Defense Question

[Cuse181]

because that take was 100% fabricated

Up to you to go back and watch. The jimbo teams excelled based off of athleticism, not fundamentals, hence why the continually struggled against the best teams in the SEC and perennially under achieved.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Think we should go back to the 3-3-5…We have very good LBS lets use them

 

[Idiocuse22&]

Been saying this since I rewatched.

Wax was consistently out of place.

we need barron and the safeties to make really quick reads it seems like, gotta pinch down on runs. Im thinking in this system the DL really has to dominate their jobs. The linebackers have to be big, smart and fast. The star has to be very high football iq, no mistakes.
I guess one game isnt a big enough sample to judge. Saturday I think we will learn alot.

Maybe the philosophy of this Def is literally bend dont break. 1st impression thats what it seems like. Maybe a good compliment with an offense that im thinking can score at will with some risk potentially, if needed.

Hold em to mostly FGs and score mostly TDs...we shall see.
If true, if you can accomplish that? Stress TOs. If you do both, youll never lose.

 

[DomeHolmes]

First time poster here. I’m now retired and have a little free time. I’ve always enjoyed this forum, Especially posts by guys like Money who have great insight. The two topics I wanted to touch on were defensive mistakes and if Fran was “outcoached.”

There’s a lot of questions as to what errors were scheme and what were player mistakes, and many of the comments here refer to “cleaning things up”. For some of our personnel, it may be easier said than done. Some can be cleaned up but some probably can’t. For upperclassmen, Deuces angles, Grant diving at feet, and McDonald’s struggle to get off blocks and read plays probably are what they are. (All three are playing new positions, but the film does not lie. There are some bad habits, instincts, techniques, and physical abilities that cannot likely be changed) I could certainly be wrong, but I think all three of these guys will probably have less playing time by October . (especially on running downs.)

Then there are structural things that can be cleaned up. For example, with only two linebackers in our system, when a defensive end crashes down the line of scrimmage, it’s only human nature for the linebacker to assume the play is going in that direction, and following the DE, he vacates any “contain“ he might have. On most of the big off tackle runs, this is what happened. Either the DE failed to set the edge or the linebacker failed to contain, or often both. This is why to run that 4-2 defense you absolutely need 4 DUDES on the DL. They need to set the edge and bend the middle. Then linebackers react. (In last year’s defense, McDonald and Wax were playing downhill filling gaps), and the difference between that, and this defense is likely more of a challenge for Wax, McDonald and Barron than I anticipated. (I really wanted to post a picture but couldn’t make it happen, I could not attach a screenshot for whatever reason). for anybody who likes to break down film, this is a great example. At the 3:18 mark of the first period Ohio had a third and four. There were some posters saying that Diggs was out of position and Ohio took advantage of his aggressiveness, and we were “out coached” by their coach/line coach. If you watch how this play unfolded, Diggs was doing what pass rushers do, (get upfield on a passing down) and both defensive tackles were in the A gaps as they should be, but so were both Wax and Barron. (McDonald was covering the tight end). If you freeze the tape at the 3:15 mark, you will see 4 Cuse defenders in a 2 yard area between the Ohio guards, and essentially Wax and Barron took themselves out of the play. Either Wax, who started on that side, should’ve taken the five hole, or Barron should’ve started farther back and been able to read and react. This is a great example, but there were so many examples of linebackers being out of place, and on the defensive line, Diggs was by far the biggest culprit of not setting the edge. (perhaps his reputation as a third down and long specialist would be accurate, but other ends were both more aggressive, and controlled the edge better. These things should be able to be cleaned up. The linebackers need to trust the defensive line more than they ever did and hopefully that will come in time. I thought for the most part the defensive line actually did a good job except for a few miss cues by defensive ends

On the defensive line, I thought Diggs actually did way too much reading and reacting and got pushed out of plays. (On Tyus’ long cutback run, he never engaged the right tackle and ultimately was on his heels, and got pushed out of position), that, of course, was before the terrible tackling in the secondary. Watson generally did a good job pushing the pile and of course, getting his hand up. The two guys I thought performed the best were Jobity, who blew up lots of plays, and Simmons, who consistently set the edge and stood his ground and did not over persue.

in the secondary, I thought Cinco was the only one who really distinguished himself. Making lots of good tackles many of them solo.

There were a few posters that seemed to think that Fran got out coached, but most disagreed. I am in that camp as well . Ohio had a very good offensive line coach, and very good schemes, and very good execution, and it still was not nearly enough. If it weren’t for the blatant holding penalty that was not called on sparrow and the illegal hands to the face on Washington, we are looking at a 45 to 16 game. (Their QB also fumbled in the first quarter although a very close call, but that’s another three points there).

