Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[shandeezy7]

McMahon proposes $85M aquarium at Syracuse’s Inner Harbor

Onondaga County Executive Ryan McMahon said the proposal is part of the 2022 proposed county budget.

www.syracuse.com

 

[OrangeXtreme]

McMahon proposes $85M aquarium at Syracuse’s Inner Harbor

Onondaga County Executive Ryan McMahon said the proposal is part of the 2022 proposed county budget.

www.syracuse.com

That's like a zoo for fish.

 

[Fly Rodder]

McMahon proposes $85M aquarium at Syracuse’s Inner Harbor

Onondaga County Executive Ryan McMahon said the proposal is part of the 2022 proposed county budget.

www.syracuse.com

Eh ... I think there are better uses for $85million.

 

[shandeezy7]

Eh ... I think there are better uses for $85million.

Probably, but I also think that development of the Inner Harbor area is a necessity. It's unfortunate that the NY corruption machine landed COR exclusive rights to develop much of that area. Between that and the former Kennedy Square site sitting mostly vacant for a decade plus, it's been mishandled from the top on down.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Anyone remember this? Letter to the editor about the proposal to change Hopkins Park, naturally he is against it

"As one of the founders in 1973, and former vice president, of the Meadows Homeowners Association (MHA) in the Hopkins Road area during the period 1973-1975, I believe McMahon’s proposal, if approved by the county Legislature, may soon experience the same kind of homeowner opposition witnessed in the mid-1970s, when Syracuse University announced its plans to construct the Carrier Dome on the Hopkins Road softball fields."

Onondaga County never consulted neighbors about Hopkins Road soccer complex (Your Letters)

County Executive Ryan McMahon underestimates project's impact on residents and their ability to organize opposition.

www.syracuse.com

 

[PartTimeFan]

Probably, but I also think that development of the Inner Harbor area is a necessity. It's unfortunate that the NY corruption machine landed COR exclusive rights to develop much of that area. Between that and the former Kennedy Square site sitting mostly vacant for a decade plus, it's been mishandled from the top on down.

Think we could find something to accomplish this without an albatross of an aquarium. He even admits there will need to be an ongoing operating subsidy to keep this thing afloat.

 

[maxxyz]

Think we could find something to accomplish this without an albatross of an aquarium. He even admits there will need to be an ongoing operating subsidy to keep this thing afloat.

Probably, but I also think that development of the Inner Harbor area is a necessity. It's unfortunate that the NY corruption machine landed COR exclusive rights to develop much of that area. Between that and the former Kennedy Square site sitting mostly vacant for a decade plus, it's been mishandled from the top on down.

I agree with Shandeezy that Inner Harbor development is an imperative. I would like to hear some answers before our local government goes forward with a project that would dramatically affect the growth and future of the most valuable tract of undeveloped land in the city.

$5,000,000 - $8,000,000 a year in operating expenses annually. I'm all for additional zoos & museums and the like, especially if they have an educational component. But he needs to show what the comparable aquariums have for expenses, attendance, and fundraising.

What current aquarium in the US is the template for what is envisioned for the Inner Harbor.

Is this a not for profit organization?

Where is the annual operational money coming from? Taxpayers? 1000 people a day @ $20 a head would cover it, but I don't think they will come close to that.

And where did the $85M construction cost estimate come from? Is there any documentation to back that up? I'm skeptical of projections pulled out of thin air.

How much land does this remove from taxation?

Who benefits from this project? Who makes the money?

And most of all - Why is the Inner Harbor the best location for this project?

 

[sutomcat]

I agree with Shandeezy that Inner Harbor development is an imperative. I would like to hear some answers before our local government goes forward with a project that would dramatically affect the growth and future of the most valuable tract of undeveloped land in the city.

$5,000,000 - $8,000,000 a year in operating expenses annually. I'm all for additional zoos & museums and the like, especially if they have an educational component. But he needs to show what the comparable aquariums have for expenses, attendance, and fundraising.

