Coyle's decision

[007]

As a college baseball coach, practice is absolutely everything in college.

Will the entire team make a jump in the 15 practices? No.

Will the underclassmen? Yes - if they are being coached and are willing to practice hard everyday.

Anyone who has ever coached at any level understands the benefits of 15 extra practices. It's not even worthy of debate.

 

[tipphill]

At the end of the day, we need to really ask ourselves if we think Shafer is the man to put us on top or be competitive in order to be on top. In looking deep inside and seeing the three plus years, I simply do not see it.

--His 'X and O' gameplan is weak. How on Earth do we not score from one 1 yard line with two chances? Why not go under the 'I' formation with a fullback and try to score? The FG attempt was shaky at best. I do not even trust our kicker in the Dome, how can we expect him to make a kick outside of the Dome?
--We all think he is some amazing recruiter, but the facts do not lie. We are rated close to last in the ACC which means our peer schools are out-recruiting us.
--7-6, 3-9, 3-?...Those are not records that I am comfortable with and are not trending in the right direction.
--Zero signature wins. No I do not count BC or MD as signature wins his first year. The PSU game was blown in 2013. While we were expected to lose (PSU opener, homecoming vs. Clemson, ND at MetLife, home vs. LSU, etc.), a good coach at least pulls out one of those games. In comparison, FHCDM had four big wins and his gameplan was always solid.

HCSS is a fiery and passionate guy. As a coordinator, he is top notch. As a Head Coach, I'd take many reasonable options over him. Just my two cents.

to fiery, to passionate, needs to step back and be more analytical particularly on game day----gets to emotionally involved. in doing so he misses the nuances of the game such as time management, and practical plays inside the red zone. needs to temper the blitzes, and not try to live off them.---just my rookie opinion

 

[CuseOnly]

I would think his (Coyle) expectations would be no less than what the Boise program did while he was there.

Yes, because we all know that everything is the same for the 2 programs.

 

[CuseOnly]

I think I like Justin Fuente...TCU assistant bring the same style of offense TCU has. Turning around a Memphis program that was in a worse starting spot than us. In his 4th year at Memphis he is 23-20. Started 4-8 then 3-9 then 10-3 and now has his team 6-0 and just beat Ole Miss. He has also beaten USF, Cinny and Bowling Green this year.

Key words: "4th year"

Memphis has played a crap schedule compared to what we have had to go against each of the last 3 years.

 

[Finwad32]

Anyone who has ever coached at any level understands the benefits of 15 extra practices. It's not even worthy of debate.

100% correct 007.

The fact that the discussion is even being had is mind numbing.

Practice time is crucial, and you have to be extremely efficient to utilize it effectively. The NCAA allows 20 "countable" hours over a week.

A game counts for 3 -
5 practices count for 2 - 10
All meetings and film 5/1 - 5
Weight room 2/1 - 2

It may seem sufficient, but there is so much ground to cover, that you're constantly pushing to get everything in and taught correctly.

To say 15 extra practices doesn't or may not provide a benefit is laughable. You play for an extra month, learning in that time period. Your layoff prior to Spring ball is a month shorter. The players are around it that much more.

Are we really debating the difference between a bowl-less 3-W season and a 6-W season with a bowl?

I'm not even saying I agree with 6 W teams getting a bowl, which btw I don't, but to say it doesn't benefit the team is ludicrous.

 

[phil77]

Key words: "4th year"

Memphis has played a crap schedule compared to what we have had to go against each of the last 3 years.

Crap schedule? They have beaten Ole Miss this year better than any win Shafer has ever had. Also beaten USF who we just lost too. Also wins over Bowling Green and Cinny. That is just this year alone.

Last year Memphis beat Cinny, Tulsa, Temple, USF and BYU...That was in 2014. Lost by only 7 to UCLA at UCLA

Crap schedule? Haven't beaten anyone?

 

[bcubs9497]

Crap schedule? They have beaten Ole Miss this year better than any win Shafer has ever had. Also beaten USF who we just lost too. Also wins over Bowling Green and Cinny. That is just this year alone.

Last year Memphis beat Cinny, Tulsa, Temple, USF and BYU...That was in 2014. Lost by only 7 to UCLA at UCLA

Crap schedule? Haven't beaten anyone?

And it took Memphis time to get to that point...

 

[phil77]

And it took Memphis time to get to that point...

That was his 3rd year. He was 10-3 with a bowl win over BYU in his 4th year he is 6-0 with win over Ole Miss.


The two years before he came the team was 3-21.

First year 4-8
Second year 3-9
Third year 10-3
Fourth year 6-0

 

[bcubs9497]

That was his 3rd year. He was 10-3 with a bowl win over BYU in his 4th year he is 6-0 with win over Ole Miss.


The two years before he came the team was 3-21.

First year 4-8
Second year 3-9
Third year 10-3
Fourth year 6-0

For most of the 2000s, Memphis was NOT known for stellar football. It's taken them awhile to get to where they're at right now.

Quite frankly, this whole "fire Shafer" thing reeks of six year olds throwing a GD temper tantrum. Personally sick of it, altogether.

 

[orange44]

For most of the 2000s, Memphis was NOT known for stellar football. It's taken them awhile to get to where they're at right now.

