Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[OttoMets]

The War Memorial has 91,000 square feet of event and meeting space. Not sure about the square footage of the entire building.

That sounds about right - 50,000 in the basement and maybe 80 percent of that upstairs. I think the new flex space at the fair is about 110,000. And it's apples and oranges, anyway - one is an arena next door to a convention center; the other is a convention space (unneeded in Onondaga County, unfortunately) with a few thousand portable bleachers. The War Memorial's a larger arena by any metric and it'd cost way more than $60 million to replicate that.

 

[reedny]

OttoM, what do you think of the argument that the Community Grid option would create another Erie Blvd? That makes it sound very unappealing. Currently, I come in from the Thruway, with 481 as an alternate route. If SU builds a new facility at Skytop, 481 would become primary. Right now, 690 to 81S is dicey .. fast traffic and then a weird disappearing lane right before the Harrison exit, followed by gridlock under the expressway (very unsightly and inefficient).

 

[FrancoPizza]

That sounds about right - 50,000 in the basement and maybe 80 percent of that upstairs. I think the new flex space at the fair is about 110,000. And it's apples and oranges, anyway - one is an arena next door to a convention center; the other is a convention space (unneeded in Onondaga County, unfortunately) with a few thousand portable bleachers. The War Memorial's a larger arena by any metric and it'd cost way more than $60 million to replicate that.

I know the total cost for a new war memorial would far exceed $60M but it would sure be a nice start to have that in the bank.

 

[TexanMark]

OttoM, what do you think of the argument that the Community Grid option would create another Erie Blvd? That makes it sound very unappealing. Currently, I come in from the Thruway, with 481 as an alternate route. If SU builds a new facility at Skytop, 481 would become primary. Right now, 690 to 81S is dicey .. fast traffic and then a weird disappearing lane right before the Harrison exit, followed by gridlock under the expressway (very unsightly and inefficient).

Reed, you would come down I-690 and exit just east of downtown in the grid option

 

[reedny]

Reed, you would come down I-690 and exit just east of downtown in the grid option

Ok. Actually, the 481 option (from 360) is pretty good - at your suggestion I believe. If they build at Skytop, this would be even better. But that route (coming in from the North) avoids lots of 81 trouble.

 

[SmilinBob]

Add a lane on 81S from 690 dedicated to SU and call it a day.

 

[OttoMets]

OttoM, what do you think of the argument that the Community Grid option would create another Erie Blvd? That makes it sound very unappealing. Currently, I come in from the Thruway, with 481 as an alternate route. If SU builds a new facility at Skytop, 481 would become primary. Right now, 690 to 81S is dicey .. fast traffic and then a weird disappearing lane right before the Harrison exit, followed by gridlock under the expressway (very unsightly and inefficient).

What Mark said. It'd speed commutes for some; Almond Street would function as just another city street rather than an arterial like Erie Boulevard, and most of the streets in the neighborhood are currently at ~10% capacity. There's a lot of room for more traffic on McBride, Townsend, State, et al.

 

[shandeezy7]

Changes to Erie Boulevard proposed:

DOT releases images of proposed changes to Erie Boulevard for statewide bike trail

 

[OttoMets]

Changes to Erie Boulevard proposed:

DOT releases images of proposed changes to Erie Boulevard for statewide bike trail

NYSDOT's been quiet about this and the related project on Erie in Syracuse. This has the potential to create a great new linear park in the area, though the project seems to be rushed through with an ambitious timeline. Of all of Cuomo's attempted vote-buying in Upstate, this actually seems like it's worth the money.

 

[shandeezy7]

NYSDOT's been quiet about this and the related project on Erie in Syracuse. This has the potential to create a great new linear park in the area, though the project seems to be rushed through with an ambitious timeline. Of all of Cuomo's attempted vote-buying in Upstate, this actually seems like it's worth the money.

It will be interesting as to the effect that it has on Erie Blvd, as many areas, especially between downtown and Thompson Road are about 25 years past a much needed upgraded. Too many run-down shops and poorly utilized spaces.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Changes to Erie Boulevard proposed:

DOT releases images of proposed changes to Erie Boulevard for statewide bike trail

Since 690 is already down to two lanes, why don't they make that the bike trail.

 

[shandeezy7]

Another long overdue measure. Hopefully this is a sign that the current administration will put an actual emphasis on neighborhood development and quality of life, instead of happily accepting tax payments from slumlords while turning a blind eye to derelict properties.

After 2 years of trying, Syracuse council passes rental inspection law

 

[tipphill]

Syracuse would greatly benefit from a new downtown arena. But the state was only putting up 25% of the money. Where was the other funding coming from? And why was Mahoney trying to push the project thru with no review? Isn’t that a formula for the arena to be poorly planned and overrun with design flaws that make it at best harder and more expensive to operate and at worst unusable for the type of events that would make it profitable?

