Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[blizz]

Well, he was a real pissant who was rarely ever stable.

To everyone who doesn't get this reference, it's a friendly reminder that if you find yourself pondering the meaning of life it's time to pour yourself another ale.

 

[longtimefan]

To everyone who doesn't get this reference, it's a friendly reminder that if you find yourself pondering the meaning of life it's time to pour yourself another ale.

Unless you're at a point in your life where the meaning of life is worth pondering.

 

[blizz]

Unless you're at a point in your life where the meaning of life is worth pondering.

There is, on average, between 5 to 7 minutes of brain activity after the heart stops beating.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The board has all these so-called insider connections, but nobody seems to have an "in" with the mayor and county exec. Those two entities, IMO, will determine whether we get any state support - which determines if we just get a new roof or bells and whistles.

Joanie was a drinking buddy in law school. That's all I've got.

 

[sutomcat]

Common Councilors say luxury apartment development on University Hill needs to slow down (DP; Muller)

Cranes and construction vehicles on University Hill, in the last decade, have often marked the sites of future luxury apartment complexes.

Developments with names such as Campus West, 505 on Walnut and Copper Beech Commons target the area’s student population. Per-bedroom rents can cost residents an upward of $1,500 a month, and more buildings are on the way.

But as developers continue to build apartments on the Hill, new Syracuse Common Councilors representing neighborhoods near Syracuse University say future construction of similar projects needs to slow down.

“I feel like we have enough,” said Latoya Allen, who was elected last November as Common Councilor of the 4th district to represent some of the university-area neighborhood and parts of SU. “Because right now, it seems as if we don’t even have the means to fill the ones they’re building right now.”

The Marshall, an eight-story, 287-unit luxury student housing complex near Marshall Street, is expected to open in fall 2018. And another housing project, called Theory, is being built on East Genesee Street.

Allen’s sentiment, shared by some of the city’s local leaders, marks a departure from Mayor Ben Walsh’s support for residential development projects near SU and Interstate 81.
...

 

[shandeezy7]

Common Councilors say luxury apartment development on University Hill needs to slow down (DP; Muller)

Cranes and construction vehicles on University Hill, in the last decade, have often marked the sites of future luxury apartment complexes.

Developments with names such as Campus West, 505 on Walnut and Copper Beech Commons target the area’s student population. Per-bedroom rents can cost residents an upward of $1,500 a month, and more buildings are on the way.

But as developers continue to build apartments on the Hill, new Syracuse Common Councilors representing neighborhoods near Syracuse University say future construction of similar projects needs to slow down.

“I feel like we have enough,” said Latoya Allen, who was elected last November as Common Councilor of the 4th district to represent some of the university-area neighborhood and parts of SU. “Because right now, it seems as if we don’t even have the means to fill the ones they’re building right now.”

The Marshall, an eight-story, 287-unit luxury student housing complex near Marshall Street, is expected to open in fall 2018. And another housing project, called Theory, is being built on East Genesee Street.

Allen’s sentiment, shared by some of the city’s local leaders, marks a departure from Mayor Ben Walsh’s support for residential development projects near SU and Interstate 81.
...

Can't really disagree with her. Hope city leadership - and SU leadership, for that matter - are paying attention. More apartment units are being built than students are being added to enrollment at SU. One of two things is going to happen here:

1.) These new units won't be filled with students and some projects may fail.
2.) These new projects create a vacuum from the university neighborhood, leading to abandoned properties and further deterioration of the neighborhood.

The second option should be especially concerning to SU and the city, as neither would like to see a rundown neighborhood right next door to the university (at least any more rundown than it already is thanks to shady absentee landlords who rent dumps to college kids).

If I'm the university, I'm putting pressure on the city to start rigorously enforcing property codes. I feel like for far too long, the city has looked the other way on these issues because these landlords pay their taxes, and they have let tax revenue take precedence over healthy neighborhoods. I think it's also worth exploring some sort of incentive to reconvert a lot of these two family homes back into single family homes. Perhaps offering tax breaks to new owners who will occupy these homes. Just feels like something needs to be done or this neighborhood will be lost for good.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This is like the run on banks and pharmacies from a few years back.

 

[OttoMets]

Can't really disagree with her. Hope city leadership - and SU leadership, for that matter - are paying attention. More apartment units are being built than students are being added to enrollment at SU. One of two things is going to happen here:

1.) These new units won't be filled with students and some projects may fail.
2.) These new projects create a vacuum from the university neighborhood, leading to abandoned properties and further deterioration of the neighborhood.