All in all, Fran had his safeties playing very deep most of the game. And although the goal was to not give up long pass plays, the net result was giving up long run plays. But once we got the lead, there was no need to change that defense, even though it was not working particularly well. our goal line defense when the safeties were up tight was night and day different. As for the concern about their slot Receiver, Owen, we gave him lots of underneath stuff by design. His two big plays were a slant where Deuce allowed him the slant and should’ve tackled him after four or 5 yards, but was not quick enough, and there was no middle safety, resulting in a long play. That was a player mistake, not scheme. His other big catch was over the middle when we were in sort of a Tampa 2 scheme. The ball was thrown perfectly over the linebacker (who I believe was Heard) but the big breakdown was that he was the only receiver on a deep route and both deep safeties were 20 yards from Owen when he caught the ball. Because of the scheme it’s too hard to grade our pass defense, but I certainly would like to see more press coverage. But Fran Brown was certainly not out coached. I predict Ohio despite all of their personnel losses, will still be a good team. I am going to reverse tease Syracuse and Ohio this week as both are slight dogs.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot of thoughts to get out.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I agree, we need about 3-4 stops or only fg possessions in a game and I would be comfortable with our offense being almost unstoppable.

If our defense comes on line throughout the season and our offense is still humming, no one will want to play us in November

Every one always says that their team will improve. That is meaningless. The relevant question is whether their team will improve more than others.

 

[Cusefan69]

First time poster here. I’m now retired and have a little free time. I’ve always enjoyed this forum, Especially posts by guys like Money who have great insight. The two topics I wanted to touch on were defensive mistakes and if Fran was “outcoached.”

There’s a lot of questions as to what errors were scheme and what were player mistakes, and many of the comments here refer to “cleaning things up”. For some of our personnel, it may be easier said than done. Some can be cleaned up but some probably can’t. For upperclassmen, Deuces angles, Grant diving at feet, and McDonald’s struggle to get off blocks and read plays probably are what they are. (All three are playing new positions, but the film does not lie. There are some bad habits, instincts, techniques, and physical abilities that cannot likely be changed) I could certainly be wrong, but I think all three of these guys will probably have less playing time by October . (especially on running downs.)

Then there are structural things that can be cleaned up. For example, with only two linebackers in our system, when a defensive end crashes down the line of scrimmage, it’s only human nature for the linebacker to assume the play is going in that direction, and following the DE, he vacates any “contain“ he might have. On most of the big off tackle runs, this is what happened. Either the DE failed to set the edge or the linebacker failed to contain, or often both. This is why to run that 4-2 defense you absolutely need 4 DUDES on the DL. They need to set the edge and bend the middle. Then linebackers react. (In last year’s defense, McDonald and Wax were playing downhill filling gaps), and the difference between that, and this defense is likely more of a challenge for Wax, McDonald and Barron than I anticipated. (I really wanted to post a picture but couldn’t make it happen, I could not attach a screenshot for whatever reason). for anybody who likes to break down film, this is a great example. At the 3:18 mark of the first period Ohio had a third and four. There were some posters saying that Diggs was out of position and Ohio took advantage of his aggressiveness, and we were “out coached” by their coach/line coach. If you watch how this play unfolded, Diggs was doing what pass rushers do, (get upfield on a passing down) and both defensive tackles were in the A gaps as they should be, but so were both Wax and Barron. (McDonald was covering the tight end). If you freeze the tape at the 3:15 mark, you will see 4 Cuse defenders in a 2 yard area between the Ohio guards, and essentially Wax and Barron took themselves out of the play. Either Wax, who started on that side, should’ve taken the five hole, or Barron should’ve started farther back and been able to read and react. This is a great example, but there were so many examples of linebackers being out of place, and on the defensive line, Diggs was by far the biggest culprit of not setting the edge. (perhaps his reputation as a third down and long specialist would be accurate, but other ends were both more aggressive, and controlled the edge better. These things should be able to be cleaned up. The linebackers need to trust the defensive line more than they ever did and hopefully that will come in time. I thought for the most part the defensive line actually did a good job except for a few miss cues by defensive ends

On the defensive line, I thought Diggs actually did way too much reading and reacting and got pushed out of plays. (On Tyus’ long cutback run, he never engaged the right tackle and ultimately was on his heels, and got pushed out of position), that, of course, was before the terrible tackling in the secondary. Watson generally did a good job pushing the pile and of course, getting his hand up. The two guys I thought performed the best were Jobity, who blew up lots of plays, and Simmons, who consistently set the edge and stood his ground and did not over persue.

in the secondary, I thought Cinco was the only one who really distinguished himself. Making lots of good tackles many of them solo.

There were a few posters that seemed to think that Fran got out coached, but most disagreed. I am in that camp as well . Ohio had a very good offensive line coach, and very good schemes, and very good execution, and it still was not nearly enough. If it weren’t for the blatant holding penalty that was not called on sparrow and the illegal hands to the face on Washington, we are looking at a 45 to 16 game. (Their QB also fumbled in the first quarter although a very close call, but that’s another three points there).

