Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[OttoMets]

I'd like to have a better answer for this, but I don't.

My understanding is that part of the problem is a chicken-or-egg situation: Central New York's industrial building stock is badly dated, so it's difficult to get national firms to lease existing space; it's also difficult to get the space built, because nobody's leasing (at competitive rates at least).

We've got millions of square feet of vacant but fairly useless (by modern standards) space in the market -- think of the vacant General Motors and Magna/NPG complexes -- in pretty good locations. Unfortunately, they're in those locations for a reason and now present obstacles to redevelopment. I think FedEx or a developer did a good job building a new facility on a portion of the NPG property, but that's not a big building.

TLDR: the good sites are taken by bad buildings.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I'd like to have a better answer for this, but I don't.

My understanding is that part of the problem is a chicken-or-egg situation: Central New York's industrial building stock is badly dated, so it's difficult to get national firms to lease existing space; it's also difficult to get the space built, because nobody's leasing (at competitive rates at least).

We've got millions of square feet of vacant but fairly useless (by modern standards) space in the market -- think of the vacant General Motors and Magna/NPG complexes -- in pretty good locations. Unfortunately, they're in those locations for a reason and now present obstacles to redevelopment. I think FedEx or a developer did a good job building a new facility on a portion of the NPG property, but that's not a big building.

TLDR: the good sites are taken by bad buildings.

Some of those huge empty mfg sites also carry the possible liability of future heavy metal etc cleanups.

 

[OttoMets]

Some of those huge empty mfg sites also carry the possible liability of future heavy metal etc cleanups.

Good call. I think it's not a coincidence that two of the largest completed or proposed industrial developments in CNY in recent memory are on golf courses. No so much liability there.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Good call. I think it's not a coincidence that two of the largest completed or proposed industrial developments in CNY in recent memory are on golf courses. No so much liability there.

There is a reason why the former Carrier facility is now a fenced and gated "park".

 

[Cheriehoop]

It’s a shame that when a mfg leaves that there isn’t a binding legal requirement to clean up the site or tie it in to the lucrative tax breaks they are initially offered.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It’s a shame that when a mfg leaves that there isn’t a binding legal requirement to clean up the site or tie it in to the lucrative tax breaks they are initially offered.

Carrier/United hasn't technically left. They still own the campus. It looked like they did complete a cleanup when they demo'd the buildings. But since they own the property, they can remediate to the standards of the property use (so long as there is no contamination migrating offsite). Industrial standards are more lax than commercial and commercial more lax than residential, etc. Cleanups are risk-based so if there is no risk (e.g., people aren't drinking the water or touching the soil, gardening, etc), there will probably be something left in the ground because A) it's obscenely expensive to cleanup subsurface releases and B) there are diminishing returns on any cleanup. The 90% is relatively easy to get. The rest, not so much and that liability remains.

You would never get a developer to sign something like that. Ideally, it would be through the state's brownfield laws, but there's still a liability component that even the state isn't really interested releasing firms from, IIRC. GM, I think, is still on the hook for contamination released from their plant. There's certainly room for improvement in how we, in the northeast especially, transition from legacy industrial activities as a the core of our economy. I think it would take some combination of beefing up the state's superfund and releasing companies /developers from some liability, as well as really incentivizing redevelopment at a local level.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

so what are the possibilities it's a distribution center for Amazon or Walmart? For 1,000 new jobs I'm thinking it has to be one of the big players that is looking to be centrally located near the Thruway and 81.

Pretty sure it is Scannell who does the Amazon distribution centers. At least that is the case in the Capital District.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Pretty sure it is Scannell who does the Amazon distribution centers. At least that is the case in the Capital District.

Scannell is the developer in the link I posted on the previous page, the proposed site in Memphis that is almost equal in wants as this proposal in Clay.

I'm sure they're out there but I can't think of another corporation that would need that large of a facility. Target maybe?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Scannell is the developer in the link I posted on the previous page, the proposed site in Memphis that is almost equal in wants as this proposal in Clay.

I'm sure they're out there but I can't think of another corporation that would need that large of a facility. Target maybe?

Target already has a distribution center in Amsterdam. It can't be them.

 

[KellySyracuse]

alright, I'm out of guesses folks. I'm still leaning towards Amazon

 

[shandeezy7]

Target already has a distribution center in Amsterdam. It can't be them.

Amazon also has a distribution center in Lancaster just outside Buffalo, although they have multiple locations in other states in somewhat close proximity, so who knows.

