Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[TexanMark]

Take your woke ideas to the off-topic forum!

Being a Geography major I'm a sucker for Freeways, Railroads and Airports.

 

[NJCuse97]

I think someone said the cost of converting the department store space to housing would be too impractical and that It would be simper to raze and start over.

There are requirements with housing for stuff like access to operable windows and fresh air/light. Combined with the tall space, you would want to add floors and remove large chunks of existing floor in order to get the light and air but be dense enough to be financially efficient. The money spent making that happen makes it fiscally irresponsible. Nobody would invest to spend 3x what you would on a clear site. In NYC we hear people and politicians crying out for office to resi conversion in the face of a housing crisis, but they are not allowing themselves to realize that even with better floor heights, there is still the light/air problem and no landlord or investor can afford to spend money to give up square footage, especially now.

 

[HtownOrange]

There are requirements with housing for stuff like access to operable windows and fresh air/light. Combined with the tall space, you would want to add floors and remove large chunks of existing floor in order to get the light and air but be dense enough to be financially efficient. The money spent making that happen makes it fiscally irresponsible. Nobody would invest to spend 3x what you would on a clear site. In NYC we hear people and politicians crying out for office to resi conversion in the face of a housing crisis, but they are not allowing themselves to realize that even with better floor heights, there is still the light/air problem and no landlord or investor can afford to spend money to give up square footage, especially now.

PLeaSE stOp UsiNG FacTs tO wIn aN ArGUMenT! It IS aN UnFair AdvaNTagE aS wELl as diSMissIvE oF EmotIOnaL PeSPEctiVeS.

 

[OttoMets]

I think this article refers to one of them. It appears to be a full service restaurant. I am referring specifically to the Tempo by Hilton proposal, not the Fairfield Inn. It is not a done deal yet but it sounds very close to being confirmed.

The Onondaga Hotel recently announced that will be built on Warren and Fayetteville is another. The Marriott downtown is also surely considered a full service hotel.

That would get us to 4 full service hotels within city limits. I believe other hotel proposals are being discussed north of the city, some of which should be full service.

Good to see substantive progress being made on this front.

…
He also unveiled plans for two new hotels, a major lakeside apartment development in Liverpool, improvements to the CNY Regional Market, and hundreds of new housing units.

Cor Development Co., the company that controls much of the waterfront acreage in the Syracuse Inner Harbor, has struck a deal to build a high-end Tempo by Hilton hotel near the existing Aloft Hotel the company built nearly a decade ago, McMahon said.

The $83 million Tempo hotel would have 227 rooms, a restaurant and a patio bar overlooking the harbor.
McMahon said he meets frequently with Cor officials on development in the Inner Harbor, where the county is building a $100 million aquarium. Hilton officials have said the aquarium was a factor in putting their flag on the proposed hotel, McMahon said.

Cor plans to apply for site approval for the hotel later this year and will likely begin construction in the spring of 2026, he said.

In the town of Clay, another developer is planning to build a new 160-room hotel, McMahon said. The Residence Inn and Fairfield Inn & Suites will be a $24 million development, he said.

McMahon’s agenda: new hotels, lakeside apartments and another Micron-fueled land-buying spree

The Onondaga County executive unveiled his plans in the 2025 State of the County address.

www.syracuse.com

Good catch, Tom. I actually wasn't thinking of the Tempo, which is real but probably a little further out than the CE let on.

1. Hilton Curio Collection on South Warren (Onondaga Hotel);
2. Graduate by Hilton on University;
3. Downtown, new-build, TBD;
4. Downtown, conversion of existing use, TBD.

I don't think we'll hear about #s 3 and 4 in the next month, but perhaps by the end of the year. All told I think there'll be 900 rooms among the four of them.

There's also the County's hotel RFP for the Everson lot, should that ever get momentum.

 

[OttoMets]

Clark's were awesome late night sammiches...when drinking beer.

That is how I would judge them

I had only two Genny Lights prior to...probably should've gotten more runway there.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

You know of two more full service hotels in the works?

I heard Marriottwas putting 2-3 on Morgan Road behind the mall. That was at least 6 months ago, so who knows.

