Coyle's decision

[Chip]

A lot of these arguments are pointless without knowing how the rest of the season plays out. Much like last week this weeks game is another huge opportunity for Shafer and the program to take a gigantic step forward. We have blown the last two weeks, this staff can't afford to make it 3-3. If Syracuse finishes 3-9 with 15K in attendane for BC, Coyle is likely to make a move. If SU can get to 5 wins and not get annhiliated by FSU, Clemson, Lville etc, the staff will be back.

Agree with that, it's filler. Win this weekend and Shafer has a good story. We're holding court at home (assuming we can beat BC as well), we've just let a few things get away from us on the road, and we'll correct that as this young team gets older, hopefully get out of NC State with a win.

I don't know Coyle from a hole in the wall, so maybe his mind is already made up and was made up when he arrived. But I'd bet he wants this to work. Shafer provides continuity, he's cheap, he probably doesn't give Coyle any headaches about demands.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know Coyle from a hole in the wall

chip knows lots of holes in bathroom walls

 

[Chip]

chip knows lots of holes in bathroom walls

For manly love be here at 2:15 am sharp.

Cam Neely wasn't acting.

 

[Vorony]

In Shafer's case the only reason there is anything to turn around is because he made a horrible hire, he didn't start from scratch like Harbaugh, Broiles, Cutcliffe, or Marrone did. Or Fuente picking up a program that had just gone 3-21 two years prior.

That's why they get measured differently, because those guys and Shafer have tremendously different starting points.

Those guys were all hired for total rebuilds, Shafer was to maintain the level of play and take the program to a higher level through continued improvement. If the program needed a rebuild, why an inside hire?

Different jobs, different evaluation criteria.

This exactly. We've been in rebuild mode for 10 years now. Lots of folks claiming that he needs more time, we need to see what his players will do in a year or two, etc. But as GoSU96 points out, Shafer was hired to maintain the level of play that Marrone left us with and elevate it. He hasn't done that. He's set us back. The recruiting has been decent, but the coaching has been awful. We're in the middle of year 3 and it's looking like we may not win another game this year... maybe squeak out an upset. But we definitely won't be favored in any of the remaining games on the schedule. To me, that's an obvious regression in the program.

If he doesn't win another game, or only hits 4 wins, I think Coyle needs to pull the plug. Anything more than that, as others have pointed out, is justification for another year.

 

[OttoMets]

...

Those guys were all hired for total rebuilds, Shafer was to maintain the level of play and take the program to a higher level through continued improvement. If the program needed a rebuild, why an inside hire?

...

Taking us on a tangent from your post, I wonder what these 2.5 seasons would have looked like had Gross given Hackett the head coaching position (if I remember correctly, he and Shafer were the two candidates). Perhaps Shafer would have stayed, maybe he'd have left and Daoust would have become the coordinator.

Either way, the 2013 hire was definitely intended to pick up where Marrone left off, not rebuild the program.

 

[TheCusian]

In Shafer's case the only reason there is anything to turn around is because he made a horrible hire, he didn't start from scratch like Harbaugh, Broiles, Cutcliffe, or Marrone did. Or Fuente picking up a program that had just gone 3-21 two years prior. That's why they get measured differently, because those guys and Shafer have tremendously different starting points. Those guys were all hired for total rebuilds, Shafer was to maintain the level of play and take the program to a higher level through continued improvement. If the program needed a rebuild, why an inside hire? Different jobs, different evaluation criteria.

He has maintained the level of play save one season (2012).

 

[TheCusian]

This exactly. We've been in rebuild mode for 10 years now. Lots of folks claiming that he needs more time, we need to see what his players will do in a year or two, etc. But as GoSU96 points out, Shafer was hired to maintain the level of play that Marrone left us with and elevate it. He hasn't done that. He's set us back. The recruiting has been decent, but the coaching has been awful. We're in the middle of year 3 and it's looking like we may not win another game this year... maybe squeak out an upset. But we definitely won't be favored in any of the remaining games on the schedule. To me, that's an obvious regression in the program. If he doesn't win another game, or only hits 4 wins, I think Coyle needs to pull the plug. Anything more than that, as others have pointed out, is justification for another year.

It's really not a regression - it's the mean. And if the case for Marrone is that he had something going on offense - that's true - but it was year 4 when it clicked.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's really not a regression - it's the mean. And if the case for Marrone is that he had something going on offense - that's true - but it was year 4 when it clicked.