All in all, Fran had his safeties playing very deep most of the game. And although the goal was to not give up long pass plays, the net result was giving up long run plays. But once we got the lead, there was no need to change that defense, even though it was not working particularly well. our goal line defense when the safeties were up tight was night and day different. As for the concern about their slot Receiver, Owen, we gave him lots of underneath stuff by design. His two big plays were a slant where Deuce allowed him the slant and should’ve tackled him after four or 5 yards, but was not quick enough, and there was no middle safety, resulting in a long play. That was a player mistake, not scheme. His other big catch was over the middle when we were in sort of a Tampa 2 scheme. The ball was thrown perfectly over the linebacker (who I believe was Heard) but the big breakdown was that he was the only receiver on a deep route and both deep safeties were 20 yards from Owen when he caught the ball. Because of the scheme it’s too hard to grade our pass defense, but I certainly would like to see more press coverage. But Fran Brown was certainly not out coached. I predict Ohio despite all of their personnel losses, will still be a good team. I am going to reverse tease Syracuse and Ohio this week as both are slight dogs.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot of thoughts to get out.

Welcome to the discussion man!

 

[JRHEETER]

First time poster here. I’m now retired and have a little free time. I’ve always enjoyed this forum, Especially posts by guys like Money who have great insight. The two topics I wanted to touch on were defensive mistakes and if Fran was “outcoached.”

There’s a lot of questions as to what errors were scheme and what were player mistakes, and many of the comments here refer to “cleaning things up”. For some of our personnel, it may be easier said than done. Some can be cleaned up but some probably can’t. For upperclassmen, Deuces angles, Grant diving at feet, and McDonald’s struggle to get off blocks and read plays probably are what they are. (All three are playing new positions, but the film does not lie. There are some bad habits, instincts, techniques, and physical abilities that cannot likely be changed) I could certainly be wrong, but I think all three of these guys will probably have less playing time by October . (especially on running downs.)

Then there are structural things that can be cleaned up. For example, with only two linebackers in our system, when a defensive end crashes down the line of scrimmage, it’s only human nature for the linebacker to assume the play is going in that direction, and following the DE, he vacates any “contain“ he might have. On most of the big off tackle runs, this is what happened. Either the DE failed to set the edge or the linebacker failed to contain, or often both. This is why to run that 4-2 defense you absolutely need 4 DUDES on the DL. They need to set the edge and bend the middle. Then linebackers react. (In last year’s defense, McDonald and Wax were playing downhill filling gaps), and the difference between that, and this defense is likely more of a challenge for Wax, McDonald and Barron than I anticipated. (I really wanted to post a picture but couldn’t make it happen, I could not attach a screenshot for whatever reason). for anybody who likes to break down film, this is a great example. At the 3:18 mark of the first period Ohio had a third and four. There were some posters saying that Diggs was out of position and Ohio took advantage of his aggressiveness, and we were “out coached” by their coach/line coach. If you watch how this play unfolded, Diggs was doing what pass rushers do, (get upfield on a passing down) and both defensive tackles were in the A gaps as they should be, but so were both Wax and Barron. (McDonald was covering the tight end). If you freeze the tape at the 3:15 mark, you will see 4 Cuse defenders in a 2 yard area between the Ohio guards, and essentially Wax and Barron took themselves out of the play. Either Wax, who started on that side, should’ve taken the five hole, or Barron should’ve started farther back and been able to read and react. This is a great example, but there were so many examples of linebackers being out of place, and on the defensive line, Diggs was by far the biggest culprit of not setting the edge. (perhaps his reputation as a third down and long specialist would be accurate, but other ends were both more aggressive, and controlled the edge better. These things should be able to be cleaned up. The linebackers need to trust the defensive line more than they ever did and hopefully that will come in time. I thought for the most part the defensive line actually did a good job except for a few miss cues by defensive ends

On the defensive line, I thought Diggs actually did way too much reading and reacting and got pushed out of plays. (On Tyus’ long cutback run, he never engaged the right tackle and ultimately was on his heels, and got pushed out of position), that, of course, was before the terrible tackling in the secondary. Watson generally did a good job pushing the pile and of course, getting his hand up. The two guys I thought performed the best were Jobity, who blew up lots of plays, and Simmons, who consistently set the edge and stood his ground and did not over persue.

in the secondary, I thought Cinco was the only one who really distinguished himself. Making lots of good tackles many of them solo.

There were a few posters that seemed to think that Fran got out coached, but most disagreed. I am in that camp as well . Ohio had a very good offensive line coach, and very good schemes, and very good execution, and it still was not nearly enough. If it weren’t for the blatant holding penalty that was not called on sparrow and the illegal hands to the face on Washington, we are looking at a 45 to 16 game. (Their QB also fumbled in the first quarter although a very close call, but that’s another three points there).

All in all, Fran had his safeties playing very deep most of the game. And although the goal was to not give up long pass plays, the net result was giving up long run plays. But once we got the lead, there was no need to change that defense, even though it was not working particularly well. our goal line defense when the safeties were up tight was night and day different. As for the concern about their slot Receiver, Owen, we gave him lots of underneath stuff by design. His two big plays were a slant where Deuce allowed him the slant and should’ve tackled him after four or 5 yards, but was not quick enough, and there was no middle safety, resulting in a long play. That was a player mistake, not scheme. His other big catch was over the middle when we were in sort of a Tampa 2 scheme. The ball was thrown perfectly over the linebacker (who I believe was Heard) but the big breakdown was that he was the only receiver on a deep route and both deep safeties were 20 yards from Owen when he caught the ball. Because of the scheme it’s too hard to grade our pass defense, but I certainly would like to see more press coverage. But Fran Brown was certainly not out coached. I predict Ohio despite all of their personnel losses, will still be a good team. I am going to reverse tease Syracuse and Ohio this week as both are slight dogs.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot of thoughts to get out.