Quite frankly, this whole "fire Shafer" thing reeks of six year olds throwing a GD temper tantrum. Personally sick of it, altogether.

Could not agree more!!

 

[Millhouse]

For most of the 2000s, Memphis was NOT known for stellar football. It's taken them awhile to get to where they're at right now. Quite frankly, this whole "fire Shafer" thing reeks of six year olds throwing a GD temper tantrum. Personally sick of it, altogether.

They didn't give porter much time. Maybe they should've kept him instead of fuente

 

[Chip]

They didn't give porter much time. Maybe they should've kept him instead of fuente

Stanford screwed up when they only gave Walt Harris two years. How can you build anything in 2 years? They deserve all the terrible football they've had since.

 

[GoSU96]

For most of the 2000s, Memphis was NOT known for stellar football. It's taken them awhile to get to where they're at right now.

Quite frankly, this whole "fire Shafer" thing reeks of six year olds throwing a GD temper tantrum. Personally sick of it, altogether.

3 -21 vs 13 -12

Not exactly the same scenario.

 

[Millhouse]

3 -21 vs 13 -12

Not exactly the same scenario.

i agree, i wasn't saying they were the same. just saying memphis isn't a great example for shafer fans to use because they benefited from a short leash.

i'm not sure what 13-12 is about though

 

[TheCusian]

They didn't give porter much time. Maybe they should've kept him instead of fuente

My favorite board exercise: finding one example to support my conclusion.

There are plenty of examples either way - sticking with a guy who turns it around and getting rid of a guy early who then turns it around.

Totally pointless.

 

[JeremyCuse]

A lot of these arguments are pointless without knowing how the rest of the season plays out. Much like last week this weeks game is another huge opportunity for Shafer and the program to take a gigantic step forward. We have blown the last two weeks, this staff can't afford to make it 3-3. If Syracuse finishes 3-9 with 15K in attendane for BC, Coyle is likely to make a move. If SU can get to 5 wins and not get annhiliated by FSU, Clemson, Lville etc, the staff will be back.

 

[GoSU96]

i agree, i wasn't saying they were the same. just saying memphis isn't a great example for shafer fans to use because they benefited from a short leash.

i'm not sure what 13-12 is about though

Wasn't replying to you on that one.

 

[Millhouse]

My favorite board exercise: finding one example to support my conclusion.

There are plenty of examples either way - sticking with a guy who turns it around and getting rid of a guy early who then turns it around.

Totally pointless.

fuente came up as a possible candidate in this thread.

 

[Millhouse]

Wasn't replying to you on that one.

i have no idea why i thought you did. whoops.

 

[Millhouse]

A lot of these arguments are pointless without knowing how the rest of the season plays out. Much like last week this weeks game is another huge opportunity for Shafer and the program to take a gigantic step forward. We have blown the last two weeks, this staff can't afford to make it 3-3. If Syracuse finishes 3-9 with 15K in attendane for BC, Coyle is likely to make a move. If SU can get to 5 wins and not get annhiliated by FSU, Clemson, Lville etc, the staff will be back.

it seems to me that it's a strong consensus that 5 wins he stays, 4 wins he goes. who knows though. not trying to put words in anyone's mouth but that seems to be a common opinion by most (not all)

 

[GoSU96]

My favorite board exercise: finding one example to support my conclusion.

There are plenty of examples either way - sticking with a guy who turns it around and getting rid of a guy early who then turns it around.

Totally pointless.

In Shafer's case the only reason there is anything to turn around is because he made a horrible hire, he didn't start from scratch like Harbaugh, Broiles, Cutcliffe, or Marrone did. Or Fuente picking up a program that had just gone 3-21 two years prior.

That's why they get measured differently, because those guys and Shafer have tremendously different starting points.

Those guys were all hired for total rebuilds, Shafer was to maintain the level of play and take the program to a higher level through continued improvement. If the program needed a rebuild, why an inside hire?

Different jobs, different evaluation criteria.

 

[GoSU96]

it seems to me that it's a strong consensus that 5 wins he stays, 4 wins he goes. who knows though. not trying to put words in anyone's mouth but that seems to be a common opinion by most (not all)

I'm for keeping him regardless of what happens, but I don't think he's done anything that demands he stays, or demands that he goes for that matter.

Coyle needs to make at decision based on the internals of the program not the win loss record.

 

[jr4750]

I'm for keeping him regardless of what happens, but I don't think he's done anything that demands he stays, or demands that he goes for that matter.

Coyle needs to make at decision based on the internals of the program not the win loss record.

This is it exactly. Not sure he has done anything to stay or go, which is ironically frustrating. Guy needs to win a game he's not supposed too. He's lost the tweener games.

 

[TheCusian]

fuente came up as a possible candidate in this thread.

Doesn't matter. There are plenty of examples all over the place. Hiring/firing is risky that way.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm for keeping him regardless of what happens, but I don't think he's done anything that demands he stays, or demands that he goes for that matter.

Coyle needs to make at decision based on the internals of the program not the win loss record.

there are two wins on here. if everybody plays well but one cornerback costs them a winnable game and they only win 4, i can see shrugging and saying well, that won't happen again for 13 years. but if they finish up 1-8 and he ends up with a record of 15-22? that's tough to keep around when he's the AD's guy