Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[KellySyracuse]

 

[OttoMets]

Cuomo: 2 Syracuse-area expansions bring 430 jobs, 5G manufacturing to city

JMA Wireless, a maker of wireless communications equipment, completed a $34 million expansion in 2017 that has created 288 new full-time jobs at its world headquarters in Clay.

www.syracuse.com

Now that it's public, I can share my opinion: I was skeptical that it's beneficial for the neighborhood (where COR and Pyramid own ~100 acres that they don't have the means or desire to develop) for BHG to control such a huge parcel (6.2 acres on a superblock) in a prime location by the harbor. When I heard that BHG was talking about building 100,000 square feet (a pretty small building - smaller than Pioneer's newish Armory building at 333 West Washington, for reference), that solidified this take.

I know they're working closely with the city, but this isn't efficient land use in what's supposed to be a smart development neighborhood.

JMA's partnership with the Surge initiative is great news, though.

 

[shandeezy7]

Cuomo: 2 Syracuse-area expansions bring 430 jobs, 5G manufacturing to city

JMA Wireless, a maker of wireless communications equipment, completed a $34 million expansion in 2017 that has created 288 new full-time jobs at its world headquarters in Clay.

www.syracuse.com

Now that it's public, I can share my opinion: I was skeptical that it's beneficial for the neighborhood (where COR and Pyramid own ~100 acres that they don't have the means or desire to develop) for BHG to control such a huge parcel (6.2 acres on a superblock) in a prime location by the harbor. When I heard that BHG was talking about building 100,000 square feet (a pretty small building - smaller than Pioneer's newish Armory building at 333 West Washington, for reference), that solidified this take.

I know they're working closely with the city, but this isn't efficient land use in what's supposed to be a smart development neighborhood.

JMA's partnership with the Surge initiative is great news, though.

I know we've spoken about BHG offline, but a couple of things to add to this that make me lean toward the BHG news being much more positive than negative:

1.) Removal of the bus depot was 100% necessary if the Inner Harbor neighborhood ever wants to become more than what it is now. It's an eyesore and occupies a large chunk of prime real estate adjacent to downtown. Not sure if that happens without the investment committed to by BHG.
2.) I know for certain that BHG was thisclose to relocating to an adjacent suburb due to being unable to find a space/location that fit their needs. This deal keeps 200+ jobs in the city (downtown adjacent), with the prospect of bringing in several hundred more workers to the area.
3.) BHG built a new headquarters adjacent to the bus depot several years ago, and outgrew it within a year or so. I'm sure the seemingly large parcel that they will be occupying will serve several functions, including parking for hundreds employees, and the ability to expand on land that they currently own, if necessary down the road.

 

[OttoMets]

I know we've spoken about BHG offline, but a couple of things to add to this that make me lean toward the BHG news being much more positive than negative:

1.) Removal of the bus depot was 100% necessary if the Inner Harbor neighborhood ever wants to become more than what it is now. It's an eyesore and occupies a large chunk of prime real estate adjacent to downtown. Not sure if that happens without the investment committed to by BHG.
2.) I know for certain that BHG was thisclose to relocating to an adjacent suburb due to being unable to find a space/location that fit their needs. This deal keeps 200+ jobs in the city (downtown adjacent), with the prospect of bringing in several hundred more workers to the area.
3.) BHG built a new headquarters adjacent to the bus depot several years ago, and outgrew it within a year or so. I'm sure the seemingly large parcel that they will be occupying will serve several functions, including parking for hundreds employees, and the ability to expand on land that they currently own, if necessary down the road.

Yeah, I know mine sounds a little to close to a CNYHOTTAKE, and these are positive things, but I'm going to hate to see more suburban development coming to the neighborhood. Hope the final approved design is heavy on the transitional parking/land held for future development and light on the low-density sprawl that characterizes most of what's recently been built. Four stories concentrated on the east side of the site would be best.

 

[shandeezy7]

Yeah, I know mine sounds a little to close to a CNYHOTTAKE, and these are positive things, but I'm going to hate to see more suburban development coming to the neighborhood. Hope the final approved design is heavy on the transitional parking/land held for future development and light on the low-density sprawl that characterizes most of what's recently been built. Four stories concentrated on the east side of the site would be best.

