Depth Chart Speculation

[PhatOrange]

It's also adjusting to the speed of the D-1 game and making good, quick decisions. Don't forget, the OL has looked better the last 2 years when Welch and Culpepper have been in the game.

well actually if you go back and watch the culpepper games from last year (just some of the condensed versions) you'll see they ended up really dumbing down the playbook for culpepper and gave him all quick one read plays. It's more or less why Taj caught 19 balls in the last two games.

culpepper was the worst QB I've ever seen under a syracuse center.

 

[TheCusian]

It's also adjusting to the speed of the D-1 game and making good, quick decisions. Don't forget, the OL has looked better the last 2 years when Welch and Culpepper have been in the game.

I don’t think that is true, both those guys got blown up plenty and Culpepper was a TO machine under pressure.

Very few guys could excel with OL we fielded last year

 

[IthacaMatt]

even if the WR isn't open?

You've never heard of throwing the ball out of bounds instead of taking the sack?
I was a QB and a punt returner in HS for a varsity team that wasn't very good.
I got creamed more times than I can count.
I learned to feel the defense and react accordingly. (Save your ass)

 

[PhatOrange]

You've never heard of throwing the ball out of bounds instead of taking the sack?
I was a QB and a punt returner in HS for a varsity team that wasn't very good.
I got creamed more times than I can count.
I learned to feel the defense and react accordingly. (Save your ass)

His problem is he's trying to make plays but he's not very good at adlibbing and making plays. Him throwing the ball out of bounds was an adventure in and of itself.

 

[SuFTW]

1. Maybe they did? 2020 was so messed up I’m not sure how to evaluate well. Injuries + COVID + Cav + existing TD issues = not sure where the blame lies

2. They recruited a capable backup transfer (tried, guy went to South Fl)?

You were asking me what I would have done.

 

[money3189]

It was one of many reasons why they brought in Shrader. Tommy hasn't proven he can last a season and throwing freshman to the wolves was ridiculous. If you think it was just for the reasons you mention you're wrong.

When did I say it was the only reason? Of course I don’t think it’s the only reason. But is that what we were talking about?

 

[Sudano]

even if the WR isn't open?

Yes. Most times you can't wait until you see the receiver open then throw, it's too late.
This is what TD is weak at, reading a defense pre-snap to know where the gaps and windows will be and the route being run. Throw to open space knowing your receiver will be there, as he comes out of the break covered, then he becomes uncovered when the ball is in the air.

 

[orangepassion]

well actually if you go back and watch the culpepper games from last year (just some of the condensed versions) you'll see they ended up really dumbing down the playbook for culpepper and gave him all quick one read plays. It's more or less why Taj caught 19 balls in the last two games.

culpepper was the worst QB I've ever seen under a syracuse center.

I'm not saying Culpepper was a better or even a decent QB. Just that he got rid of the ball quicker and made an occasional throw on the run, making the OL look better. He had lots of other issues, such as inaccuracy etc.

 

[RMH44]

His problem is he's trying to make plays but he's not very good at adlibbing and making plays. Him throwing the ball out of bounds was an adventure in and of itself.

...especially on 4th down...more than once.

 

[TheCusian]

You were asking me what I would have done.

Ok. I’ll play. What *exactly* would you have done. Your last post was vague. Thanks.

 

[Chip]

You've never heard of throwing the ball out of bounds instead of taking the sack?

That's the problem. It's one or the other. He throws it out of bounds all the time. And after the half hearted efforts to do this in the 2019 Maryland/Clemson back to back games led to INTs, he now immediately heaves it into the 10th row.

If he could move out of the pocket, keep eyes downfield, and if the WRs could continue to work to get open, his whole world would open up.

Here's to hoping that light bulb goes off in year 5, as it has for other SU QBs. Protection should be better, but it's never going to be that great. Too many good DCs these days that will find a way.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Culpepper got rid of the ball a lot faster than TD. TD was sacked like 3x as much. Even when Morgan was in there he dinked and dunked down the field a few times

I feel like Tommy just wants to replay the UNC game every time he’s in there and bomb away

 

[SuFTW]

Ok. I’ll play. What *exactly* would you have done. Your last post was vague. Thanks.

Nah, not playing your game anymore. You keep trying to stretch this out. Give it a rest. You asked if I would have made changes and I took your bait and said yes.

I don’t know what they were doing with Devito, but there is consensus here he needs to work on his game and he hasn’t progressed in some areas. Seems pretty logical that he needs more help and what they had done before wasn’t enough.

Why do you feel the need to pursue and question this without offering anything of substance yourself other than trying to put me on the defensive?

 

[GoSU96]

Culpepper got rid of the ball a lot faster than TD. TD was sacked like 3x as much. Even when Morgan was in there he dinked and dunked down the field a few times

I feel like Tommy just wants to replay the UNC game every time he’s in there and bomb away

yeah he got rid of the ball, to the other team

 

[dasher]

yeah he got rid of the ball, to the other team

nit pick

 

[TheCusian]

Nah, not playing your game anymore. You keep trying to stretch this out. Give it a rest. You asked if I would have made changes and I took your bait and said yes.