List of Amazon locations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Fly Rodder]

alright, I'm out of guesses folks. I'm still leaning towards Amazon

3.7m SF is enormous and would dwarf all other Amazon facilities according to this link.

 

[shandeezy7]

3.7m SF is enormous and would dwarf all other Amazon facilities according to this link.

I'm not entirely sure of the accuracy of this link, but if true, this new proposed facility would be the second largest warehouse in the world? That...doesn't seem right.

Top 20 Largest Warehouses In The World

There are some truly huge commercial buildings in the world today, and if you’ve ever wondered what the largest warehouses look like - here are 20 of the biggest.

www.avantauk.com

 

[KellySyracuse]

I'm not entirely sure of the accuracy of this link, but if true, this new proposed facility would be the second largest warehouse in the world? That...doesn't seem right.

Top 20 Largest Warehouses In The World

There are some truly huge commercial buildings in the world today, and if you’ve ever wondered what the largest warehouses look like - here are 20 of the biggest.

www.avantauk.com

I think this is the key to why it's so large, they're building up and not out. Someone may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, I don't recall.

"County officials said the warehouse and distribution facility would have a footprint of 820,000 square feet and would rise four or five stories tall."

 

[bozophobe]

I hate driving my forklift into elevators with other forklift drivers. It's so awkward. We just sit there and stare at the buttons until we reach our respective floors.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I hate driving my forklift into elevators with other forklift drivers. It's so awkward. We just sit there and stare at the buttons until we reach our respective floors.

you first, no you first sir, no you first. What floor?

Actually I picture it as one giant vending machine. You have the automat on the one side taking product up to their respective cubes via robotics and product that has been purchased being dropped down chutes into boxes. Wouldn't that be wild

 

[Cheriehoop]

I hate driving my forklift into elevators with other forklift drivers. It's so awkward. We just sit there and stare at the buttons until we reach our respective floors.

I used to work as an accountant at Nestles which had multiple floors. Hated inventory when the forklift guys who hated the inventory process (they weren’t alone-lol ) and would cram material on the elevators then push another floor button to avoid tagging and inventorying stuff. It was a ‘catch me if you can’ game to them.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Distribution center near Liverpool would be 2nd biggest in world; is it Amazon?

Who would occupy the huge center hasn't been revealed, but some experts believe it's Amazon.

www.syracuse.com

Pretty sure it's Amazon. Hopefully the Nimby's in the burbs keep their mouths shut for once and let it happen.

 

[OttoMets]

Distribution center near Liverpool would be 2nd biggest in world; is it Amazon?

Who would occupy the huge center hasn't been revealed, but some experts believe it's Amazon.

www.syracuse.com

Pretty sure it's Amazon. Hopefully the Nimby's in the burbs keep their mouths shut for once and let it happen.

Unlike with the proposed bus garage on South Bay Road in Cicero. Don't know what's weirder about that, the site selection or the opposition.

 

[shandeezy7]

Distribution center near Liverpool would be 2nd biggest in world; is it Amazon?

Who would occupy the huge center hasn't been revealed, but some experts believe it's Amazon.

www.syracuse.com

Pretty sure it's Amazon. Hopefully the Nimby's in the burbs keep their mouths shut for once and let it happen.

There aren't really any residential NIMBY's to be had in the immediate area, aside from the apartment complexes adjacent to the site to the north. Of course, we know that doesn't matter with NIMBY's, as I'm sure there will be some resident of Clay that objects to this because a truck might force them to miss a green light sometime, adding 90 seconds to their commute to work.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It seems to me that the people in the burbs love to complain about everything when it comes to the local economy yet they are always against something that will improve the economy here.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It seems to me that the people in the burbs love to complain about everything when it comes to the local economy yet they are always against something that will improve the economy here.

Correct, thus the not in my backyard. They're all for something that's elsewhere.

I think most of the syracuse.com commenters are perpetually grouchy retirees living in FL.

Also much of that article is cribbed from this thread.

 

[KellySyracuse]

tomorrow should be interesting

 

[OttoMets]

tomorrow should be interesting

View attachment 169658

Probably a Democrat, since the comptroller's a real establishment partisan.

 

[shandeezy7]

Not surprisingly, a big nothing burger:

County official drove for Uber on work hours, comptroller claims; Czarny: He’s wrong

Responding to accusations from County Comptroller Matthew Beadnell, Elections Commissioner Dustin Czarny said he works many more hours for the county than he gets paid for.

www.syracuse.com