Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[shandeezy7]

Market forces will cause a self regulation. If the city thinks enough have been built or been approved...they need to end incentives.

The Aspen if they suffer low occupancy needs to pony some funds and work with the city to improve walking and biking access.

The Aspen project already received tax breaks. I would hope the city/county would not cave any further, unless they really think there is a positive benefit for them.

Big new student apartment project in Syracuse to include tanning beds, sauna

"In November, the Onondaga County Industrial Development Agency approved sales, mortgage recording and property tax exemptions for the project. Those exemptions will be worth $3.47 million over 12 years."

 

[OttoMets]

Market forces will cause a self regulation. If the city thinks enough have been built or been approved...they need to end incentives.

The Aspen if they suffer low occupancy needs to pony some funds and work with the city to improve walking and biking access.

Agree on the last part - the city and local neighborhood group really failed, in my opinion, in extracting decent community benefits from the developer. Continuous sidewalks and maybe a bike lane (though the cross street is really narrow) should have been a must.

Anyway, market forces are skewed by the public incentives, even more so by the truly unique and awful competing IDAs in the city and county. As shan noted, the city didn't think this project deserved public help, so the developer turned around and got help from the county. The county will throw money at any unworthy project.

Unless there's some huge public benefit coming out of a future project, there needs to be a moratorium on tax breaks and incentives for these new-build furnished student projects.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think some combination of options 1 and 2 are possibilities. But stakeholders are aware of the housing problem on the horizon and we'll see some aggressive action here. It'll be interesting to see how vacancies spike when all these projects deliver in August. Anecdotally, it's not a good time to own secondary properties (off the Livingston/Euclid/Westcott corridors) in the SEUNA area. Wonder how this will affect all the converted rental properties up in the hood northeast of campus? That's the one area where the investor rush has arguably helped the city. A ton of students (especially Asian ones) are living north of East Genesee around the former Cherry Hill projects.

One thing I know: I'd hate to hold the debt on the big Aspen development down off East Brighton (#10 on Tom's list). They're tight-lipped about occupancy, but I heard it's hovering around 50%. And they scoffed at the idea of a shuttle service to campus during the planning process, despite the fact that it's about a 40-minute walk with a pretty ugly sidewalk situation for the first four blocks. Now, after ridiculously slow leasing? They've set up a shuttle.

Forgot to add that you make a good point about some of the redevelopment north of E. Genesee. I could see those properties remaining somewhat desirable since they are newly renovated and should be in good condition. It's the neglected properties that are going to be the problem. My hope is that those landlords get forced out and the city has a solution in place to foster rehab of those properties. Time will tell, I suppose. I follow real estate listings in the university area pretty closely, and it does seem to me that properties you would have previously seen listing at $200,000+ because they are income generating properties are listing/selling at lower amounts right now. Possibly a sign of things to come.

 

[OttoMets]

Forgot to add that you make a good point about some of the redevelopment north of E. Genesee. I could see those properties remaining somewhat desirable since they are newly renovated and should be in good condition. It's the neglected properties that are going to be the problem. My hope is that those landlords get forced out and the city has a solution in place to foster rehab of those properties. Time will tell, I suppose. I follow real estate listings in the university area pretty closely, and it does seem to me that properties you would have previously seen listing at $200,000+ because they are income generating properties are listing/selling at lower amounts right now. Possibly a sign of things to come.

Yeah, the only one I can think of is the green house at the corner of Sumner and Euclid. Disappointing, an owner-occupant cashed out and got far over asking with very little time on the market. $305,000 for 1,950 square feet and four bedrooms (obviously the California investor is illegally renting the attic to make that math work). But all the secondary locations have much longer marketing periods and aren't getting asking prices. I think this is reflected in the willingness of the big landlords to stop buying property in Berkeley Park and on the Clarendon hill, too - it's a goodwill gesture, but if the marker were hot, I don't think they'd have been willing to make that compromise.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I would never pay 1500 per month to live in Syracuse. lol Are those prices for real? What is included with that?

 

[shandeezy7]

Yeah, the only one I can think of is the green house at the corner of Sumner and Euclid. Disappointing, an owner-occupant cashed out and got far over asking with very little time on the market. $305,000 for 1,950 square feet and four bedrooms (obviously the California investor is illegally renting the attic to make that math work). But all the secondary locations have much longer marketing periods and aren't getting asking prices. I think this is reflected in the willingness of the big landlords to stop buying property in Berkeley Park and on the Clarendon hill, too - it's a goodwill gesture, but if the marker were hot, I don't think they'd have been willing to make that compromise.