I don’t know what they were doing with Devito, but there is consensus here he needs to work on his game and he hasn’t progressed in some areas. Seems pretty logical that he needs more help and what they had done before wasn’t enough.

Why do you feel the need to pursue and question this without offering anything of substance yourself other than trying to put me on the defensive?

Ok? I was looking for more specifics on what you’d have done after the 2019 season. Your opinion.

I don’t have an axe to grind with you. I’m honestly curious.

I offered my take in the one you responded to. Happy to recap with some added stuff:

- 2019 was a tough year to judge, but obviously TD was under duress. Some of that was bad OL play with a new OL coach and some of that is TD holding the ball, not reading quick enough, etc.

- What can you do? Fire the OL coach after one year? Bench the best thrower of the football on the team? Recruit a bunch of JUCO OL? None of these are good solutions, IMO - that’s why I asked what you’d have done.

- The base point for me is - I don’t think, after watching TD and the OL in practice and then in 2019, the staff thought “we’re good, let’s just keep doing what we’re doing and hope it works out in 2020”... I’m confident they tried to address some of the issues or would have if 2020 spring hadn’t blown up due to COVID.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

yeah he got rid of the ball, to the other team

Haha true. I’m just saying Tommy had twice as many sacks as Rex in half as many games. And their completion % was the same. Yes Rex had 8 interceptions which is not good

But was the O line really twice as good once Rex came in or did Rex get rid of the ball faster?

 

[JackBauer44]

Haha true. I’m just saying Tommy had twice as many sacks as Rex in half as many games. And their completion % was the same. Yes Rex had 8 interceptions which is not good

But was the O line really twice as good once Rex came in or did Rex get rid of the ball faster?

As eludes to earlier in this thread - I don’t think you can compare apples to oranges here. The playbook was extremely simple for Rex. Make a read, get rid of the ball. If it’s not there, take off.

Tommy has the ability to read multiple progressions. He took sacks because he was trying to go through his reads. I’d kill for Tommy to get a shot with a healthy line. It can happen this year. He deserves it.

 

[TheCusian]

As eludes to earlier in this thread - I don’t think you can compare apples to oranges here. The playbook was extremely simple for Rex. Make a read, get rid of the ball. If it’s not there, take off.

Tommy has the ability to read multiple progressions. He took sacks because he was trying to go through his reads. I’d kill for Tommy to get a shot with a healthy line. It can happen this year. He deserves it.

That and the OL did get better, we got some guys back, run game improved, etc.

 

[SUskibum]

That's the problem. It's one or the other. He throws it out of bounds all the time. And after the half hearted efforts to do this in the 2019 Maryland/Clemson back to back games led to INTs, he now immediately heaves it into the 10th row.

If he could move out of the pocket, keep eyes downfield, and if the WRs could continue to work to get open, his whole world would open up.

Here's to hoping that light bulb goes off in year 5, as it has for other SU QBs. Protection should be better, but it's never going to be that great. Too many good DCs these days that will find a way.

I Know you harp on this a lot, and there is some truth there but if you look at the receivers downfield when the pocket breaks, the majority of the time they completely quit on the play. Its unreal. Reminds me of the basketball team trying to inbounds the ball against WVU late in the game... just 0 effort to get open

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I Know you harp on this a lot, and there is some truth there but if you look at the receivers downfield when the pocket breaks, the majority of the time they completely quit on the play. Its unreal. Reminds me of the basketball team trying to inbounds the ball against WVU late in the game... just 0 effort to get open

Yeah, we need to get better there.

 

[orangepassion]

As eludes to earlier in this thread - I don’t think you can compare apples to oranges here. The playbook was extremely simple for Rex. Make a read, get rid of the ball. If it’s not there, take off.

So simplify the playbook if necessary.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

As eludes to earlier in this thread - I don’t think you can compare apples to oranges here. The playbook was extremely simple for Rex. Make a read, get rid of the ball. If it’s not there, take off.

Tommy has the ability to read multiple progressions. He took sacks because he was trying to go through his reads. I’d kill for Tommy to get a shot with a healthy line. It can happen this year. He deserves it.

I don’t know the intricacies of the offense and I’m certainly not going to die on that hill comparing Rex to TD haha

But from a layman’s view it looks like when Rex and even Jacobian were in we were doing those 5 yard passes that Dungey and Irv excelled at and moved the chains

I hope it all comes together, Tommy seems like a great kid and I’m rooting for him

 

[JackBauer44]

That and the OL did get better, we got some guys back, run game improved, etc.

i agree with that.

 

[JackBauer44]

I don’t know the intricacies of the offense and I’m certainly not going to die on that hill comparing Rex to TD haha

But from a layman’s view it looks like when Rex and even Jacobian were in we were doing those 5 yard passes that Dungey and Irv excelled at and moved the chains

I hope it all comes together, Tommy seems like a great kid and I’m rooting for him

Totally agree. I think there’s definitely something to having a guy who is capable of doing a lot of great things and just expecting him to do it.

I believe there’s an old adage, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I would love to see simpler concepts to get the most out of players.

When I played my one year of football in college, I remember always thinking that there was no reason play calls had to be 6 seconds of words. The less you make players think and allow them to react, I believe is a good thing.