Would you buy a to-be-built house from a contractor that wouldn’t show you the plans, much less let you ask pertinent questions about it?

you have an enormous number of assumptions in this response. i also have some such as:we do not know the full story, other than miner is intractable and has a hx. of being hard to work with and a obstructionist.
there maybe other discussions/deals going on re this or other projects that we have no knowledge about.
why have so many other upstate cities received major money from the state (buffalo,utica,albany etc etc) without issue????and syracuse doesn't??? why is that??
hows the amphitheater working out ---many people did not want that either??? how has destiny worked out for the economy-----that was opposed as well.????
was the public informed or included in the decision to declare the syracuse a sanctuary city??? what additional public funds are used to support the already stretched public services for that decision such as education(which is already horrible),healthcare, public assistance, food stamps,law enforcement etc.
my simple point is that there are so much politics involved that we never get the full story. this will always be an issue. you will never convince me that money for infrastructure improvements would not be included in the planning process. miner was excluded due to what i said before. her ego got hurt and she would not negotiate.

 

[dooey139]

St. Joe's will be the sponsor on Lakeview Amphitheater, per an email my GF got from the CEO. I assume it will be announced today too.

 

[shandeezy7]

you have an enormous number of assumptions in this response. i also have some such as:we do not know the full story, other than miner is intractable and has a hx. of being hard to work with and a obstructionist.
there maybe other discussions/deals going on re this or other projects that we have no knowledge about.
why have so many other upstate cities received major money from the state (buffalo,utica,albany etc etc) without issue????and syracuse doesn't??? why is that??
hows the amphitheater working out ---many people did not want that either??? how has destiny worked out for the economy-----that was opposed as well.????
was the public informed or included in the decision to declare the syracuse a sanctuary city??? what additional public funds are used to support the already stretched public services for that decision such as education(which is already horrible),healthcare, public assistance, food stamps,law enforcement etc.
my simple point is that there are so much politics involved that we never get the full story. this will always be an issue. you will never convince me that money for infrastructure improvements would not be included in the planning process. miner was excluded due to what i said before. her ego got hurt and she would not negotiate.

To provide a counter-argument (beyond your off-topic rant about sanctuary cities), projects tied into state money in Buffalo, Syracuse and Albany all ended up swept up in a massive corruption trial that kinda sorta proved the people right who were saying that this was all rushed and done under dubious circumstances.

The Buffalo project has seen $750 million invested in a state-of-the-art factory that has had massive cost overruns, construction delays and now a company operating it that appears to be floundering. The big money invested in Utica came crumbling apart when the chip manufacturer backed out of the deal - after construction had already started. There's a new company moving in, but one promising 70% less jobs than the original company. So lets not pretend that everything is all rosy as it relates to state money invested elsewhere around the state, because that's some serious truth-bending.

 

[shandeezy7]

St. Joe's will be the sponsor on Lakeview Amphitheater, per an email my GF got from the CEO. I assume it will be announced today too.

So after earning a profit for the first time in 5 years last year, they are just going to start throwing cash around? Interesting.

 

[OttoMets]

So after earning a profit for the first time in 5 years last year, they are just going to start throwing cash around? Interesting.

This is weird on two levels. One: yeah, their finances have been shaky and a couple friends who work there have told me that the recent affiliation with the larger network (or maybe they were completely purchased by another medical group, I didn't pay full attention) has led to an atmosphere of nickel-diming, cheaper supplies, generally they're not flush with money. So this doesn't seem to be a solid use of funds.

Second, when the county couldn't find a naming partner before the facility opened (or at least before last season), that burned a lot of the prospective brand value. Going two+ years without a corporate name left a void for a popularly-recognized name to take root, and it has: The Amp.

So good for the county for earning a few more bucks to pay their unqualified dope of a parks commissioner (who's marginally better than the city's parks commissioner in that he's not facing jail time) or do a haphazard job mowing lawns and cutting down sick ash trees. But St. Joseph's might have got the short end of the stick on this deal.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

To provide a counter-argument (beyond your off-topic rant about sanctuary cities), projects tied into state money in Buffalo, Syracuse and Albany all ended up swept up in a massive corruption trial that kinda sorta proved the people right who were saying that this was all rushed and done under dubious circumstances.