 

[sutomcat]

Good catch, Tom. I actually wasn't thinking of the Tempo, which is real but probably a little further out than the CE let on.

1. Hilton Curio Collection on South Warren (Onondaga Hotel);
2. Graduate by Hilton on University;
3. Downtown, new-build, TBD;
4. Downtown, conversion of existing use, TBD.

I don't think we'll hear about #s 3 and 4 in the next month, but perhaps by the end of the year. All told I think there'll be 900 rooms among the four of them.

There's also the County's hotel RFP for the Everson lot, should that ever get momentum.

Thanks for the insights OttoMets.

It would be awesome if these happen. I would hope this kind of progress, coupled with a number of other hotels planned for the northern side of the city, will position us well to at least host some Eastern Regionals for basketball.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I want a 27-story hotel. Or a condo high rise. Or it can just be an empty building to save on the construction costs. I just want something to overtake the State Tower Building as the tallest in the city. It’s had that title since 1922! Enough already.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Thanks for the insights OttoMets.

It would be awesome if these happen. I would hope this kind of progress, coupled with a number of other hotels planned for the northern side of the city, will position us well to at least host some Eastern Regionals for basketball.

Didn’t the NCAA recently up the required capacity for regionals to where the dome was not big enough?

 

[sutomcat]

Didn’t the NCAA recently up the required capacity for regionals to where the dome was not big enough?

All I can find regarding capacity requirements is you need at least 10k seats to host the first weekend of the men’s tournament, you need at least 16k to host a regional and now at least 70k to host a Fiball Four.

There are only 11 sites in the country that meet all the NCAA criteria for hosting a Fonal Four. The bump to a minimum 70k seating capacity eliminated San Antonio, which has them in a tizzy.

I know of no rule that says 33k is not sufficient to host a regional. This past tournament, the four regionals were held in Newark, NJ, Atlanta, GA, Indianapolis, IN, and San Francisco, CA. So two of the four were in traditional ‘small’ arenas much smaller then the JMA Dome capacity.

So 2 of the 4 would not qualify.

In 2026, the regional sites for the NCAA men's basketball tournament will be: South Regional: Houston, TX (Toyota Center); West Regional: San Jose, CA (SAP Center); Midwest Regional: Chicago, IL (United Center); and East Regional: Washington, D.C. (Capital One Arena).

So none of the four would qualify if the minimum capacity was greater than the 33k or so the reconfigured dome now can handle for hoops.

In 2028, the regionals will be hosted in NYC, LA, Kansas City and San Antonio. So only one would have a capacity greater than JMA.

I just don’t think there are enough giant arenas/locations out there to make setting the minimum requirement for hosting a regional to be over 33k.

 

[FrancoPizza]

All I can find regarding capacity requirements is you need at least 10k seats to host the first weekend of the men’s tournament, you need at least 16k to host a regional and now at least 70k to host a Fiball Four.

There are only 11 sites in the country that meet all the NCAA criteria for hosting a Fonal Four. The bump to a minimum 70k seating capacity eliminated San Antonio, which has them in a tizzy.

I know of no rule that says 33k is not sufficient to host a regional. This past tournament, the four regionals were held in Newark, NJ, Atlanta, GA, Indianapolis, IN, and San Francisco, CA. So two of the four were in traditional ‘small’ arenas much smaller then the JMA Dome capacity.

So 2 of the 4 would not qualify.

In 2026, the regional sites for the NCAA men's basketball tournament will be: South Regional: Houston, TX (Toyota Center); West Regional: San Jose, CA (SAP Center); Midwest Regional: Chicago, IL (United Center); and East Regional: Washington, D.C. (Capital One Arena).

So none of the four would qualify if the minimum capacity was greater than the 33k or so the reconfigured dome now can handle for hoops.

In 2028, the regionals will be hosted in NYC, LA, Kansas City and San Antonio. So only one would have a capacity greater than JMA.

I just don’t think there are enough giant arenas/locations out there to make setting the minimum requirement for hosting a regional to be over 33k.