Also his qb and number one and two wr were seniors.

 

[GoSU96]

He has maintained the level of play save one season (2012).

That is nonsense.

 

[TheCusian]

That is nonsense.

Not really. D has been better on the whole, 1st year of Shafer offense was right about where the non 2012 years were. 2014 was bad - but on par with 2010.

 

[Alsacs]

It's really not a regression - it's the mean. And if the case for Marrone is that he had something going on offense - that's true - but it was year 4 when it clicked.

Please tell me the clusterf#ck games we had from 2009-2012? We got blown by Pitt in 2010 and Penn State in 2009.
DM kept us competitive and prepared the team a lot better than we have these past 3 years. You want to make these SS years close to the 2009-2011 years when DM had an upset win every year and we weren't blown out.

SS seasons have not been like the Marrone era. You want that to be narrative because that fits your argument. We have regressed. DM took over Gerg and his worst year we won 4 games and were competitive. Right now that sounds good.

We have taken a step back with SS. We are 3-0 vs. Wake Forest and 3-9 against all ACC teams thus far. Our best win is against Minnesota. SS needs a good win like Marrone had multiple and not counting the 2012 season.

 

[TheCusian]

Please tell me the clusterf#ck games we had from 2009-2012? We got blown by Pitt in 2010 and Penn State in 2009. DM kept us competitive and prepared the team a lot better than we have these past 3 years. You want to make these SS close to the 2009-2011 years when DM had an upset win every year and we weren't blown out. SS seasons have not been like the Marrone era. You want that to be narrative because that fits your argument. We have regressed. DM took over Gerg and his worst year we won 4 games and were competitive. Right now that sounds good. We have taken a step back with SS.

You just did. I'd add the 1 point Louisville loss in 2009, 41-20 vs Washington in 2010, the 7 point win vs URI in 2011, the 3 point win vs Toledo, the 5 game swoon to finish that year as particularly ugly, and the loss to Rutgers in 2012 (we were the better team).

It's not my narrative. You and Go have canonized Marrone because of his last year - but he was far, far from perfect. And to be clear I've said Marrone had more good wins in his first 2.5 years than Shafer. And Shafer has more blowouts. I'm not disputing that.

But the numbers themselves aren't all that different and you really can't dispute that. We were bad/mediocre on O Marrone's first 3 years and we were mediocre/bad Shafer's first two. This year may end up that way - but as you've said there is hope offensively moving fwd.

The one constant has been a decent D.

Also - I think we get our marquee win this weekend

 

[Alsacs]

You just did. I'd add the 1 point Louisville loss in 2009, 41-20 vs Washington in 2010, the 7 point win vs URI in 2011, the 3 point win vs Toledo, the 5 game swoon to finish that year as particularly ugly, and the loss to Rutgers in 2012 (we were the better team).

It's not my narrative. You and Go have canonized Marrone because of his last year - but he was far, far from perfect. And to be clear I've said Marrone had more good wins in his first 2.5 years than Shafer. And Shafer has more blowouts. I'm not disputing that.

But the numbers themselves aren't all that different and you really can't dispute that. We were bad/mediocre on O Marrone's first 3 years and we were mediocre/bad Shafer's first two. This year may end up that way - but as you've said there is hope offensively moving fwd.

The one constant has been a decent D.

Also - I think we get our marquee win this weekend

I did not canonize Marrone. I was just as tough on him as I have been on SS. Instead I realize how much better a coach DM is than SS.

If Marrone had the IPF and couldn't have recruited he was way better equipted to be a HC than SS.

BTW that 2009 Penn State game was a 28-7 hardly a blowout on the road against a top 10 team. I knew you would take that bait.
That Pitt was the only bad game in 4 years in terms of a blowout.

SS ERA has been littered with blowouts.

 

[TheCusian]

I did not canonize Marrone. I was just as tough on him as I have been on SS. Instead I realize how much better a coach DM is than SS. If Marrone had the IPF and couldn't have recruited he was way better equipted to be a HC than SS. BTW that 2009 Penn State game was a 28-7 hardly a blowout on the road against a top 10 team. I knew you would take that bait. That Pitt was the only bad game in 4 years in terms of a blowout. SS ERA has been littered with blowouts.