The second option should be especially concerning to SU and the city, as neither would like to see a rundown neighborhood right next door to the university (at least any more rundown than it already is thanks to shady absentee landlords who rent dumps to college kids).

If I'm the university, I'm putting pressure on the city to start rigorously enforcing property codes. I feel like for far too long, the city has looked the other way on these issues because these landlords pay their taxes, and they have let tax revenue take precedence over healthy neighborhoods. I think it's also worth exploring some sort of incentive to reconvert a lot of these two family homes back into single family homes. Perhaps offering tax breaks to new owners who will occupy these homes. Just feels like something needs to be done or this neighborhood will be lost for good.

I think some combination of options 1 and 2 are possibilities. But stakeholders are aware of the housing problem on the horizon and we'll see some aggressive action here. It'll be interesting to see how vacancies spike when all these projects deliver in August. Anecdotally, it's not a good time to own secondary properties (off the Livingston/Euclid/Westcott corridors) in the SEUNA area. Wonder how this will affect all the converted rental properties up in the hood northeast of campus? That's the one area where the investor rush has arguably helped the city. A ton of students (especially Asian ones) are living north of East Genesee around the former Cherry Hill projects.

One thing I know: I'd hate to hold the debt on the big Aspen development down off East Brighton (#10 on Tom's list). They're tight-lipped about occupancy, but I heard it's hovering around 50%. And they scoffed at the idea of a shuttle service to campus during the planning process, despite the fact that it's about a 40-minute walk with a pretty ugly sidewalk situation for the first four blocks. Now, after ridiculously slow leasing? They've set up a shuttle.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think some combination of options 1 and 2 are possibilities. But stakeholders are aware of the housing problem on the horizon and we'll see some aggressive action here. It'll be interesting to see how vacancies spike when all these projects deliver in August. Anecdotally, it's not a good time to own secondary properties (off the Livingston/Euclid/Westcott corridors) in the SEUNA area. Wonder how this will affect all the converted rental properties up in the hood northeast of campus? That's the one area where the investor rush has arguably helped the city. A ton of students (especially Asian ones) are living north of East Genesee around the former Cherry Hill projects.

One thing I know: I'd hate to hold the debt on the big Aspen development down off East Brighton (#10 on Tom's list). They're tight-lipped about occupancy, but I heard it's hovering around 50%. And they scoffed at the idea of a shuttle service to campus during the planning process, despite the fact that it's about a 40-minute walk with a pretty ugly sidewalk situation for the first four blocks. Now, after ridiculously slow leasing? They've set up a shuttle.

Very interesting. I think the only way for some of these massive projects to survive (like the Aspen project) is going to involve lowering rents and opening them up to not only college students. There actually is a void in the apartment market in the city proper for young professionals. I know in my experience of apartment hunting in my 20's that there are good high-end options downtown and then there are a lot of lower-end options (mediocre to awful apartment complexes or Tipp Hill rentals). There isn't too much in the middle range, and this could be one of those.

 

[TexanMark]

Market forces will cause a self regulation. If the city thinks enough have been built or been approved...they need to end incentives.

The Aspen if they suffer low occupancy needs to pony some funds and work with the city to improve walking and biking access.

 

[shandeezy7]

Market forces will cause a self regulation. If the city thinks enough have been built or been approved...they need to end incentives.

The Aspen if they suffer low occupancy needs to pony some funds and work with the city to improve walking and biking access.

The Aspen project already received tax breaks. I would hope the city/county would not cave any further, unless they really think there is a positive benefit for them.

Big new student apartment project in Syracuse to include tanning beds, sauna

"In November, the Onondaga County Industrial Development Agency approved sales, mortgage recording and property tax exemptions for the project. Those exemptions will be worth $3.47 million over 12 years."

 

[OttoMets]

Market forces will cause a self regulation. If the city thinks enough have been built or been approved...they need to end incentives.

The Aspen if they suffer low occupancy needs to pony some funds and work with the city to improve walking and biking access.

Agree on the last part - the city and local neighborhood group really failed, in my opinion, in extracting decent community benefits from the developer. Continuous sidewalks and maybe a bike lane (though the cross street is really narrow) should have been a must.

Anyway, market forces are skewed by the public incentives, even more so by the truly unique and awful competing IDAs in the city and county. As shan noted, the city didn't think this project deserved public help, so the developer turned around and got help from the county. The county will throw money at any unworthy project.