What current aquarium in the US is the template for what is envisioned for the Inner Harbor.

Is this a not for profit organization?

Where is the annual operational money coming from? Taxpayers? 1000 people a day @ $20 a head would cover it, but I don't think they will come close to that.

And where did the $85M construction cost estimate come from? Is there any documentation to back that up? I'm skeptical of projections pulled out of thin air.

How much land does this remove from taxation?

Who benefits from this project? Who makes the money?

And most of all - Why is the Inner Harbor the best location for this project?

The announcement of the aquarium included a brief mention about a major expansion of Hancock Airport. Pretty exciting stuff. Like the idea of international flights to and from Syracuse.

Also, did not know Southwest is already adding a daily flight to Orlando. Awesome.

And the $25 million sports park for Salina sounds good too.

Weiterleitungshinweis

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The announcement of the aquarium included a brief mention about a major expansion of Hancock Airport. Pretty exciting stuff. Like the idea of international flights to and from Syracuse.

Also, did not know Southwest is already adding a daily flight to Orlando. Awesome.

And the $25 million sports park for Salina sounds good too.

Weiterleitungshinweis

Southwest is coming in November, and the airport garage heeds an upgrade anyways.

Southwest is coming to SYR

syracusefan.com

 

[sutomcat]

Anyone remember this? Letter to the editor about the proposal to change Hopkins Park, naturally he is against it

"As one of the founders in 1973, and former vice president, of the Meadows Homeowners Association (MHA) in the Hopkins Road area during the period 1973-1975, I believe McMahon’s proposal, if approved by the county Legislature, may soon experience the same kind of homeowner opposition witnessed in the mid-1970s, when Syracuse University announced its plans to construct the Carrier Dome on the Hopkins Road softball fields."

Onondaga County never consulted neighbors about Hopkins Road soccer complex (Your Letters)

County Executive Ryan McMahon underestimates project's impact on residents and their ability to organize opposition.

www.syracuse.com

At one point, Hopkins Road was the choice.

At another point, Van Buren was the choice.

I don't think the obvious choice, the existing site, was discussed seriously until the very end, when all the NIMBY opposition kind of forced SU to build in the footprint of Archbold.

I don't even think the prospect of building a dome was looked at seriously until late.

In retrospect, it was the best result possible.

Deja vu: Four decades ago, Syracuse community fought over plans to build an SU stadium

A Syracuse University proposal to build a new sports arena in Syracuse has sparked heated public debate - just like plans to build the Carrier Dome did.

www.syracuse.com

 

[KellySyracuse]

At one point, Hopkins Road was the choice.

At another point, Van Buren was the choice.

I don't think the obvious choice, the existing site, was discussed seriously until the very end, when all the NIMBY opposition kind of forced SU to build in the footprint of Archbold.

I don't even think the prospect of building a dome was looked at seriously until late.

In retrospect, it was the best result possible.

Deja vu: Four decades ago, Syracuse community fought over plans to build an SU stadium

A Syracuse University proposal to build a new sports arena in Syracuse has sparked heated public debate - just like plans to build the Carrier Dome did.

www.syracuse.com

If it had been built at Hopkins I can't imagine what this area would look like now. I live over here off of Bailey Rd., it would have been great to tailgate at home and walk to a game but definitely not the experience of being on campus.

Regarding the soccer fields proposed for the site, this is where the county shot themselves in the foot. They could have put the soccer fields over at Onondaga Lake Park where Griffin Field was and kept all of that beautiful stone work. I don't see where this gets put at Hopkins, there are too many homes surrounding the park today.

 

[shandeezy7]

Not development-related, but a look back at an incredible historic event held in Syracuse 157 years ago:

1864: Influential African American Leaders Gather At Syracuse Convention

In 1864, Syracuse played host to some of the most influential African American leaders from across the United States. In October of that year, the National Convention of Colored Men…

www.localsyr.com

 

[sutomcat]

Southwest is coming in November, and the airport garage heeds an upgrade anyways.