41-20 to Washington at home is pretty bad. Looking crap up on my phone is difficult hanging with my kids - but congrats "you got me"!

And for what it's worth, 2015 has not been littered with blowouts. We were in every game in the later 3rd Q.

He's not "so much better" and the stats bear that out. What if in 2010 we actually played a decent schedule? And our QB went down for half the games. How would we have faired be FSU or Clemson in the top 10?!

 

[Alsacs]

41-20 to Washington at home is pretty bad. Looking crap up on my phone is difficult hanging with my kids - but congrats "you got me"!

And for what it's worth, 2015 has not been littered with blowouts. We were in every game in the later 3rd Q.

He's not "so much better" and the stats bear that out. What if in 2010 we actually played a decent schedule? And our QB went down for half the games. How would we have faired be FSU or Clemson in the top 10?!

That was at Washington. Not at the Dome not that you care to fact check as I have shown numerous times this week its not hard " getting you"
If you want to have this debate you will lose. By how we performed at Penn State and against USC I have way more confidence in Doug Marrone preparing the team than Scott Shafer. If you want to debate this you show Baghdad Bob he isn't alone.

 

[Czar]

This dude is obsessed with Tom Coughlin.

 

[CuseOnly]

Crap schedule? They have beaten Ole Miss this year better than any win Shafer has ever had. Also beaten USF who we just lost too. Also wins over Bowling Green and Cinny. That is just this year alone.

Last year Memphis beat Cinny, Tulsa, Temple, USF and BYU...That was in 2014. Lost by only 7 to UCLA at UCLA

Crap schedule? Haven't beaten anyone?

LOL, last year you are saying that 4-8 USF was a good win? Or was 2-10 Tulsa? Or 6-6 Temple? I will give you 8-5 BYU and 9-4 Cinncinnati as good wins but the rest of the teams they played were garbage outside of UCLA which was a loss I might add. SO, lets add this up, 3 tough teams, the remaining 9 garbage = crap schedule.

2014 SU played Clemson, FSU, Duke, Louisville and ND. That my friend is a tough schedule. Compared to that Memphis 2014 schedule is garbage.

 

[jgeorge322]

LOL, last year you are saying that 4-8 USF was a good win? Or was 2-10 Tulsa? Or 6-6 Temple? I will give you 8-5 BYU and 9-4 Cinncinnati as good wins but the rest of the teams they played were garbage outside of UCLA which was a loss I might add. SO, lets add this up, 3 tough teams, the remaining 9 garbage = crap schedule.

2014 SU played Clemson, FSU, Duke, Louisville and ND. That my friend is a tough schedule. Compared to that Memphis 2014 schedule is garbage.

you continue to sound like an ass

 

[CuseOnly]

you continue to sound like an ass

Better to sound like one than be one like you sticking your nose in where nobody was talking to you. Why don't you just put me on ignore. Especially when I am right.

Notice the poster I was responding to didn't say anything but you had to chime in. Might be because my point is 100% valid.

Is there anything I said that wasn't true? If not, let's hear it.

 

[jgeorge322]

Better to sound like one than be one like you sticking your nose in where nobody was talking to you. Why don't you just put me on ignore. Especially when I am right.

Notice the poster I was responding to didn't say anything but you had to chime in. Might be because my point is 100% valid.

Is there anything I said that wasn't true? If not, let's hear it.

A little message board 101: this is a public forum. When you post on here you are talking to everyone. If you want a private message, you DM.

 

[TheCusian]

LOL, last year you are saying that 4-8 USF was a good win? Or was 2-10 Tulsa? Or 6-6 Temple? I will give you 8-5 BYU and 9-4 Cinncinnati as good wins but the rest of the teams they played were garbage outside of UCLA which was a loss I might add. SO, lets add this up, 3 tough teams, the remaining 9 garbage = crap schedule. 2014 SU played Clemson, FSU, Duke, Louisville and ND. That my friend is a tough schedule. Compared to that Memphis 2014 schedule is garbage.

Good points.

I'd add that he just can't make the case it is easier to win here than it is at Memphis. Our ACC schedule > their conference schedule every year on into infinity. Unfortunately our OOC has been pretty tough too.

 

[CuseOnly]

A little message board 101: this is a public forum. When you post on here you are talking to everyone. If you want a private message, you DM.

How about you don't call me out with your opinion on a public message board.