Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion | Page 91 | Syracusefan.com

Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

shandeezy7 said:
I posted this in the Coronavirus Updates thread but it's likely lost in the shuffle there. The comment from Eric Ennis, who is the Director of Business Development for the City of Syracuse, is interesting. I believe discussions surrounding closing down Walton Street to traffic were happening even before the COVID-19 crisis. Does anyone have any further insight into this? My guess is this project wouldn't happen without state/federal money and I have to believe the purse strings will be tightened greatly for the foreseeable future.

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I drive drove this in the morning on my commute, it is used heavily by delivery trucks during the day more than anything else.
 
shandeezy7 said:
I posted this in the Coronavirus Updates thread but it's likely lost in the shuffle there. The comment from Eric Ennis, who is the Director of Business Development for the City of Syracuse, is interesting. I believe discussions surrounding closing down Walton Street to traffic were happening even before the COVID-19 crisis. Does anyone have any further insight into this? My guess is this project wouldn't happen without state/federal money and I have to believe the purse strings will be tightened greatly for the foreseeable future.

View attachment 181271
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SMTC released a study about this last year. It's probably still on their website. When's Eric's comment from, recently?

I don't see it happening. Syracuse doesn't have the density to support carless streets. If anything I see the 200 block of East Genesee Street reverting to limited vehicular traffic before this kind of thing happening.

I believe Buffalo recently took one of its major streets back for limited motorized traffic after a failed pedestrian experiment?
 
Fly Rodder said:
I drive drove this in the morning on my commute, it is used heavily by delivery trucks during the day more than anything else.
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Delivery trucks would be the main issue, I think. Other cities make it work though, so I don't really get how Syracuse would be different in that regard.
 
OttoMets said:
SMTC released a study about this last year. It's probably still on their website. When's Eric's comment from, recently?

I don't see it happening. Syracuse doesn't have the density to support carless streets. If anything I see the 200 block of East Genesee Street reverting to limited vehicular traffic before this kind of thing happening.

I believe Buffalo recently took one of its major streets back for limited motorized traffic after a failed pedestrian experiment?
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Yes, that comment is from last week, and if there was anywhere in the city with the density to support it, it would be Armory Square. I mean, we are talking about one block on a street that is not a through street. It's supposed to be the centerpiece nightlife district in the city, and frankly it looks like crap. If the tiny city of Burlington can make Church Street pedestrian only for multiple blocks, then I think Syracuse could easily do the same with one block.

Main Street in Buffalo is in the process of reopening a number of blocks to vehicle traffic (it's about half-way done), although it wasn't the result of a failed pedestrian experiment. Main Street was closed to traffic when the Metro Rail line was built there. I wouldn't say the rail line made the street really all that more pedestrian-friendly, as I don't think that was part of the initial rail project goals.
 
shandeezy7 said:
Yes, that comment is from last week, and if there was anywhere in the city with the density to support it, it would be Armory Square. I mean, we are talking about one block on a street that is not a through street. It's supposed to be the centerpiece nightlife district in the city, and frankly it looks like crap. If the tiny city of Burlington can make Church Street pedestrian only for multiple blocks, then I think Syracuse could easily do the same with one block.

Main Street in Buffalo is in the process of reopening a number of blocks to vehicle traffic (it's about half-way done), although it wasn't the result of a failed pedestrian experiment. Main Street was closed to traffic when the Metro Rail line was built there. I wouldn't say the rail line made the street really all that more pedestrian-friendly, as I don't think that was part of the initial rail project goals.
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Agree that Walton's pretty grubby, but I think that'd hurt. One place I could see it working is Marshall Street, it's really the only place in the region with that density and drawing power.
 
OttoMets said:
Agree that Walton's pretty grubby, but I think that'd hurt. One place I could see it working is Marshall Street, it's really the only place in the region with that density and drawing power.
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I guess I don't see how it could hurt it. The street is already essentially closed to traffic on weekend nights. There are maybe 15-20 legal parking spots on that block, if that, and most of those spaces are occupied either by employees of the bars/restaurants or residents of the apartments.
 
shandeezy7 said:
I guess I don't see how it could hurt it. The street is already essentially closed to traffic on weekend nights. There are maybe 15-20 legal parking spots on that block, if that, and most of those spaces are occupied either by employees of the bars/restaurants or residents of the apartments.
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Never underestimate people's dislike for walking to a storefront they can't see from their parking space. I hear that complaint a lot.