Great stuff

 

[Niastri]

First time poster here. I’m now retired and have a little free time. I’ve always enjoyed this forum, Especially posts by guys like Money who have great insight. The two topics I wanted to touch on were defensive mistakes and if Fran was “outcoached.”

There’s a lot of questions as to what errors were scheme and what were player mistakes, and many of the comments here refer to “cleaning things up”. For some of our personnel, it may be easier said than done. Some can be cleaned up but some probably can’t. For upperclassmen, Deuces angles, Grant diving at feet, and McDonald’s struggle to get off blocks and read plays probably are what they are. (All three are playing new positions, but the film does not lie. There are some bad habits, instincts, techniques, and physical abilities that cannot likely be changed) I could certainly be wrong, but I think all three of these guys will probably have less playing time by October . (especially on running downs.)

Then there are structural things that can be cleaned up. For example, with only two linebackers in our system, when a defensive end crashes down the line of scrimmage, it’s only human nature for the linebacker to assume the play is going in that direction, and following the DE, he vacates any “contain“ he might have. On most of the big off tackle runs, this is what happened. Either the DE failed to set the edge or the linebacker failed to contain, or often both. This is why to run that 4-2 defense you absolutely need 4 DUDES on the DL. They need to set the edge and bend the middle. Then linebackers react. (In last year’s defense, McDonald and Wax were playing downhill filling gaps), and the difference between that, and this defense is likely more of a challenge for Wax, McDonald and Barron than I anticipated. (I really wanted to post a picture but couldn’t make it happen, I could not attach a screenshot for whatever reason). for anybody who likes to break down film, this is a great example. At the 3:18 mark of the first period Ohio had a third and four. There were some posters saying that Diggs was out of position and Ohio took advantage of his aggressiveness, and we were “out coached” by their coach/line coach. If you watch how this play unfolded, Diggs was doing what pass rushers do, (get upfield on a passing down) and both defensive tackles were in the A gaps as they should be, but so were both Wax and Barron. (McDonald was covering the tight end). If you freeze the tape at the 3:15 mark, you will see 4 Cuse defenders in a 2 yard area between the Ohio guards, and essentially Wax and Barron took themselves out of the play. Either Wax, who started on that side, should’ve taken the five hole, or Barron should’ve started farther back and been able to read and react. This is a great example, but there were so many examples of linebackers being out of place, and on the defensive line, Diggs was by far the biggest culprit of not setting the edge. (perhaps his reputation as a third down and long specialist would be accurate, but other ends were both more aggressive, and controlled the edge better. These things should be able to be cleaned up. The linebackers need to trust the defensive line more than they ever did and hopefully that will come in time. I thought for the most part the defensive line actually did a good job except for a few miss cues by defensive ends

On the defensive line, I thought Diggs actually did way too much reading and reacting and got pushed out of plays. (On Tyus’ long cutback run, he never engaged the right tackle and ultimately was on his heels, and got pushed out of position), that, of course, was before the terrible tackling in the secondary. Watson generally did a good job pushing the pile and of course, getting his hand up. The two guys I thought performed the best were Jobity, who blew up lots of plays, and Simmons, who consistently set the edge and stood his ground and did not over persue.

in the secondary, I thought Cinco was the only one who really distinguished himself. Making lots of good tackles many of them solo.

There were a few posters that seemed to think that Fran got out coached, but most disagreed. I am in that camp as well . Ohio had a very good offensive line coach, and very good schemes, and very good execution, and it still was not nearly enough. If it weren’t for the blatant holding penalty that was not called on sparrow and the illegal hands to the face on Washington, we are looking at a 45 to 16 game. (Their QB also fumbled in the first quarter although a very close call, but that’s another three points there).

All in all, Fran had his safeties playing very deep most of the game. And although the goal was to not give up long pass plays, the net result was giving up long run plays. But once we got the lead, there was no need to change that defense, even though it was not working particularly well. our goal line defense when the safeties were up tight was night and day different. As for the concern about their slot Receiver, Owen, we gave him lots of underneath stuff by design. His two big plays were a slant where Deuce allowed him the slant and should’ve tackled him after four or 5 yards, but was not quick enough, and there was no middle safety, resulting in a long play. That was a player mistake, not scheme. His other big catch was over the middle when we were in sort of a Tampa 2 scheme. The ball was thrown perfectly over the linebacker (who I believe was Heard) but the big breakdown was that he was the only receiver on a deep route and both deep safeties were 20 yards from Owen when he caught the ball. Because of the scheme it’s too hard to grade our pass defense, but I certainly would like to see more press coverage. But Fran Brown was certainly not out coached. I predict Ohio despite all of their personnel losses, will still be a good team. I am going to reverse tease Syracuse and Ohio this week as both are slight dogs.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot of thoughts to get out.