Unless there's some huge public benefit coming out of a future project, there needs to be a moratorium on tax breaks and incentives for these new-build furnished student projects.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think some combination of options 1 and 2 are possibilities. But stakeholders are aware of the housing problem on the horizon and we'll see some aggressive action here. It'll be interesting to see how vacancies spike when all these projects deliver in August. Anecdotally, it's not a good time to own secondary properties (off the Livingston/Euclid/Westcott corridors) in the SEUNA area. Wonder how this will affect all the converted rental properties up in the hood northeast of campus? That's the one area where the investor rush has arguably helped the city. A ton of students (especially Asian ones) are living north of East Genesee around the former Cherry Hill projects.

One thing I know: I'd hate to hold the debt on the big Aspen development down off East Brighton (#10 on Tom's list). They're tight-lipped about occupancy, but I heard it's hovering around 50%. And they scoffed at the idea of a shuttle service to campus during the planning process, despite the fact that it's about a 40-minute walk with a pretty ugly sidewalk situation for the first four blocks. Now, after ridiculously slow leasing? They've set up a shuttle.

Forgot to add that you make a good point about some of the redevelopment north of E. Genesee. I could see those properties remaining somewhat desirable since they are newly renovated and should be in good condition. It's the neglected properties that are going to be the problem. My hope is that those landlords get forced out and the city has a solution in place to foster rehab of those properties. Time will tell, I suppose. I follow real estate listings in the university area pretty closely, and it does seem to me that properties you would have previously seen listing at $200,000+ because they are income generating properties are listing/selling at lower amounts right now. Possibly a sign of things to come.

 

[OttoMets]

Forgot to add that you make a good point about some of the redevelopment north of E. Genesee. I could see those properties remaining somewhat desirable since they are newly renovated and should be in good condition. It's the neglected properties that are going to be the problem. My hope is that those landlords get forced out and the city has a solution in place to foster rehab of those properties. Time will tell, I suppose. I follow real estate listings in the university area pretty closely, and it does seem to me that properties you would have previously seen listing at $200,000+ because they are income generating properties are listing/selling at lower amounts right now. Possibly a sign of things to come.

Yeah, the only one I can think of is the green house at the corner of Sumner and Euclid. Disappointing, an owner-occupant cashed out and got far over asking with very little time on the market. $305,000 for 1,950 square feet and four bedrooms (obviously the California investor is illegally renting the attic to make that math work). But all the secondary locations have much longer marketing periods and aren't getting asking prices. I think this is reflected in the willingness of the big landlords to stop buying property in Berkeley Park and on the Clarendon hill, too - it's a goodwill gesture, but if the marker were hot, I don't think they'd have been willing to make that compromise.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I would never pay 1500 per month to live in Syracuse. lol Are those prices for real? What is included with that?

 

[shandeezy7]

Yeah, the only one I can think of is the green house at the corner of Sumner and Euclid. Disappointing, an owner-occupant cashed out and got far over asking with very little time on the market. $305,000 for 1,950 square feet and four bedrooms (obviously the California investor is illegally renting the attic to make that math work). But all the secondary locations have much longer marketing periods and aren't getting asking prices. I think this is reflected in the willingness of the big landlords to stop buying property in Berkeley Park and on the Clarendon hill, too - it's a goodwill gesture, but if the marker were hot, I don't think they'd have been willing to make that compromise.

Yeah it's tough to tell a homeowner to not take the best offer they can get, but that's the type of stuff the city needs to be cracking down on when it comes to illegal renting, property code enforcement, etc. Hopefully the new administration will look at it as a priority. Not sure how I feel about homes not selling for asking price. I think it's a good sign that landlords don't see as much value in them, but I also don't want to see home prices plummet in that area.

 

[CuseLegacy]

School of Architecture and Maxwell School to Co-Host Interdisciplinary Forum on Future of I-81

School of Architecture and Maxwell School to Co-Host Interdisciplinary Forum on Future of I-81
Monday, March 12, 2018, By Elaine Wackerow
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CommunityMaxwell School of Citizenship and Public AffairsSchool of Architecture
The School of Architecture and the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs are joining together to co-host an interdisciplinary symposium, “Future Infrastructures: The Over and Under of I-81,” on Thursday, March 22, from 4-6 pm in Slocum Hall Auditorium. The event aims to provide a valuable, fresh perspective to what has already been a long, hotly debated topic within the greater Syracuse community and similarly experienced by many other cities in the U.S. and worldwide.