Funny aside about the weekend night closures. It's a gang task force trick. They've been doing it on Marshall for a year or two as well. It's intended to reduce the number of places where someone can stash a gun and use it quickly.
 
OttoMets said:
Never underestimate people's dislike for walking to a storefront they can't see from their parking space. I hear that complaint a lot.

Funny aside about the weekend night closures. It's a gang task force trick. They've been doing it on Marshall for a year or two as well. It's intended to reduce the number of places where someone can stash a gun and use it quickly.
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The person that doesn't want to park anywhere but directly in front of the establishment they are going to is probably not shopping/eating downtown anyway. Creating a vibrant space for pedestrians can have way more benefit for the businesses on that street than preserving 15 parking spaces. It's been done elsewhere, on far more high-traffic streets than that one block of Walton. Heck, it's even been done in Syracuse with Clinton Square, and that was a much more highly-trafficked through street.

Interesting note on the street closure. Hadn't heard that before.
 
shandeezy7 said:
The person that doesn't want to park anywhere but directly in front of the establishment they are going to is probably not shopping/eating downtown anyway. Creating a vibrant space for pedestrians can have way more benefit for the businesses on that street than preserving 15 parking spaces. It's been done elsewhere, on far more high-traffic streets than that one block of Walton. Heck, it's even been done in Syracuse with Clinton Square, and that was a much more highly-trafficked through street.

Interesting note on the street closure. Hadn't heard that before.
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Hanover square as well.
 
Noexcuse said:
Hanover square as well.
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Hanover Square is definitely underutilized, in my opinion. I remember one summer they had a block party series where they shut the square down, allowed alcohol to be consumed outside in the square and had a stage with a live band. It was well-attended and a really good time, but then it ended just as quickly as it began. I'm assuming there wasn't money to continue it. Not sure where those funds came from, but I think the stage was one of the City of Syracuse stages, so perhaps they provided the funding.
 
shandeezy7 said:
Hanover Square is definitely underutilized, in my opinion. I remember one summer they had a block party series where they shut the square down, allowed alcohol to be consumed outside in the square and had a stage with a live band. It was well-attended and a really good time, but then it ended just as quickly as it began. I'm assuming there wasn't money to continue it. Not sure where those funds came from, but I think the stage was one of the City of Syracuse stages, so perhaps they provided the funding.
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I had some good times at those events, it had to be 7 or 8 years ago if I recall. I agree about Hanover being under utilized. Of all the places downtown to go have drinks it's probably my favorite.
 
KellySyracuse said:
I had some good times at those events, it had to be 7 or 8 years ago if I recall. I agree about Hanover being under utilized. Of all the places downtown to go have drinks it's probably my favorite.
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Yeah I think it was at least that long ago, if not longer. Evergreen is my favorite bar in Cuse. I love sitting on the sidewalk patio on a warm summer night.
 
Hanover Square is a good example of what to do and what not to do. The 200 block of East Genesee is a pedestrian street and has only vacant storefronts. The 100 block is where the action is, but it has low-speed one-way traffic and a parking lane. It's a curb-less street with bollards, basically an American version of a woonerf. It works pretty well for all users. I could see Walton being reconstructed like this. (I'd also like to see this for the 200 block of East Genesee someday, preferably with westbound one-way traffic.)
 
OttoMets said:
Hanover Square is a good example of what to do and what not to do. The 200 block of East Genesee is a pedestrian street and has only vacant storefronts. The 100 block is where the action is, but it has low-speed one-way traffic and a parking lane. It's a curb-less street with bollards, basically an American version of a woonerf. It works pretty well for all users. I could see Walton being reconstructed like this. (I'd also like to see this for the 200 block of East Genesee someday, preferably with westbound one-way traffic.)
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I don't know if that's totally an apples to oranges comparison though. The 100 block is mostly bars/restaurant, while the 200 block was always retail, as far as I know. Downtown retail in Syracuse, like most other mid-sized American cities, was decimated in the second half of the 20th century. I don't think that block being pedestrian only has had anything to do with the vacancy rates in the State Tower building, which needed a re-imagining for a long time.
 