Well...

THAT'S a great first post.

Welcome.

 

[shu 49]

I honestly feel the two inside guys are in my opinion the most important. if u get a1 shade who comands a constant double, ot a double to te backer. He needs to hold 2 guys up all times and the three needs to handle his guy and whatever traps are comin his way. i think this year we just couldnt get the inside guys we need but i tzhink they did ok. Needa big step up this week. I will tell ya thattheyoung guys will be good in a year or two and with proper lifting and yata yata yata yata. they could be studs.

 

[JuiceMeUp]

Think we should go back to the 3-3-5…We have very good LBS lets use them

The whole time I was watching the Ohio game I was like damn...I really miss the 3-3-5 lol. We were so passive and reactionary it was crazy. No creativity or aggressiveness looked like guys were thinking too hard and just trying to not make mistakes. Obviously, this should get better with time, and it was just the first game, so I'll try not to overreact. But we have proven talent that didn't look like they were being put in positions to succeed imo. Fingers crossed the D has a coming out party on Saturday.

 

[DomeHolmes]

I honestly feel the two inside guys are in my opinion the most important. if u get a1 shade who comands a constant double, ot a double to te backer. He needs to hold 2 guys up all times and the three needs to handle his guy and whatever traps are comin his way. i think this year we just couldnt get the inside guys we need but i tzhink they did ok. Needa big step up this week. I will tell ya thattheyoung guys will be good in a year or two and with proper lifting and yata yata yata yata. they could be studs.

 

[DomeHolmes]

Agree with shu. if the linebackers only have to worry about the B gap and C gap, that pretty much solves the problem. All too often, the DTs did their job, but the linebackers were too impatient and played down hill into traffic

 

[money3189]

First time poster here. I’m now retired and have a little free time. I’ve always enjoyed this forum, Especially posts by guys like Money who have great insight. The two topics I wanted to touch on were defensive mistakes and if Fran was “outcoached.”

There’s a lot of questions as to what errors were scheme and what were player mistakes, and many of the comments here refer to “cleaning things up”. For some of our personnel, it may be easier said than done. Some can be cleaned up but some probably can’t. For upperclassmen, Deuces angles, Grant diving at feet, and McDonald’s struggle to get off blocks and read plays probably are what they are. (All three are playing new positions, but the film does not lie. There are some bad habits, instincts, techniques, and physical abilities that cannot likely be changed) I could certainly be wrong, but I think all three of these guys will probably have less playing time by October . (especially on running downs.)

Then there are structural things that can be cleaned up. For example, with only two linebackers in our system, when a defensive end crashes down the line of scrimmage, it’s only human nature for the linebacker to assume the play is going in that direction, and following the DE, he vacates any “contain“ he might have. On most of the big off tackle runs, this is what happened. Either the DE failed to set the edge or the linebacker failed to contain, or often both. This is why to run that 4-2 defense you absolutely need 4 DUDES on the DL. They need to set the edge and bend the middle. Then linebackers react. (In last year’s defense, McDonald and Wax were playing downhill filling gaps), and the difference between that, and this defense is likely more of a challenge for Wax, McDonald and Barron than I anticipated. (I really wanted to post a picture but couldn’t make it happen, I could not attach a screenshot for whatever reason). for anybody who likes to break down film, this is a great example. At the 3:18 mark of the first period Ohio had a third and four. There were some posters saying that Diggs was out of position and Ohio took advantage of his aggressiveness, and we were “out coached” by their coach/line coach. If you watch how this play unfolded, Diggs was doing what pass rushers do, (get upfield on a passing down) and both defensive tackles were in the A gaps as they should be, but so were both Wax and Barron. (McDonald was covering the tight end). If you freeze the tape at the 3:15 mark, you will see 4 Cuse defenders in a 2 yard area between the Ohio guards, and essentially Wax and Barron took themselves out of the play. Either Wax, who started on that side, should’ve taken the five hole, or Barron should’ve started farther back and been able to read and react. This is a great example, but there were so many examples of linebackers being out of place, and on the defensive line, Diggs was by far the biggest culprit of not setting the edge. (perhaps his reputation as a third down and long specialist would be accurate, but other ends were both more aggressive, and controlled the edge better. These things should be able to be cleaned up. The linebackers need to trust the defensive line more than they ever did and hopefully that will come in time. I thought for the most part the defensive line actually did a good job except for a few miss cues by defensive ends

On the defensive line, I thought Diggs actually did way too much reading and reacting and got pushed out of plays. (On Tyus’ long cutback run, he never engaged the right tackle and ultimately was on his heels, and got pushed out of position), that, of course, was before the terrible tackling in the secondary. Watson generally did a good job pushing the pile and of course, getting his hand up. The two guys I thought performed the best were Jobity, who blew up lots of plays, and Simmons, who consistently set the edge and stood his ground and did not over persue.

in the secondary, I thought Cinco was the only one who really distinguished himself. Making lots of good tackles many of them solo.