Allegedly, demo starts on Friday, so maybe we will find out sooner than later what the plan for the site will look like?

 

[OttoMets]

Allegedly, demo starts on Friday, so maybe we will find out sooner than later what the plan for the site will look like?

I believe they've got an aggressive construction timetable and will be in front of the Planning Commission before winter.

 

[shandeezy7]

M&T Bank selling historic downtown Syracuse building

The bank expects to reach an agreement by the end of the year to sell the 122-year-old building overlooking Clinton Square.

www.syracuse.com

Kinf of a bummer, but I could see why they wouldn't want to hang on to a building that has way more space than they need. Kinda sounds like they weren't all that interested in investing any money into it for redevelopment and would rather just unload it.
Too bad they can't still maintain their branch in there though. It's probably the most beautiful bank in all of CNY. Hopefully someone with good intentions buys it and preserves it. Don't need another out-of-area/out-of-country landlord swooping in and letting it rot.

 

[OttoMets]

M&T Bank selling historic downtown Syracuse building

The bank expects to reach an agreement by the end of the year to sell the 122-year-old building overlooking Clinton Square.

www.syracuse.com

Kinf of a bummer, but I could see why they wouldn't want to hang on to a building that has way more space than they need. Kinda sounds like they weren't all that interested in investing any money into it for redevelopment and would rather just unload it.
Too bad they can't still maintain their branch in there though. It's probably the most beautiful bank in all of CNY. Hopefully someone with good intentions buys it and preserves it. Don't need another out-of-area/out-of-country landlord swooping in and letting it rot.

As a very minor aside to most, Nick's Place closed a few weeks ago. It was a really neat old-school coffeeshop in the Vanderbilt Mall (the interior retail arcade in that building) with surprisingly good food.

Between the bank branch and the mall, that's one of my favorite local buildings. It's a shame the bank can't justify a long-term leaseback of the branch space; even in a changing retail banking climate, I think that space is great advertising for them.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I went to a restaurant in Worcester, MA many years ago that was a converted bank in a historic building. It was beautiful and unique. If I recall they built an open kitchen concept behind what was the teller desks, that's all I remember though. It had to be 25 years ago. Granted this place was much, much smaller than the M&T branch here.

There is a lot of opportunity to be had with that building, it's at the center of everything.

 

[OttoMets]

I went to a restaurant in Worcester, MA many years ago that was a converted bank in a historic building. It was beautiful and unique. If I recall they built an open kitchen concept behind what was the teller desks, that's all I remember though. It had to be 25 years ago. Granted this place was much, much smaller than the M&T branch here.

There is a lot of opportunity to be had with that building, it's at the center of everything.

There's a grocery store with prepared food in downtown Cleveland that's done something similar.

 

[shandeezy7]

See what Bankers Healthcare Group’s new HQ near Syracuse Inner Harbor will look like

The financial services company plans to create 330 jobs at the facility near the Syracuse Inner Harbor.

www.syracuse.com

 

[OttoMets]

See what Bankers Healthcare Group’s new HQ near Syracuse Inner Harbor will look like

The financial services company plans to create 330 jobs at the facility near the Syracuse Inner Harbor.

www.syracuse.com

Quick take. King + King does good work. Looks better than I might have feared. Needs street-facing retail on both frontages; hope that is revised in predevelopment with the city.

Aside: the city and its consultants drafted excellent zoning standards specific to the Lakefront before the neighborhood was developed, but they've been handing out variances left and right in the last decade. Bad precedent. Hope it doesn't continue with this project.

 

[shandeezy7]

Quick take. King + King does good work. Looks better than I might have feared. Needs street-facing retail on both frontages; hope that is revised in predevelopment with the city.

Aside: the city and its consultants drafted excellent zoning standards specific to the Lakefront before the neighborhood was developed, but they've been handing out variances left and right in the last decade. Bad precedent. Hope it doesn't continue with this project.

While street-facing retail would be nice, I think it's tough to expect that out of all new builds. Or if you do expect it, you end up with things like the new student housing development on Genesee with empty storefronts.