shandeezy7 said:
I don't know if that's totally an apples to oranges comparison though. The 100 block is mostly bars/restaurant, while the 200 block was always retail, as far as I know. Downtown retail in Syracuse, like most other mid-sized American cities, was decimated in the second half of the 20th century. I don't think that block being pedestrian only has had anything to do with the vacancy rates in the State Tower building, which needed a re-imagining for a long time.
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My understanding about that vacancy (remember, even the chronically mismanaged State Tower had 100% occupancy on the South Warren and East Water frontages) is related to two factors that both inhibited vibrancy: 1) the pedestrian block, and 2) the City property ("the Arby's addition" as some call it) facing it on the south side of the street. With Today's Special and Scottrade and the bank, I believe the previous owner was getting more or less market rent in the other storefronts, but he couldn't give the Genesee spaces away. The local AIA chapter took one of them for a few years at a big discount, but I don't remember any other tenants.

Pioneer is a much better steward of the property, we'll see if they have more success drawing tenants to the storefronts on the south side of the building.
 
OttoMets said:
My understanding about that vacancy (remember, even the chronically mismanaged State Tower had 100% occupancy on the South Warren and East Water frontages) is related to two factors that both inhibited vibrancy: 1) the pedestrian block, and 2) the City property ("the Arby's addition" as some call it) facing it on the south side of the street. With Today's Special and Scottrade and the bank, I believe the previous owner was getting more or less market rent in the other storefronts, but he couldn't give the Genesee spaces away. The local AIA chapter took one of them for a few years at a big discount, but I don't remember any other tenants.

Pioneer is a much better steward of the property, we'll see if they have more success drawing tenants to the storefronts on the south side of the building.
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The last time I walked by there, it did look like work was being done in one or two of the storefronts. I have fond memories of that area, because my grandmother used to take me to get shoes for school there every summer. The weird greenhouse addition off of the Granger building never made sense to be. One of the most unique buildings in Syracuse and you put that on there?
 
shandeezy7 said:
The last time I walked by there, it did look like work was being done in one or two of the storefronts. I have fond memories of that area, because my grandmother used to take me to get shoes for school there every summer. The weird greenhouse addition off of the Granger building never made sense to be. One of the most unique buildings in Syracuse and you put that on there?
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There are permits in the window of the two State Tower storefronts closest to the Key Bank drive-through, and there's some sheetrock going up. I don't believe there are tenants in place, but they'll at least be ready to lease.

I don't think the Arby's addition is long for this world, but it had a good run!
 
TexanMark said:
Otto mentioned woonerf...I think that would be fabulous down in Armory Square.

It might just work for E. Genesee too.

www.bisnow.com

What's A Woonerf? The Streetscape Design That's Sweeping DC

European street designs called woonerfs are being implemented in JBG's Eckington Yards and Hoffman Madison's The Wharf
www.bisnow.com www.bisnow.com
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Plus it's fun to say (assuming I'm pronouncing it correctly)! D.C.'s done a good job integrating it in the projects in that link. Sometimes New York (outside of NYC) is more conservative than other places in introducing new transportation design features like this, but since a woonerf already exists in Hanover Square and actually works pretty well, even in snow and even for delivery drivers, I think we'll be able to do it again.

If property owners on Walton Street are cool with it, I think it could be great for all users.
 
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OttoMets said:
Plus it's fun to say (assuming I'm pronouncing it correctly)! D.C.'s done a good job integrating it in the projects in that link. Sometimes New York (outside of NYC) is more conservative than other places in introducing new transportation design features like this, but since a woonerf already exists in Hanover Square and actually works pretty well, even in snow and even for delivery drivers, I think we'll be able to do it again.

If property owners on Walton Street are cool with it, I think it could be great for all users.
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It’s Dutch... “woahn-airf” is probably as close as you’ll get.*

* - native Dutchie here... ;)
 
shandeezy7 said:
No surprise here, but it's now official:

www.syracuse.com

It’s official: Amazon will move into enormous warehouse being built in Clay

The distribution center is expected to create 1,000 jobs
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com
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I definitely think this is a good project for the area, especially since that corridor already has a number of distribution facilities in the immediate vicinity. I am curious- is there a track record of Amazon facilities triggering the type of ancillary growth that our local pols are claiming?

Hopefully Amazon worker conditions/pay continue to improve prior to this facility opening...
 

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