There were a few posters that seemed to think that Fran got out coached, but most disagreed. I am in that camp as well . Ohio had a very good offensive line coach, and very good schemes, and very good execution, and it still was not nearly enough. If it weren’t for the blatant holding penalty that was not called on sparrow and the illegal hands to the face on Washington, we are looking at a 45 to 16 game. (Their QB also fumbled in the first quarter although a very close call, but that’s another three points there).

All in all, Fran had his safeties playing very deep most of the game. And although the goal was to not give up long pass plays, the net result was giving up long run plays. But once we got the lead, there was no need to change that defense, even though it was not working particularly well. our goal line defense when the safeties were up tight was night and day different. As for the concern about their slot Receiver, Owen, we gave him lots of underneath stuff by design. His two big plays were a slant where Deuce allowed him the slant and should’ve tackled him after four or 5 yards, but was not quick enough, and there was no middle safety, resulting in a long play. That was a player mistake, not scheme. His other big catch was over the middle when we were in sort of a Tampa 2 scheme. The ball was thrown perfectly over the linebacker (who I believe was Heard) but the big breakdown was that he was the only receiver on a deep route and both deep safeties were 20 yards from Owen when he caught the ball. Because of the scheme it’s too hard to grade our pass defense, but I certainly would like to see more press coverage. But Fran Brown was certainly not out coached. I predict Ohio despite all of their personnel losses, will still be a good team. I am going to reverse tease Syracuse and Ohio this week as both are slight dogs.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot of thoughts to get out.

You couldnt have been more detailed and informative than that. Great stuff. Appreciate you breaking things down. I like when they went to 3 down lineman with the 4i's. Seem like they used it inside the redzone. Maybe run that a little vs GT to defend the power plays?

 

[GoSU96]

You couldnt have been more detailed and informative than that. Great stuff. Appreciate you breaking things down. I like when they went to 3 down lineman with the 4i's. Seem like they used it inside the redzone. Maybe run that a little vs GT to defend the power plays?

Are referencing 3 down and Diggs standing up? LSU used that front a lot. I think SU used it in all parts of the field.

 

[GoSU96]

First time poster here. I’m now retired and have a little free time. I’ve always enjoyed this forum, Especially posts by guys like Money who have great insight. The two topics I wanted to touch on were defensive mistakes and if Fran was “outcoached.”

There’s a lot of questions as to what errors were scheme and what were player mistakes, and many of the comments here refer to “cleaning things up”. For some of our personnel, it may be easier said than done. Some can be cleaned up but some probably can’t. For upperclassmen, Deuces angles, Grant diving at feet, and McDonald’s struggle to get off blocks and read plays probably are what they are. (All three are playing new positions, but the film does not lie. There are some bad habits, instincts, techniques, and physical abilities that cannot likely be changed) I could certainly be wrong, but I think all three of these guys will probably have less playing time by October . (especially on running downs.)

Then there are structural things that can be cleaned up. For example, with only two linebackers in our system, when a defensive end crashes down the line of scrimmage, it’s only human nature for the linebacker to assume the play is going in that direction, and following the DE, he vacates any “contain“ he might have. On most of the big off tackle runs, this is what happened. Either the DE failed to set the edge or the linebacker failed to contain, or often both. This is why to run that 4-2 defense you absolutely need 4 DUDES on the DL. They need to set the edge and bend the middle. Then linebackers react. (In last year’s defense, McDonald and Wax were playing downhill filling gaps), and the difference between that, and this defense is likely more of a challenge for Wax, McDonald and Barron than I anticipated. (I really wanted to post a picture but couldn’t make it happen, I could not attach a screenshot for whatever reason). for anybody who likes to break down film, this is a great example. At the 3:18 mark of the first period Ohio had a third and four. There were some posters saying that Diggs was out of position and Ohio took advantage of his aggressiveness, and we were “out coached” by their coach/line coach. If you watch how this play unfolded, Diggs was doing what pass rushers do, (get upfield on a passing down) and both defensive tackles were in the A gaps as they should be, but so were both Wax and Barron. (McDonald was covering the tight end). If you freeze the tape at the 3:15 mark, you will see 4 Cuse defenders in a 2 yard area between the Ohio guards, and essentially Wax and Barron took themselves out of the play. Either Wax, who started on that side, should’ve taken the five hole, or Barron should’ve started farther back and been able to read and react. This is a great example, but there were so many examples of linebackers being out of place, and on the defensive line, Diggs was by far the biggest culprit of not setting the edge. (perhaps his reputation as a third down and long specialist would be accurate, but other ends were both more aggressive, and controlled the edge better. These things should be able to be cleaned up. The linebackers need to trust the defensive line more than they ever did and hopefully that will come in time. I thought for the most part the defensive line actually did a good job except for a few miss cues by defensive ends

On the defensive line, I thought Diggs actually did way too much reading and reacting and got pushed out of plays. (On Tyus’ long cutback run, he never engaged the right tackle and ultimately was on his heels, and got pushed out of position), that, of course, was before the terrible tackling in the secondary. Watson generally did a good job pushing the pile and of course, getting his hand up. The two guys I thought performed the best were Jobity, who blew up lots of plays, and Simmons, who consistently set the edge and stood his ground and did not over persue.

in the secondary, I thought Cinco was the only one who really distinguished himself. Making lots of good tackles many of them solo.

