Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[shandeezy7]

Agree that Walton's pretty grubby, but I think that'd hurt. One place I could see it working is Marshall Street, it's really the only place in the region with that density and drawing power.

I guess I don't see how it could hurt it. The street is already essentially closed to traffic on weekend nights. There are maybe 15-20 legal parking spots on that block, if that, and most of those spaces are occupied either by employees of the bars/restaurants or residents of the apartments.

 

[OttoMets]

I guess I don't see how it could hurt it. The street is already essentially closed to traffic on weekend nights. There are maybe 15-20 legal parking spots on that block, if that, and most of those spaces are occupied either by employees of the bars/restaurants or residents of the apartments.

Never underestimate people's dislike for walking to a storefront they can't see from their parking space. I hear that complaint a lot.

Funny aside about the weekend night closures. It's a gang task force trick. They've been doing it on Marshall for a year or two as well. It's intended to reduce the number of places where someone can stash a gun and use it quickly.

 

[shandeezy7]

Never underestimate people's dislike for walking to a storefront they can't see from their parking space. I hear that complaint a lot.

Funny aside about the weekend night closures. It's a gang task force trick. They've been doing it on Marshall for a year or two as well. It's intended to reduce the number of places where someone can stash a gun and use it quickly.

The person that doesn't want to park anywhere but directly in front of the establishment they are going to is probably not shopping/eating downtown anyway. Creating a vibrant space for pedestrians can have way more benefit for the businesses on that street than preserving 15 parking spaces. It's been done elsewhere, on far more high-traffic streets than that one block of Walton. Heck, it's even been done in Syracuse with Clinton Square, and that was a much more highly-trafficked through street.

Interesting note on the street closure. Hadn't heard that before.

 

[Noexcuse]

The person that doesn't want to park anywhere but directly in front of the establishment they are going to is probably not shopping/eating downtown anyway. Creating a vibrant space for pedestrians can have way more benefit for the businesses on that street than preserving 15 parking spaces. It's been done elsewhere, on far more high-traffic streets than that one block of Walton. Heck, it's even been done in Syracuse with Clinton Square, and that was a much more highly-trafficked through street.

Interesting note on the street closure. Hadn't heard that before.

Hanover square as well.

 

[shandeezy7]

Hanover square as well.

Hanover Square is definitely underutilized, in my opinion. I remember one summer they had a block party series where they shut the square down, allowed alcohol to be consumed outside in the square and had a stage with a live band. It was well-attended and a really good time, but then it ended just as quickly as it began. I'm assuming there wasn't money to continue it. Not sure where those funds came from, but I think the stage was one of the City of Syracuse stages, so perhaps they provided the funding.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Hanover Square is definitely underutilized, in my opinion. I remember one summer they had a block party series where they shut the square down, allowed alcohol to be consumed outside in the square and had a stage with a live band. It was well-attended and a really good time, but then it ended just as quickly as it began. I'm assuming there wasn't money to continue it. Not sure where those funds came from, but I think the stage was one of the City of Syracuse stages, so perhaps they provided the funding.

I had some good times at those events, it had to be 7 or 8 years ago if I recall. I agree about Hanover being under utilized. Of all the places downtown to go have drinks it's probably my favorite.

 

[shandeezy7]

I had some good times at those events, it had to be 7 or 8 years ago if I recall. I agree about Hanover being under utilized. Of all the places downtown to go have drinks it's probably my favorite.

Yeah I think it was at least that long ago, if not longer. Evergreen is my favorite bar in Cuse. I love sitting on the sidewalk patio on a warm summer night.

 

[OttoMets]

Hanover Square is a good example of what to do and what not to do. The 200 block of East Genesee is a pedestrian street and has only vacant storefronts. The 100 block is where the action is, but it has low-speed one-way traffic and a parking lane. It's a curb-less street with bollards, basically an American version of a woonerf. It works pretty well for all users. I could see Walton being reconstructed like this. (I'd also like to see this for the 200 block of East Genesee someday, preferably with westbound one-way traffic.)

 

[shandeezy7]

Hanover Square is a good example of what to do and what not to do. The 200 block of East Genesee is a pedestrian street and has only vacant storefronts. The 100 block is where the action is, but it has low-speed one-way traffic and a parking lane. It's a curb-less street with bollards, basically an American version of a woonerf. It works pretty well for all users. I could see Walton being reconstructed like this. (I'd also like to see this for the 200 block of East Genesee someday, preferably with westbound one-way traffic.)