An underpass of Interstate 81

“Future Infrastructures” will focus on the choices for renovating or re-routing the I-81 elevated highway in Syracuse from both an urban design and public policy perspective. What separates this forum from many others is the coming together of nationally recognized urban design and planning experts in conversation with voices from public policy and political contingents.

Says Syracuse Architecture Associate Professor and Undergraduate Chair Lawrence Davis, one of the event organizers, “Our hope is to create an interdisciplinary dialogue that reaches beyond the university that will inform both the design of the project and policy behind it in ways that consider as many constituencies as possible. We intend to frame our discussion in a way that takes a broader view by, among other things, looking at other cities that have similar challenges with their automotive infrastructure as we have in Syracuse.”

Panelists for the event include: economist Joseph Kane, senior research associate and associate fellow from the Brookings Institution’s Metropolitan Policy Program; Alex Krieger, professor in practice of Urban Design at Harvard University’s Graduate School of Design; Jonnell Robinson, a social geographer and assistant professor of geography at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs; and Ben Walsh, mayor of the City of Syracuse. Grant Reeher, director of the Campbell Public Affairs Institute at the Maxwell School, will moderate the discussion.

This event is free and open to the public. For special accessibility concerns, please contact Deb Witter-Gamba: dwitterg; 315.443.0790.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I would never pay 1500 per month to live in Syracuse. lol Are those prices for real? What is included with that?

I remember paying 400 bucks a month (for just my room) to live on Lancaster in the early 2000s. And I thought that was a ripoff given the four bedroom house was commanding 1600/month in total rent.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I remember paying 400 bucks a month (for just my room) to live on Lancaster in the early 2000s. And I thought that was a ripoff given the four bedroom house was commanding 1600/month in total rent.

I paid $400 for my room to live in a duplex in Norfolk, VA. Same kinda deal. 4 bedrooms/$1,600. It was ODU off campus housing. This was around 2012-2013. I thought my 500 sqft one bedroom in Arlington, VA was crazy expensive at $1,350 (It was the cheapest place I could find around here that wasn't income restricted). I can't imagine paying $1,500 to live in Cuse unless it was my mortgage on a house.

 

[Millhouse]

Can't really disagree with her. Hope city leadership - and SU leadership, for that matter - are paying attention. More apartment units are being built than students are being added to enrollment at SU. One of two things is going to happen here:

1.) These new units won't be filled with students and some projects may fail.
2.) These new projects create a vacuum from the university neighborhood, leading to abandoned properties and further deterioration of the neighborhood.

The second option should be especially concerning to SU and the city, as neither would like to see a rundown neighborhood right next door to the university (at least any more rundown than it already is thanks to shady absentee landlords who rent dumps to college kids).

If I'm the university, I'm putting pressure on the city to start rigorously enforcing property codes. I feel like for far too long, the city has looked the other way on these issues because these landlords pay their taxes, and they have let tax revenue take precedence over healthy neighborhoods. I think it's also worth exploring some sort of incentive to reconvert a lot of these two family homes back into single family homes. Perhaps offering tax breaks to new owners who will occupy these homes. Just feels like something needs to be done or this neighborhood will be lost for good.

a few weeks ago we went to a basketball game and I couldn't believe where these places were springing up. all these pockets of kids will be so isolated from everyone else. it seemed so strange

 

[Millhouse]

Agree on the last part - the city and local neighborhood group really failed, in my opinion, in extracting decent community benefits from the developer. Continuous sidewalks and maybe a bike lane (though the cross street is really narrow) should have been a must.

Anyway, market forces are skewed by the public incentives, even more so by the truly unique and awful competing IDAs in the city and county. As shan noted, the city didn't think this project deserved public help, so the developer turned around and got help from the county. The county will throw money at any unworthy project.

Unless there's some huge public benefit coming out of a future project, there needs to be a moratorium on tax breaks and incentives for these new-build furnished student projects.

the track record of IDAs everywhere is unbelievably bad and we still keep having them (we just rename them)

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Fly Rodder]

Hullar's in Fayetteville is no more. I was never a fan of the place; I went in once and turned around.

Mark Bullis of Bull and Bear apparently purchased the building and plans a full gut and rehab.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Forgive me for not going back through all of this but why not just take 81 away and make people take 481?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Forgive me for not going back through all of this but why not just take 81 away and make people take 481?

Because it will take 5 minutes longer to get to Destiny.