Southwest is coming to SYR

syracusefan.com

The original announcement was for BWI only. Think was (I think) new news. Agree the garage needs expanding. And hopefully the extended runways will lead to a lot more flights getting added.

 

[xc84]

At one point, Hopkins Road was the choice.

At another point, Van Buren was the choice.

I don't think the obvious choice, the existing site, was discussed seriously until the very end, when all the NIMBY opposition kind of forced SU to build in the footprint of Archbold.

I don't even think the prospect of building a dome was looked at seriously until late.

In retrospect, it was the best result possible.

Deja vu: Four decades ago, Syracuse community fought over plans to build an SU stadium

A Syracuse University proposal to build a new sports arena in Syracuse has sparked heated public debate - just like plans to build the Carrier Dome did.

www.syracuse.com

A site off Bridge St. in East Syracuse was also considered...where Walmart is now. Fairgrounds too.

Agree that where it is now is best

 

[xc84]

Where is the annual operational money coming from? Taxpayers? 1000 people a day @ $20 a head would cover it, but I don't think they will come close to that.

"He said it is possible the aquarium will require a modest operating subsidy from the county. However, that would be more than offset by sales tax revenues generated by the economic activity the facility would create, he said. McMahon said 52% of the county’s revenues come from sales taxes."

 

[maxxyz]

"He said it is possible the aquarium will require a modest operating subsidy from the county. However, that would be more than offset by sales tax revenues generated by the economic activity the facility would create, he said. McMahon said 52% of the county’s revenues come from sales taxes."

Unfortunately I’m skeptical that the economic activity will be able to add 100 million dollars in sales to the coffers to generate 6 million in extra sales tax. If it’s locals going to the aquarium then the aquarium is just cannibalizing patrons from other attractions. What are the estimates of patrons from other counties visiting? Will it be a destination?

I’m sure Destiny will be excited to have the aquarium nearby, but currently there is not much in the Inner Harbor to encourage people to spend money before or after they visit. What is the vision for the area so a new aquarium doesn’t end up being a lonely white elephant like the baseball stadium? What is the master plan?

I love the Rosemond Gifford Zoo, but that is the closest comp to the proposed aquarium. I don’t think that anybody is calling it an economic engine, and the county is not doing much if anything to help energize the burnet park area to make it a destination.

One more thing; if the plan for the aquarium doesn’t include at least 200 parking spots, then they’re just wasting our money.

I really want to be excited about this, but I’m tired of Joanie Mahoney types trying to push thru a 300 million dollars new arena (or whatever) without discussion, and without a plan that examines the actual cost and effects on the area.



Wow. That was a borderline Randy Quaid rant. I apologize

 

[KellySyracuse]

Unfortunately I’m skeptical that the economic activity will be able to add 100 million dollars in sales to the coffers to generate 6 million in extra sales tax. If it’s locals going to the aquarium then the aquarium is just cannibalizing patrons from other attractions. What are the estimates of patrons from other counties visiting? Will it be a destination?

I’m sure Destiny will be excited to have the aquarium nearby, but currently there is not much in the Inner Harbor to encourage people to spend money before or after they visit. What is the vision for the area so a new aquarium doesn’t end up being a lonely white elephant like the baseball stadium? What is the master plan?

I love the Rosemond Gifford Zoo, but that is the closest comp to the proposed aquarium. I don’t think that anybody is calling it an economic engine, and the county is not doing much if anything to help energize the burnet park area to make it a destination.

One more thing; if the plan for the aquarium doesn’t include at least 200 parking spots, then they’re just wasting our money.

I really want to be excited about this, but I’m tired of Joanie Mahoney types trying to push thru a 300 million dollars new arena (or whatever) without discussion, and without a plan that examines the actual cost and effects on the area.