Yeah it's tough to tell a homeowner to not take the best offer they can get, but that's the type of stuff the city needs to be cracking down on when it comes to illegal renting, property code enforcement, etc. Hopefully the new administration will look at it as a priority. Not sure how I feel about homes not selling for asking price. I think it's a good sign that landlords don't see as much value in them, but I also don't want to see home prices plummet in that area.

 

[CuseLegacy]

School of Architecture and Maxwell School to Co-Host Interdisciplinary Forum on Future of I-81

School of Architecture and Maxwell School to Co-Host Interdisciplinary Forum on Future of I-81
Monday, March 12, 2018, By Elaine Wackerow
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CommunityMaxwell School of Citizenship and Public AffairsSchool of Architecture
The School of Architecture and the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs are joining together to co-host an interdisciplinary symposium, “Future Infrastructures: The Over and Under of I-81,” on Thursday, March 22, from 4-6 pm in Slocum Hall Auditorium. The event aims to provide a valuable, fresh perspective to what has already been a long, hotly debated topic within the greater Syracuse community and similarly experienced by many other cities in the U.S. and worldwide.

An underpass of Interstate 81

“Future Infrastructures” will focus on the choices for renovating or re-routing the I-81 elevated highway in Syracuse from both an urban design and public policy perspective. What separates this forum from many others is the coming together of nationally recognized urban design and planning experts in conversation with voices from public policy and political contingents.

Says Syracuse Architecture Associate Professor and Undergraduate Chair Lawrence Davis, one of the event organizers, “Our hope is to create an interdisciplinary dialogue that reaches beyond the university that will inform both the design of the project and policy behind it in ways that consider as many constituencies as possible. We intend to frame our discussion in a way that takes a broader view by, among other things, looking at other cities that have similar challenges with their automotive infrastructure as we have in Syracuse.”

Panelists for the event include: economist Joseph Kane, senior research associate and associate fellow from the Brookings Institution’s Metropolitan Policy Program; Alex Krieger, professor in practice of Urban Design at Harvard University’s Graduate School of Design; Jonnell Robinson, a social geographer and assistant professor of geography at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs; and Ben Walsh, mayor of the City of Syracuse. Grant Reeher, director of the Campbell Public Affairs Institute at the Maxwell School, will moderate the discussion.

This event is free and open to the public. For special accessibility concerns, please contact Deb Witter-Gamba: dwitterg; 315.443.0790.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I would never pay 1500 per month to live in Syracuse. lol Are those prices for real? What is included with that?

I remember paying 400 bucks a month (for just my room) to live on Lancaster in the early 2000s. And I thought that was a ripoff given the four bedroom house was commanding 1600/month in total rent.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I remember paying 400 bucks a month (for just my room) to live on Lancaster in the early 2000s. And I thought that was a ripoff given the four bedroom house was commanding 1600/month in total rent.

I paid $400 for my room to live in a duplex in Norfolk, VA. Same kinda deal. 4 bedrooms/$1,600. It was ODU off campus housing. This was around 2012-2013. I thought my 500 sqft one bedroom in Arlington, VA was crazy expensive at $1,350 (It was the cheapest place I could find around here that wasn't income restricted). I can't imagine paying $1,500 to live in Cuse unless it was my mortgage on a house.

 

[Millhouse]

Can't really disagree with her. Hope city leadership - and SU leadership, for that matter - are paying attention. More apartment units are being built than students are being added to enrollment at SU. One of two things is going to happen here:

1.) These new units won't be filled with students and some projects may fail.
2.) These new projects create a vacuum from the university neighborhood, leading to abandoned properties and further deterioration of the neighborhood.

The second option should be especially concerning to SU and the city, as neither would like to see a rundown neighborhood right next door to the university (at least any more rundown than it already is thanks to shady absentee landlords who rent dumps to college kids).

If I'm the university, I'm putting pressure on the city to start rigorously enforcing property codes. I feel like for far too long, the city has looked the other way on these issues because these landlords pay their taxes, and they have let tax revenue take precedence over healthy neighborhoods. I think it's also worth exploring some sort of incentive to reconvert a lot of these two family homes back into single family homes. Perhaps offering tax breaks to new owners who will occupy these homes. Just feels like something needs to be done or this neighborhood will be lost for good.

a few weeks ago we went to a basketball game and I couldn't believe where these places were springing up. all these pockets of kids will be so isolated from everyone else. it seemed so strange

 

[Millhouse]

Agree on the last part - the city and local neighborhood group really failed, in my opinion, in extracting decent community benefits from the developer. Continuous sidewalks and maybe a bike lane (though the cross street is really narrow) should have been a must.