There were a few posters that seemed to think that Fran got out coached, but most disagreed. I am in that camp as well . Ohio had a very good offensive line coach, and very good schemes, and very good execution, and it still was not nearly enough. If it weren’t for the blatant holding penalty that was not called on sparrow and the illegal hands to the face on Washington, we are looking at a 45 to 16 game. (Their QB also fumbled in the first quarter although a very close call, but that’s another three points there).

All in all, Fran had his safeties playing very deep most of the game. And although the goal was to not give up long pass plays, the net result was giving up long run plays. But once we got the lead, there was no need to change that defense, even though it was not working particularly well. our goal line defense when the safeties were up tight was night and day different. As for the concern about their slot Receiver, Owen, we gave him lots of underneath stuff by design. His two big plays were a slant where Deuce allowed him the slant and should’ve tackled him after four or 5 yards, but was not quick enough, and there was no middle safety, resulting in a long play. That was a player mistake, not scheme. His other big catch was over the middle when we were in sort of a Tampa 2 scheme. The ball was thrown perfectly over the linebacker (who I believe was Heard) but the big breakdown was that he was the only receiver on a deep route and both deep safeties were 20 yards from Owen when he caught the ball. Because of the scheme it’s too hard to grade our pass defense, but I certainly would like to see more press coverage. But Fran Brown was certainly not out coached. I predict Ohio despite all of their personnel losses, will still be a good team. I am going to reverse tease Syracuse and Ohio this week as both are slight dogs.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot of thoughts to get out.

I would think that if Diggs is going to work up field the outside next level guy to that side is covering the C gap, instead as you noted they were getting washed in the pile leaving cut backs wide open .

 

[mark79]

First time poster here. I’m now retired and have a little free time. I’ve always enjoyed this forum, Especially posts by guys like Money who have great insight. The two topics I wanted to touch on were defensive mistakes and if Fran was “outcoached.”

There’s a lot of questions as to what errors were scheme and what were player mistakes, and many of the comments here refer to “cleaning things up”. For some of our personnel, it may be easier said than done. Some can be cleaned up but some probably can’t. For upperclassmen, Deuces angles, Grant diving at feet, and McDonald’s struggle to get off blocks and read plays probably are what they are. (All three are playing new positions, but the film does not lie. There are some bad habits, instincts, techniques, and physical abilities that cannot likely be changed) I could certainly be wrong, but I think all three of these guys will probably have less playing time by October . (especially on running downs.)

Then there are structural things that can be cleaned up. For example, with only two linebackers in our system, when a defensive end crashes down the line of scrimmage, it’s only human nature for the linebacker to assume the play is going in that direction, and following the DE, he vacates any “contain“ he might have. On most of the big off tackle runs, this is what happened. Either the DE failed to set the edge or the linebacker failed to contain, or often both. This is why to run that 4-2 defense you absolutely need 4 DUDES on the DL. They need to set the edge and bend the middle. Then linebackers react. (In last year’s defense, McDonald and Wax were playing downhill filling gaps), and the difference between that, and this defense is likely more of a challenge for Wax, McDonald and Barron than I anticipated. (I really wanted to post a picture but couldn’t make it happen, I could not attach a screenshot for whatever reason). for anybody who likes to break down film, this is a great example. At the 3:18 mark of the first period Ohio had a third and four. There were some posters saying that Diggs was out of position and Ohio took advantage of his aggressiveness, and we were “out coached” by their coach/line coach. If you watch how this play unfolded, Diggs was doing what pass rushers do, (get upfield on a passing down) and both defensive tackles were in the A gaps as they should be, but so were both Wax and Barron. (McDonald was covering the tight end). If you freeze the tape at the 3:15 mark, you will see 4 Cuse defenders in a 2 yard area between the Ohio guards, and essentially Wax and Barron took themselves out of the play. Either Wax, who started on that side, should’ve taken the five hole, or Barron should’ve started farther back and been able to read and react. This is a great example, but there were so many examples of linebackers being out of place, and on the defensive line, Diggs was by far the biggest culprit of not setting the edge. (perhaps his reputation as a third down and long specialist would be accurate, but other ends were both more aggressive, and controlled the edge better. These things should be able to be cleaned up. The linebackers need to trust the defensive line more than they ever did and hopefully that will come in time. I thought for the most part the defensive line actually did a good job except for a few miss cues by defensive ends

On the defensive line, I thought Diggs actually did way too much reading and reacting and got pushed out of plays. (On Tyus’ long cutback run, he never engaged the right tackle and ultimately was on his heels, and got pushed out of position), that, of course, was before the terrible tackling in the secondary. Watson generally did a good job pushing the pile and of course, getting his hand up. The two guys I thought performed the best were Jobity, who blew up lots of plays, and Simmons, who consistently set the edge and stood his ground and did not over persue.

in the secondary, I thought Cinco was the only one who really distinguished himself. Making lots of good tackles many of them solo.