The Buffalo project has seen $750 million invested in a state-of-the-art factory that has had massive cost overruns, construction delays and now a company operating it that appears to be floundering. The big money invested in Utica came crumbling apart when the chip manufacturer backed out of the deal - after construction had already started. There's a new company moving in, but one promising 70% less jobs than the original company. So lets not pretend that everything is all rosy as it relates to state money invested elsewhere around the state, because that's some serious truth-bending.

Can't spell corrupt without Andrew Cuomo.

 

[dooey139]

This is weird on two levels. One: yeah, their finances have been shaky and a couple friends who work there have told me that the recent affiliation with the larger network (or maybe they were completely purchased by another medical group, I didn't pay full attention) has led to an atmosphere of nickel-diming, cheaper supplies, generally they're not flush with money. So this doesn't seem to be a solid use of funds.

Second, when the county couldn't find a naming partner before the facility opened (or at least before last season), that burned a lot of the prospective brand value. Going two+ years without a corporate name left a void for a popularly-recognized name to take root, and it has: The Amp.

So good for the county for earning a few more bucks to pay their unqualified dope of a parks commissioner (who's marginally better than the city's parks commissioner in that he's not facing jail time) or do a haphazard job mowing lawns and cutting down sick ash trees. But St. Joseph's might have got the short end of the stick on this deal.

You don't think "St. Joseph's Health Amphitheater at Lakeview" is gonna catch on??

Onondaga County reveals who bought amphitheater naming rights for $750K

 

[alphaorange]

This is weird on two levels. One: yeah, their finances have been shaky and a couple friends who work there have told me that the recent affiliation with the larger network (or maybe they were completely purchased by another medical group, I didn't pay full attention) has led to an atmosphere of nickel-diming, cheaper supplies, generally they're not flush with money. So this doesn't seem to be a solid use of funds.

Second, when the county couldn't find a naming partner before the facility opened (or at least before last season), that burned a lot of the prospective brand value. Going two+ years without a corporate name left a void for a popularly-recognized name to take root, and it has: The Amp.

So good for the county for earning a few more bucks to pay their unqualified dope of a parks commissioner (who's marginally better than the city's parks commissioner in that he's not facing jail time) or do a haphazard job mowing lawns and cutting down sick ash trees. But St. Joseph's might have got the short end of the stick on this deal.

Yes on the first. All true. Tons of personnel cutbacks to the point that saftey seems to be compromised in some cases. The group you are trying to think of is the Trinity group. The benefits have just about bottomed out. Not the place is was once.

 

[Newhouser]

This is weird on two levels. One: yeah, their finances have been shaky and a couple friends who work there have told me that the recent affiliation with the larger network (or maybe they were completely purchased by another medical group, I didn't pay full attention) has led to an atmosphere of nickel-diming, cheaper supplies, generally they're not flush with money. So this doesn't seem to be a solid use of funds.

Second, when the county couldn't find a naming partner before the facility opened (or at least before last season), that burned a lot of the prospective brand value. Going two+ years without a corporate name left a void for a popularly-recognized name to take root, and it has: The Amp.

So good for the county for earning a few more bucks to pay their unqualified dope of a parks commissioner (who's marginally better than the city's parks commissioner in that he's not facing jail time) or do a haphazard job mowing lawns and cutting down sick ash trees. But St. Joseph's might have got the short end of the stick on this deal.

There has to be something for St Joe's in another deal or else this makes no sense.

 

[TexanMark]

There has to be something for St Joe's in another deal or else this makes no sense.

All the Amphitheater drunks and O.D. victims will go to St Joe's

 

[FrancoPizza]

There has to be something for St Joe's in another deal or else this makes no sense.

They're getting a cash advance from someone, obviously.

 

[SmilinBob]

This is weird on two levels. One: yeah, their finances have been shaky and a couple friends who work there have told me that the recent affiliation with the larger network (or maybe they were completely purchased by another medical group, I didn't pay full attention) has led to an atmosphere of nickel-diming, cheaper supplies, generally they're not flush with money. So this doesn't seem to be a solid use of funds.

Second, when the county couldn't find a naming partner before the facility opened (or at least before last season), that burned a lot of the prospective brand value. Going two+ years without a corporate name left a void for a popularly-recognized name to take root, and it has: The Amp.

So good for the county for earning a few more bucks to pay their unqualified dope of a parks commissioner (who's marginally better than the city's parks commissioner in that he's not facing jail time) or do a haphazard job mowing lawns and cutting down sick ash trees. But St. Joseph's might have got the short end of the stick on this deal.

Sounds like shaky potatjoes to me.

 

[longtimefan]

This thread is to discuss development in and around Syracuse except for the SU campus.

Use the Future Campus Framework Discussion thread to discuss development on the SU campus.

I-81 situations across the country.
America Begins Capping Freeway Scars of the Past