 

[Fly Rodder]

While street-facing retail would be nice, I think it's tough to expect that out of all new builds. Or if you do expect it, you end up with things like the new student housing development on Genesee with empty storefronts.

coffee shops, coffee shops, and more coffee shops.

I agree. Nothing wrong with street facing offices, though. Sugarman building near the MOST is a good example.

 

[OttoMets]

While street-facing retail would be nice, I think it's tough to expect that out of all new builds. Or if you do expect it, you end up with things like the new student housing development on Genesee with empty storefronts.

It's a slow absorption period for retail, especially in this market, no doubt about it. But at such a major intersection, dead street space won't do. I'd be surprised to see a full variance, though they might just wind up with a 1,000-square-foot corner space.

 

[Ghost]

As a very minor aside to most, Nick's Place closed a few weeks ago. It was a really neat old-school coffeeshop in the Vanderbilt Mall (the interior retail arcade in that building) with surprisingly good food.

Between the bank branch and the mall, that's one of my favorite local buildings. It's a shame the bank can't justify a long-term leaseback of the branch space; even in a changing retail banking climate, I think that space is great advertising for them.

No kidding? I used to eat there on Friday afternoons sometimes...wow.

 

[KellySyracuse]

coffee shops, coffee shops, and more coffee shops.

I agree. Nothing wrong with street facing offices, though. Sugarman building near the MOST is a good example.

you know what would be good there, an automat. I'm surprised an updated version of these have not made a comeback yet

Horn and Hardart Automats: Redefining lunchtime, dining on a dime | 6sqft

In the 1930s, ‘40s, and ‘50s Horn & Hardart Automats were a New York City dining staple for a hard-working lunch crowd.

www.6sqft.com

 

[OttoMets]

coffee shops, coffee shops, and more coffee shops.

I agree. Nothing wrong with street facing offices, though. Sugarman building near the MOST is a good example.

Actually, a (progressive) local developer pointed out to me that WSP and its architect did a poor job with that space - the better comps for how to do it are around the corner in a couple directions, both at East Jefferson and South Warren (the back side of the Cafe Kubal block, I forget the tenant) and the office space at Center Armory on Walton. Both physical buildings are built to the property line and (I think this is common knowledge and not divulging confidential terms) their leases call for the blinds to remain open during business hours.

Sugarman has that cheapo landscaping buffering the building from the sidewalk and the building doesn't engage with the streetscape in any meaningful way. The developer learned from this mistake - there's a big difference between this and the Advance Media space in his Merchants Bank redevelopment downtown.

Retail trumps office space, but if the developer's got a hardship, office space can be made to work. At Solar and Kirkpatrick, IMO, it needs to be the former. Gotta create a streetscape conducive to drawing guests at the Aloft to walk south on Solar in the evening. The purpose behind the Lakefront zoning, after all, was to correct the mistakes that created the suburban office park nature of Franklin Square.

 

[OttoMets]

No kidding? I used to eat there on Friday afternoons sometimes...wow.

They had a much better burger than most people would expect. Very nice staff and a funky old-time atmosphere, too. I'll miss it.

 

[shandeezy7]

This project came to a standstill (financing issues, presumably). Is this realistic that it will be completed and up and running as an extended stay hotel by next year?

 

[Ghost]

This project came to a standstill (financing issues, presumably). Is this realistic that it will be completed and up and running as an extended stay hotel by next year?

The Hyatt is still a hotel chain?

 

[KellySyracuse]

This project came to a standstill (financing issues, presumably). Is this realistic that it will be completed and up and running as an extended stay hotel by next year?

is that next to the Marriott Downtown?

 

[shandeezy7]

The Hyatt is still a hotel chain?

I can't tell if this is a serious question or not. 700+ properties in 54 countries. $4+ billion in annual revenue. 45,000+ employees. Yes, it's still a chain.

 

[shandeezy7]

is that next to the Marriott Downtown?

Yes, it was formerly owned by Hotel Syracuse. Been "under construction" for a couple of years now.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I can't tell if this is a serious question or not. 700+ properties in 54 countries. $4+ billion in annual revenue. 45,000+ employees. Yes, it's still a chain.

I've come to realize you have to suspend reality when reading Ghost's messages, they are smoking H0T Takes.