I don't know if that's totally an apples to oranges comparison though. The 100 block is mostly bars/restaurant, while the 200 block was always retail, as far as I know. Downtown retail in Syracuse, like most other mid-sized American cities, was decimated in the second half of the 20th century. I don't think that block being pedestrian only has had anything to do with the vacancy rates in the State Tower building, which needed a re-imagining for a long time.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't know if that's totally an apples to oranges comparison though. The 100 block is mostly bars/restaurant, while the 200 block was always retail, as far as I know. Downtown retail in Syracuse, like most other mid-sized American cities, was decimated in the second half of the 20th century. I don't think that block being pedestrian only has had anything to do with the vacancy rates in the State Tower building, which needed a re-imagining for a long time.

My understanding about that vacancy (remember, even the chronically mismanaged State Tower had 100% occupancy on the South Warren and East Water frontages) is related to two factors that both inhibited vibrancy: 1) the pedestrian block, and 2) the City property ("the Arby's addition" as some call it) facing it on the south side of the street. With Today's Special and Scottrade and the bank, I believe the previous owner was getting more or less market rent in the other storefronts, but he couldn't give the Genesee spaces away. The local AIA chapter took one of them for a few years at a big discount, but I don't remember any other tenants.

Pioneer is a much better steward of the property, we'll see if they have more success drawing tenants to the storefronts on the south side of the building.

 

[shandeezy7]

My understanding about that vacancy (remember, even the chronically mismanaged State Tower had 100% occupancy on the South Warren and East Water frontages) is related to two factors that both inhibited vibrancy: 1) the pedestrian block, and 2) the City property ("the Arby's addition" as some call it) facing it on the south side of the street. With Today's Special and Scottrade and the bank, I believe the previous owner was getting more or less market rent in the other storefronts, but he couldn't give the Genesee spaces away. The local AIA chapter took one of them for a few years at a big discount, but I don't remember any other tenants.

Pioneer is a much better steward of the property, we'll see if they have more success drawing tenants to the storefronts on the south side of the building.

The last time I walked by there, it did look like work was being done in one or two of the storefronts. I have fond memories of that area, because my grandmother used to take me to get shoes for school there every summer. The weird greenhouse addition off of the Granger building never made sense to be. One of the most unique buildings in Syracuse and you put that on there?

 

[bevosu]

A very nice collection of photos of many Syracuse buildings. Got to appreciate some of the style and architecture in northeastern cities. (photos are enhanced a bit)

Click on a photo and a pop up page will give some historical and style info about the building.

Syracuse ~ New York

 

[TexanMark]

Otto mentioned woonerf...I think that would be fabulous down in Armory Square.

It might just work for E. Genesee too.

What's A Woonerf? The Streetscape Design That's Sweeping DC

European street designs called woonerfs are being implemented in JBG's Eckington Yards and Hoffman Madison's The Wharf

www.bisnow.com

 

[bballbeadle]

Otto mentioned woonerf...I think that would be fabulous down in Armory Square.

It might just work for E. Genesee too.

What's A Woonerf? The Streetscape Design That's Sweeping DC

European street designs called woonerfs are being implemented in JBG's Eckington Yards and Hoffman Madison's The Wharf

www.bisnow.com

I really enjoyed looking at those pictures!

 

[OttoMets]

The last time I walked by there, it did look like work was being done in one or two of the storefronts. I have fond memories of that area, because my grandmother used to take me to get shoes for school there every summer. The weird greenhouse addition off of the Granger building never made sense to be. One of the most unique buildings in Syracuse and you put that on there?

There are permits in the window of the two State Tower storefronts closest to the Key Bank drive-through, and there's some sheetrock going up. I don't believe there are tenants in place, but they'll at least be ready to lease.

I don't think the Arby's addition is long for this world, but it had a good run!

 

[OttoMets]

Otto mentioned woonerf...I think that would be fabulous down in Armory Square.

It might just work for E. Genesee too.

