesting. G is supposed to be our best player. He is 5- 25 from three our first 3 ACC games and 50% from the line (13-26). He's 14-45 overall from the field 31% and has 12 turnovers.

By comparison Cooney is 7-18(39%) from three and 7-10 from the line, yet we blame the role player for our struggles.

 

[Alsacs]

Sure, but playing smart and playing lazy are definitely not the same thing either, which is what my point was. Cooney is anything but lazy.

Also, considering the make-up of our team, I'd say that defending that pass to the FT line probably should be the top priority. With the way Roberson and Malachi are defending in the "back line", once the ball gets to the FT line, it's an automatic 2 points. Cooney generally does a pretty good job in his position of the zone, and the stats would back it up; teams struggle mightily shooting the ball from the parts of the zone that he's tasked with defending. I'd say he's probably our best defender at this point (which isn't saying much, but still).

Sorry I watch the game as well. Cooney is not our best defender. His side of the zone gets plenty of makes on it. He cheats a lot for steals. He isn't the worst defender but he isn't the best we have either.

 

[Alsacs]

Interesting. G is supposed to be our best player. He is 5- 25 from three our first 3 ACC games and 50% from the line (13-26). He's 14-45 overall from the field 31% and has 12 turnovers.

By comparison Cooney is 7-18(39%) from three and 7-10 from the line, yet we blame the role player for our struggles.

C'mon man. G has be to the PG. Nobody passes the ball to him in a position to get an open look. If G didn't have to do it all he would be a better finisher than Cooney.

If I had to choose between Cooney or G shooting an open 3 point shot I would pick G to shoot it 100 out of 100 times and not even hesitate 1 time. Cooney didn't shoot that much against Miami. You realize teams don't put their best defender on Cooney they put their 2nd best guard on him and just say stay around him. G has dealt with the D best defender. Cooney is not the role player it is what he should be. G won't get crap from me because he is our best player and teams are gameplanning to stop him first thank god Richardson has stepped up.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He has also said on more than one occasion that if he had someone as good or better to sub, he would.

Why does a sub need to be as good as or better? That makes absolutely no sense. If you have a sub who is better, shouldn't that be your starter? I know it's not appropriate to question the mighty JB, but that is just stupid.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The guards were told to keep Newton out of the lane. They did and that's how we got burned.

See, here's the thing. Earlier in that half, Newton was clearly injured or cramping. So him getting into the lane wasn't going to happen. I know Cooney knew this because he saw the guy limping around and tried to get someone to pass him the ball but of course we missed that as well because we are terrible at exploiting advantages. He should have stepped out and contested both shots. He looked like me playing in the old man league - prove to me you can shoot that shot before I step out there.

 

[Cusefan0307]

C'mon man. G has be to the PG. Nobody passes the ball to him in a position to get an open look. If G didn't have to do it all he would be a better finisher than Cooney.

If I had to choose between Cooney or G shooting an open 3 point shot I would pick G to shoot it 100 out of 100 times and not even hesitate 1 time. Cooney didn't shoot that much against Miami. You realize teams don't put their best defender on Cooney they put their 2nd best guard on him and just say stay around him. G has dealt with the D best defender. Cooney is not the role player it is what he should be. G won't get crap from me because he is our best player and teams are gameplanning to stop him first thank god Richardson has stepped up.

I disagree to a point, and maybe it'll change going forward, but teams want to stop both of those guys. I don't disagree that Cooney is a role player, but when Brandon Triche played like G has the last 3 games 3 years ago down the stretch he got killed on this board.

The reason Richardson has had open shots the last two games is because he was shooting 25 percent going into the conference and teams were happy to let him shoot. Maybe teams will gameplan to stop Richardson going forward and the other two guys can get open looks.

All of this highlights one thing. We are entirely too reliant on 3 guys that are all two guards.