There were a few posters that seemed to think that Fran got out coached, but most disagreed. I am in that camp as well . Ohio had a very good offensive line coach, and very good schemes, and very good execution, and it still was not nearly enough. If it weren’t for the blatant holding penalty that was not called on sparrow and the illegal hands to the face on Washington, we are looking at a 45 to 16 game. (Their QB also fumbled in the first quarter although a very close call, but that’s another three points there).

All in all, Fran had his safeties playing very deep most of the game. And although the goal was to not give up long pass plays, the net result was giving up long run plays. But once we got the lead, there was no need to change that defense, even though it was not working particularly well. our goal line defense when the safeties were up tight was night and day different. As for the concern about their slot Receiver, Owen, we gave him lots of underneath stuff by design. His two big plays were a slant where Deuce allowed him the slant and should’ve tackled him after four or 5 yards, but was not quick enough, and there was no middle safety, resulting in a long play. That was a player mistake, not scheme. His other big catch was over the middle when we were in sort of a Tampa 2 scheme. The ball was thrown perfectly over the linebacker (who I believe was Heard) but the big breakdown was that he was the only receiver on a deep route and both deep safeties were 20 yards from Owen when he caught the ball. Because of the scheme it’s too hard to grade our pass defense, but I certainly would like to see more press coverage. But Fran Brown was certainly not out coached. I predict Ohio despite all of their personnel losses, will still be a good team. I am going to reverse tease Syracuse and Ohio this week as both are slight dogs.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot of thoughts to get out.

Great post. Love to read in-depth analysis like this.

 

[money3189]

Are referencing 3 down and Diggs standing up? LSU used that front a lot. I think SU used it in all parts of the field.

Yes, but with two 4i's on both sides. That's different from the odd front with a jack on the edge. Im not so sure they played double 4i outside the redzone.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Think we should go back to the 3-3-5…We have very good LBS lets use them

Outside of wax… who?

 

[SmilinBob]

Yes, but with two 4i's on both sides. That's different from the odd front with a jack on the edge. Im not so sure they played double 4i outside the redzone.

What's the i stand for in 4i?

 

[money3189]

What's the i stand for in 4i?

Inside shade. The D lineman are inside shade of the offensive tackles.

 

[Niastri]

I found it interesting that one of Diggs sacks was on a play where he dropped back into coverage.

It seems like there are a host of tricks that they haven't tried to use yet, since everybody is still getting used to the base defense.

 

[upperdeck]

I think the physical play on the lines can be cleaned up.

The DL did not get blown back very often, thats a good thing.. But they also didnt get off the blocks once they contained the OL and they struggled to slow down the RBs who often just took the slow route and found cutbacks because the LBs were out of position.

The OL did drive Ohio back but they didn't finish the blocks enough because the Ohio DL did get off blocks and runs went for 3 instead of 5-6.

Lets see how many TFLs we see this week on both sides. 10 is a solid number for a team to get but still allowing 250 rushing yds is bad.

 

[Oakland]

Trying to learn here.

Are the concerns y'all saw on defense something you think can be improved week-by-week with some DART and practice? BC running hard made me a little nervous. First game and all, but have never been more interested in understanding aspects of the game I don’t fully understand.

I thought there was a strong consensus that the defense would be bigger, stronger, and faster this season. I didn't see it in the game and there is little talk about it here. Thoughts?

 

[SUbear]

Yes of course it can be fixed. One thing not mentioned that I saw was there was a lot of guys rotating in and out. That will slow as guys don’t do what they should.

Keep in mind, Ohio has an NFL caliber back and a mobile QB so those are 2 tough asks in game 1.

Fran and team will clean up the slop

Well GT also has a top level back and QB who can run.

 

[SUbear]

Yup. I think it's reasonable to expect that defense will get better at executing the scheme and playing with better discipline. Now that they have analyzed the Ohio tape, this will be, or needs to be, a big learning week for the players and the staff. By staff "learning" that doesn't mean understanding fundamentals and tackling techniques - those takes in this thread are simply off and not the issue. Self scouting and understanding what the players can do physically and mentally is where the learning will take place. Player improvement on defense will be a process and not a "light goes off" kind of thing.

As you said, there is no guarantee this team will be good at run defense. The defense I saw Saturday has more issues than run defense. Maybe that was more about game 1/new staff stuff. Pass coverage, in particular from the safeties, was not good when Ohio spread them out. Team speed on defense doesn't get talked about much, but I think this is a red flag. I dislike singling out players, but Barron, McDonald, Deuce HAVE to make plays. Too often Saturday they seemed to be a step late.

I expect improved defense, and better execution from the OL, after all that was a first game with new everything. The question is how much, and who wins turnovers. The home advantage is ours. I think it is a close game that we win by a field goal to a touch.