Anyway, market forces are skewed by the public incentives, even more so by the truly unique and awful competing IDAs in the city and county. As shan noted, the city didn't think this project deserved public help, so the developer turned around and got help from the county. The county will throw money at any unworthy project.

Unless there's some huge public benefit coming out of a future project, there needs to be a moratorium on tax breaks and incentives for these new-build furnished student projects.

the track record of IDAs everywhere is unbelievably bad and we still keep having them (we just rename them)

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Fly Rodder]

Hullar's in Fayetteville is no more. I was never a fan of the place; I went in once and turned around.

Mark Bullis of Bull and Bear apparently purchased the building and plans a full gut and rehab.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Forgive me for not going back through all of this but why not just take 81 away and make people take 481?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Forgive me for not going back through all of this but why not just take 81 away and make people take 481?

Because it will take 5 minutes longer to get to Destiny.

 

[shandeezy7]

Forgive me for not going back through all of this but why not just take 81 away and make people take 481?

If so many special interests weren't involved, that would have already happened several years ago.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Because it will take 5 minutes longer to get to Destiny.

Haha thank you for this. I kind of figured there's way more at play than my little brain can handle. Just seems way simpler than they make it out to be

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Because it will take 5 minutes longer to get to Destiny.

Right. Because it takes 5 minutes to navigate Erie Blvd. Stop and go traffic is not environmentally friendly.

 

[shandeezy7]

Right. Because it takes 5 minutes to navigate Erie Blvd. Stop and go traffic is not environmentally friendly.

If you end up on Erie Blvd trying to get to Destiny, then you have taken a very wrong turn somewhere...

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If you end up on Erie Blvd trying to get to Destiny, then you have taken a very wrong turn somewhere...

The downtown grid will turn into another Erie Blvd. Sometimes you gotta look for the meaning in words.
Also, lots of people might be on Erie Blvd on their way to Destiny

 

[General20]

Right. Because it takes 5 minutes to navigate Erie Blvd. Stop and go traffic is not environmentally friendly.

We are talking about ONE MILE OF ROAD.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We are talking about ONE MILE OF ROAD.

90,000 cars a day

 

[shandeezy7]

The downtown grid will turn into another Erie Blvd. Sometimes you gotta look for the meaning in words.
Also, lots of people might be on Erie Blvd on their way to Destiny

Wrong and wrong. If you are using Erie Blvd or the community grid to get to the mall (or anywhere north of Syracuse) then you aren't very good at directions. The only people using that route would be people who live/work downtown or in the immediate areas south of downtown. Otherwise, take 481 (the new 81) to 690. Pretty simple.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Wrong and wrong. If you are using Erie Blvd or the community grid to get to the mall (or anywhere north of Syracuse) then you aren't very good at directions. The only people using that route would be people who live/work downtown or in the immediate areas south of downtown. Otherwise, take 481 (the new 81) to 690. Pretty simple.

No. You are wrong. I responded to the post that NO ONE would use Erie Blvd to get to Destiny. Clearly wrong.
My point is that using the grid will cause delays getting through the city. For those of us north and west, the 690 to 481 is very much out of the way, and driving through the next Erie Blvd will be a pain.

I also thinks it's crap that taking 81 down will connect the two sides. How? There will still be a 4-6 lane road, with 90k vehicles a day, between the 2 areas.

Think 481 in Fulton, but far worse.

The tunnel would open that up, but there are cost and maintenance issues. (Snow removal through the tunnel?)

The grid may be the best of the solutions, but it's not optimal, and the rationale being spewed is bogus and agenda driven.

 

[longtimefan]

No. You are wrong. I responded to the post that NO ONE would use Erie Blvd to get to Destiny. Clearly wrong.
My point is that using the grid will cause delays getting through the city. For those of us north and west, the 690 to 481 is very much out of the way, and driving through the next Erie Blvd will be a pain.

I also thinks it's crap that taking 81 down will connect the two sides. How? There will still be a 4-6 lane road, with 90k vehicles a day, between the 2 areas.

Think 481 in Fulton, but far worse.

The tunnel would open that up, but there are cost and maintenance issues. (Snow removal through the tunnel?)

The grid may be the best of the solutions, but it's not optimal, and the rationale being spewed is bogus and agenda driven.

"Don't the perfect be the enemy of the good."