Thank goodness. I had it mixed up. So it was only the final 4 that we were no longer eligible. That was always a loooooong shot anyway even if this area made a huge economic leap in the next decade.

 

[TexanMark]

Ridiculous you need 70K. San Antonio is one of the top 3 host locations.

 

[CU44SE]

The NCAA came out a couple years ago and said they were don’t hosting regionals at football stadiums. Then as Tom just layed out. Their was regional site this year and in 2 years at football stadiums. They make rules and then break them.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The NCAA came out a couple years ago and said they were don’t hosting regionals at football stadiums. Then as Tom just layed out. Their was regional site this year and in 2 years at football stadiums. They make rules and then break them.

The next 3 years, all the regional sites are at NBA/NHL Arenas. No football stadiums.

2026:

South Regional	March 26 & 28	Houston, TX	Toyota Center	NBA Arena
West Regional	March 26 & 28	San Jose, CA	SAP Center	NHL Arena
Midwest Regional	March 27 & 29	Chicago, IL	United Center	NBA Arena
East Regional	March 27 & 29	Washington, D.C.	Capital One Arena	NBA Arena

2027:

South Regional	March 25 & 27	San Antonio, TX	Frost Bank Center	NBA Arena
West Regional	March 25 & 27	Los Angeles, CA	Crypto.com Arena	NBA Arena
Midwest Regional	March 26 & 28	Kansas City, MO	T-Mobile Center	NCAA Arena
East Regional	March 26 & 28	New York, NY	Madison Square Garden	NBA Arena

2028:

East Regional	March 23 & 25	Raleigh, NC	Lenovo Center	NCAA/NHL Arena
West Regional	March 23 & 25	San Francisco, CA	Chase Center	NBA Arena
Midwest Regional	March 24 & 26	Detroit, MI	Little Caesars Arena	NBA Arena
South Regional	March 24 & 26	Dallas, TX	American Airlines Center	NBA Arena

 

[sutomcat]

The NCAA came out a couple years ago and said they were don’t hosting regionals at football stadiums. Then as Tom just layed out. Their was regional site this year and in 2 years at football stadiums. They make rules and then break them.

Yup. I know when we hosted in the past, they were not happy with the quality of some of the hotels in CNY that were used. They also were not happy we had benches instead of individual seats. Some fans complained.`

And if you take the time to read their requirements (I have), they have a relatively new provision that the venue needs to be ADA compliant.

Assuming the hotels get built, all things have now been addressed. And I believe the NCAA has said a number of times they prefer to have their events at college venues located on college campuses.

Anyway, I think if we get these hotels built, we have a great chance to be a regular host of the Eastern Regionals. For men and women. Would not be surprised if we start by hosting a women’s regional.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

All I can find regarding capacity requirements is you need at least 10k seats to host the first weekend of the men’s tournament, you need at least 16k to host a regional and now at least 70k to host a Fiball Four.

There are only 11 sites in the country that meet all the NCAA criteria for hosting a Fonal Four. The bump to a minimum 70k seating capacity eliminated San Antonio, which has them in a tizzy.

I know of no rule that says 33k is not sufficient to host a regional. This past tournament, the four regionals were held in Newark, NJ, Atlanta, GA, Indianapolis, IN, and San Francisco, CA. So two of the four were in traditional ‘small’ arenas much smaller then the JMA Dome capacity.

So 2 of the 4 would not qualify.

In 2026, the regional sites for the NCAA men's basketball tournament will be: South Regional: Houston, TX (Toyota Center); West Regional: San Jose, CA (SAP Center); Midwest Regional: Chicago, IL (United Center); and East Regional: Washington, D.C. (Capital One Arena).

So none of the four would qualify if the minimum capacity was greater than the 33k or so the reconfigured dome now can handle for hoops.

In 2028, the regionals will be hosted in NYC, LA, Kansas City and San Antonio. So only one would have a capacity greater than JMA.

I just don’t think there are enough giant arenas/locations out there to make setting the minimum requirement for hosting a regional to be over 33k.

I wonder if they could configure floor seating to meet the capacity. Of course, getting people to come to Syracuse in April…

 

[CU44SE]

The next 3 years, all the regional sites are at NBA/NHL Arenas. No football stadiums.