Wow. That was a borderline Randy Quaid rant. I apologize

McMahon elaborates about it on syracuse.com today with a rendering of what it might look like

Why build an $85 million aquarium in a pandemic? Ryan McMahon makes his case

McMahon says the time is right for a 'transformational project' that generates future revenue

www.syracuse.com

 

[tptcuse]

McMahon elaborates about it on syracuse.com today with a rendering of what it might look like

Why build an $85 million aquarium in a pandemic? Ryan McMahon makes his case

McMahon says the time is right for a 'transformational project' that generates future revenue

www.syracuse.com

As a now out of towner, I think it is a great idea. All the talk is that with global warming (if you believe in that hoax), places like Syracuse are set to keep growing as a place for families to settle down. That area near the water has SO much potential.

 

[two3zone]

"He said it is possible the aquarium will require a modest operating subsidy from the county. However, that would be more than offset by sales tax revenues generated by the economic activity the facility would create, he said. McMahon said 52% of the county’s revenues come from sales taxes."

And when the fall of Destiny happens within 10 years it’ll be even less. Not going to be much sales tax coming in.

How do they not foresee this stuff?

 

[xc84]

And when the fall of Destiny happens within 10 years it’ll be even less. Not going to be much sales tax coming in.

How do they not foresee this stuff?

Maybe. But that is why they need to invest in things that bring in other sales tax. Like this aquarium that will generate hotel, restaurant business and related sales tax. Can't look at things in isolation. Offsetting Destiny will require multiple investments. I know some may scoff at the idea that e.g. the sports fields idea will generate money... but as someone who spends about $15K per year on things related to sports travel, I can say they do.

I will likely get slammed for this but I like the idea of the aquarium as part of a portfolio of things that will bring people into Syracuse to spend money.

I am sure there were many who are still mad a the state for pitching in for the Carrier Dome. Of course, that relatively small investment paid off many times over for the Syracuse area.

We also know there are other things in the works e.g. wooing a chip plant and the new Amazon center.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think aquariums are boring.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think aquariums are boring.

They are unless they have a spot where you can catch and cook your own food.

ETA: I'd support an aquarium more if part of it was a fish hatchery to restore and promote native ecosystems.

 

[KellySyracuse]

If I were to venture a guess I think McMahon is trying to throw a bone at Destiny and the Liverpool hotel owners to get them to stop bitching about the community grid

"McMahon said an aquarium at the Inner Harbor would fit in with the new amphitheater, the creek walk, the baseball stadium, Onondaga Lake Park and Destiny USA. It would also fit in with the proposal, also in this budget, to spend $25 million on a sports complex.

“It complements our ability to have unique programming, to tell our story about the (Onondaga Lake) cleanup, to tell our story about our history around the lake and also about the environment as well,” he said. “It gives our kids an ability to see an aquarium, where quite honestly, probably 10% of the kids in school right now ever will.”

 

[Fly Rodder]

As a now out of towner, I think it is a great idea. All the talk is that with global warming (if you believe in that hoax), places like Syracuse are set to keep growing as a place for families to settle down. That area near the water has SO much potential.

NY needs to fix their tax/budgets to decouple the burden of medicare from property taxes. Probably as part of a 5 or 10-year phased approach to avoid a market distorting windfall to property owners.

 

[two3zone]

Maybe. But that is why they need to invest in things that bring in other sales tax. Like this aquarium that will generate hotel, restaurant business and related sales tax. Can't look at things in isolation. Offsetting Destiny will require multiple investments. I know some may scoff at the idea that e.g. the sports fields idea will generate money... but as someone who spends about $15K per year on things related to sports travel, I can say they do.

I will likely get slammed for this but I like the idea of the aquarium as part of a portfolio of things that will bring people into Syracuse to spend money.

I am sure there were many who are still mad a the state for pitching in for the Carrier Dome. Of course, that relatively small investment paid off many times over for the Syracuse area.

We also know there are other things in the works e.g. wooing a chip plant and the new Amazon center.

Why come to Syracuse for an aquarium? There are some better ones in cities I’d actually want to visit.