What's A Woonerf? The Streetscape Design That's Sweeping DC

European street designs called woonerfs are being implemented in JBG's Eckington Yards and Hoffman Madison's The Wharf

www.bisnow.com

Plus it's fun to say (assuming I'm pronouncing it correctly)! D.C.'s done a good job integrating it in the projects in that link. Sometimes New York (outside of NYC) is more conservative than other places in introducing new transportation design features like this, but since a woonerf already exists in Hanover Square and actually works pretty well, even in snow and even for delivery drivers, I think we'll be able to do it again.

If property owners on Walton Street are cool with it, I think it could be great for all users.

 

[shandeezy7]

No surprise here, but it's now official:

It’s official: Amazon will move into enormous warehouse being built in Clay

The distribution center is expected to create 1,000 jobs

www.syracuse.com

 

[Moontan]

Plus it's fun to say (assuming I'm pronouncing it correctly)! D.C.'s done a good job integrating it in the projects in that link. Sometimes New York (outside of NYC) is more conservative than other places in introducing new transportation design features like this, but since a woonerf already exists in Hanover Square and actually works pretty well, even in snow and even for delivery drivers, I think we'll be able to do it again.

If property owners on Walton Street are cool with it, I think it could be great for all users.

It’s Dutch... “woahn-airf” is probably as close as you’ll get.*

* - native Dutchie here...

 

[pattycuse]

No surprise here, but it's now official:

It’s official: Amazon will move into enormous warehouse being built in Clay

The distribution center is expected to create 1,000 jobs

www.syracuse.com

I definitely think this is a good project for the area, especially since that corridor already has a number of distribution facilities in the immediate vicinity. I am curious- is there a track record of Amazon facilities triggering the type of ancillary growth that our local pols are claiming?

Hopefully Amazon worker conditions/pay continue to improve prior to this facility opening...

 

[OttoMets]

It’s Dutch... “woahn-airf” is probably as close as you’ll get.*

* - native Dutchie here...

That helps! Turns out I was wrong on both syllables, no small feat there.

 

[shandeezy7]

I definitely think this is a good project for the area, especially since that corridor already has a number of distribution facilities in the immediate vicinity. I am curious- is there a track record of Amazon facilities triggering the type of ancillary growth that our local pols are claiming?

Hopefully Amazon worker conditions/pay continue to improve prior to this facility opening...

This 2018 study from the Economic Policy Institute doesn't seem to back their claims:

Unfulfilled promises: Amazon fulfillment centers do not generate broad-based employment growth

What this report finds: When Amazon opens a new fulfillment center, the host county gains roughly 30 percent more warehousing and storage jobs but no new net jobs overall, as the jobs created in warehousing and storage are likely offset by job losses in other industries. Why it matters: State...

www.epi.org

 

[KellySyracuse]

Roger Misso has a scathing letter on Syracuse.com about the Amazon project and although I was for it I find most of his points hard to disagree with

Onondaga County is getting played by Jeff Bezos, Amazon (Commentary)

"Amazon makes more profit in a month than the entire annual county budget — yet county taxpayers are handing them a gift," writes former candidate for Congress.

www.syracuse.com

 

[OttoMets]

Roger Misso has a scathing letter on Syracuse.com about the Amazon project and although I was for it I find most of his points hard to disagree with

Onondaga County is getting played by Jeff Bezos, Amazon (Commentary)

"Amazon makes more profit in a month than the entire annual county budget — yet county taxpayers are handing them a gift," writes former candidate for Congress.

www.syracuse.com

Man, I don't know what lane he is looking to fill here, but I want to shake his hand and thank him for that letter. Solid. Not going to win him friends among the establishment Democrats who just sidelined him, but he told it like it is.

 

[rrlbees]

Man, I don't know what lane he is looking to fill here, but I want to shake his hand and thank him for that letter. Solid. Not going to win him friends among the establishment Democrats who just sidelined him, but he told it like it is.

Eh. Something is better than nothing. I forget what McMahon said but we’re still getting taxes. And republicans McMahon and Katko were sure taking victory laps yesterday.

 

[OttoMets]

Eh. Something is better than nothing. I forget what McMahon said but we’re still getting taxes. And republicans McMahon and Katko were sure taking victory laps yesterday.

I wonder. I'd like to see some numbers. Lot of externalities associated with Amazon's employment practices.