2026:

South Regional	March 26 & 28	Houston, TX	Toyota Center	NBA Arena
West Regional	March 26 & 28	San Jose, CA	SAP Center	NHL Arena
Midwest Regional	March 27 & 29	Chicago, IL	United Center	NBA Arena
East Regional	March 27 & 29	Washington, D.C.	Capital One Arena	NBA Arena

2027:

South Regional	March 25 & 27	San Antonio, TX	Frost Bank Center	NBA Arena
West Regional	March 25 & 27	Los Angeles, CA	Crypto.com Arena	NBA Arena
Midwest Regional	March 26 & 28	Kansas City, MO	T-Mobile Center	NCAA Arena
East Regional	March 26 & 28	New York, NY	Madison Square Garden	NBA Arena

2028:

East Regional	March 23 & 25	Raleigh, NC	Lenovo Center	NCAA/NHL Arena
West Regional	March 23 & 25	San Francisco, CA	Chase Center	NBA Arena
Midwest Regional	March 24 & 26	Detroit, MI	Little Caesars Arena	NBA Arena
South Regional	March 24 & 26	Dallas, TX	American Airlines Center	NBA Arena

My bad I mistakenly assumed San Antonio was the final four location. Makes sense they are using the NBA arena.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I wonder if they could configure floor seating to meet the capacity. Of course, getting people to come to Syracuse in April…

I think it would be very difficult if not impossible to fit 70.

 

[Newhouser]

The last time SU bid they were told they weren't being considered for the Regional Finals - opening round only. 10 full service hotels needed, and that would mean they all buy in, which isn't a given as this business isn't the economic boon for hotels that everyone thinks.
Attendee data skews very heavy to day trippers.
At least according to people I know in that industry.

 

[sutomcat]

I wonder if they could configure floor seating to meet the capacity. Of course, getting people to come to Syracuse in April…

For a Final Four they would build a custom low slope stands from courtside all the way to the East side 300 level. It would include private boxes. My guess is that it would bump capacity to 50-55k. It would be the better setup for watching basketball than any site they are using today. But if they are really set on 70k, no way it is going to happen.

Not sure the Northeast will ever host another Final Four.

Stinks for the region where it all started and where population density is highest……

 

[OrangeXtreme]

For a Final Four they would build a custom low slope stands from courtside all the way to the East side 300 level. It would include private boxes. My guess is that it would bump capacity to 50-55k. It would be the better setup for watching basketball than any site they are using today. But if they are really set on 70k, no way it is going to happen.

Not sure the Northeast will ever host another Final Four.

Stinks for the region where it all started and where population density is highest……

Remember that the Dome doesn't have enough press facilities.

Everytime we've hosted a regional, the entire backcourt area is used as press workshops. If you want to build temporary seating there, you still have to find a place for the media.

 

[sutomcat]

Remember that the Dome doesn't have enough press facilities.

Everytime we've hosted a regional, the entire backcourt area is used as press workshops. If you want to build temporary seating there, you still have to find a place for the media.

We have the MVC now. Maybe that area for the VIPs (Hidden Level?) could also be used.

There are more options now than back in the old days.

 

[shandeezy7]

For a Final Four they would build a custom low slope stands from courtside all the way to the East side 300 level. It would include private boxes. My guess is that it would bump capacity to 50-55k. It would be the better setup for watching basketball than any site they are using today. But if they are really set on 70k, no way it is going to happen.

Not sure the Northeast will ever host another Final Four.

Stinks for the region where it all started and where population density is highest……

Cleveland isn't "northeast" I suppose, but it's the closest that we'll get, it would appear, if they actually build that proposed indoor stadium for the Browns.

 

[Bayside44]

Cleveland isn't "northeast" I suppose, but it's the closest that we'll get, it would appear, if they actually build that proposed indoor stadium for the Browns.

The Washington football team might likely get a stadium with a lid.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We have the MVC now. Maybe that area for the VIPs (Hidden Level?) could also be used.

There are more options now than back in the old days.

Might as well let the press use MVC.

They can't sell any alcohol.