Diamond Stone | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Diamond Stone

Only one player in MLB has made the high school to the Show jump in the last 15 years and it was the inconsequential Mike Leake. I get your point, but other sports, maybe soccer or tennis might be better examples.

Mike Leake is actually the only player in that time to go directly from the DRAFT to MLB. Leake actually played three years at Arizona State prior to joining the Reds. It actually makes a better point!
 
Not sure which Mike Leake you are talking about. I'm an ASU baseball fan and the Mike Leake that I know pitched 3 seasons for ASU and was very successful at the college ranks. He was named PAC-10 pitcher of the year his Sophomore and Junior seasons and was named 1st team academic all-american his Junior year. Because of this success in college, he went from being drafted in the 7th round out of high school to being drafted 9th overall by the Reds after his Junior year.

Whoops... you beat me to it. Straight from the draft to the majors is a hell of an accomplishment though.
 
Only one player in MLB has made the high school to the Show jump in the last 15 years and it was the inconsequential Mike Leake. I get your point, but other sports, maybe soccer or tennis might be better examples.
What about all the Latin players? Ortiz, Pujols, Carlos Correa, Puig, Cabrera etc... no college
 
There are some professions where a degree is essential (medicine, law, internet trolling)

I don't think basketball is one though.
That is true, the skills and maturity that come from the experience of playing in college are not essential to be an NBA player. However, professional teams are so afraid of missing out on the future star, they draft underdeveloped players in the hopes they develop to their potential. This mindset has hurt the overall product in both the NBA and college. Can you imagine if teams drafted based on current skills? The draft would look much much different. If there is a rule put in place that kids have to play two or three years in college before entering the draft, I think a number of things will happen. The NBA will have more skilled players. The college game will improve as players will stick around long enough to be identified with a certain team. Also, unfortunately, there will probably be more issues with eligibility. But, perhaps more kids will enter college more focused on the education, knowing that they have to remain eligible for two to three years instead of one.
 
John Olerud and Dave Winfield went directly from the MLB Draft to the Majors as well.

It isn't easy but it has been done.
 
Melo Tremble is the perfect college basketball player he isn't good enough for the NBA so he has to stay in college or prove it elsewhere.

Tremble reminds of Scottie Reynolds but he isn't as good a shooter as Reynolds.

Stone was an obvious 1 and done. He was one of the few legit post presences in college basketball this year.
 
That is true, the skills and maturity that come from the experience of playing in college are not essential to be an NBA player. However, professional teams are so afraid of missing out on the future star, they draft underdeveloped players in the hopes they develop to their potential. This mindset has hurt the overall product in both the NBA and college. Can you imagine if teams drafted based on current skills? The draft would look much much different. If there is a rule put in place that kids have to play two or three years in college before entering the draft, I think a number of things will happen. The NBA will have more skilled players. The college game will improve as players will stick around long enough to be identified with a certain team. Also, unfortunately, there will probably be more issues with eligibility. But, perhaps more kids will enter college more focused on the education, knowing that they have to remain eligible for two to three years instead of one.

I don't mind a two year rule, but I don't have a lot of interest in saving the NBA from itself either. If they want to draft raw assets, thats a "them" problem.

I think the best solution is the continued dev ofnthe NBADL as a true "minor league.". Have kids with no interest in college go there instead.
 
Are you joking? Any job I've ever wanted requires at least a Bachelor's degree.

The difference is they aren't legislated by mandate. NBA jobs don't have that requirement. Starting your own business doesn't have that requirement. Working in many fields don't have that requirement. Some jobs may require it, some don't. I can guarantee you this, if the NBA put a 4-year requirement on college players, you still wouldn't stop the problem. These guys would just head to Europe for 2-3 years.
 
Besides a two year minimum, the single most important thing for CBB in my opinion is referees getting charge-block calls more consistent. Holy moly, it's not a game if you have no rules! CBB becomes championship wrestling when the referees muck it up.

View attachment 60497

How is this a block and not a charge? If the referees cannot get this call correct they should be kicked out of CBB period.

Because the way the rule is now written/applied, the defender must have established position before the player with the ball commits to leaving the floor. So, based on that photo alone, it's not possible to tell whether that happened.

Let me ask this. If it's so F-ing easy, why isn't everyone doing it?

Hint: it's not.
 
There are some professions where a degree is essential (medicine, law, internet trolling)

I don't think basketball is one though.

:rolling:
 
baseball is an imperfect comparison because the main battle (pitcher vs batter) is less physically dependent and more about adjustments ... it takes time to get used to the absolute difference in competition levels from HS to MLB. Even the most gifted and talented players need to see what a professional's breaking pitch looks like, or learn how to adjust pitch location so good pitches don't get hit a country mile, a few times before jumping up to the next level of competition. It's a gradual process and often takes several years.

But hundreds of baseball players go directly from HS to the minor leagues to learn how to be professional baseball players. They don't all have to go to college to do so. If basketball players want to learn how to be professional basketball players then they shouldn't have to go to college to do so either.
 
Because the way the rule is now written/applied, the defender must have established position before the player with the ball commits to leaving the floor. So, based on that photo alone, it's not possible to tell whether that happened.

Let me ask this. If it's so F-ing easy, why isn't everyone doing it?

Hint: it's not.

I think the charge/block call is one of the hardest to make in sports (you may have more insight on this)

Maybe allow coaches a certain number of "challenges"... Like in Pro football.
 
Gee, I wonder why no one's thought of that before [/end sarcasm].

The problem IMO is making the call at the speed the game is played.

Obviously reviewing tape is not going to fix that.
 
I think the charge/block call is one of the hardest to make in sports (you may have more insight on this)

Maybe allow coaches a certain number of "challenges"... Like in Pro football.

No two game sites will have the same camera angles or even equipment. It would be very expensive to make that happen. And even if they all did, none would always have the same angle as the game officials. So although it's not an unreasonable thought, I don't see it happening. Besides, smart coaches (and there are lots of them) would save their challenge for the end of close games, which are even now almost unwatchable because of how many trips to monitor are made during the last two minutes.

No one can get block/charge right every time. Period. It's a fact of life within the game. But what I can do is be consistent, and apply a consistent line of logic to how I handle a call. My basic philosophy is that basketball is an offensive game. So if I'm going to err, it's going to be on the side of protecting the shooter, especially one who's airborne. For if we allow defensive players to continually slide under players in the air based on being able to argue they had both feet on the floor a nanosecond before the shooter's foot left the floor, there will be many, and often career changing, injuries. So that can't be allowed to happen. On the other hand, you can't go too far with that because we've all seen players who are determined to go to the basket regardless of what's in front of them, and if you reward that practice, there will only be more and more of it, turning games into free-throw shooting contests.

At the end of it all, there will always be stronger and weaker officials at every level. And the best officials can't do every game every night. We just have to learn to accept it as part of the game.
 
The problem IMO is making the call at the speed the game is played.

Obviously reviewing tape is not going to fix that.

True enough. On most of the rules videos over the last several years (because yes, we actually DO watch them every year at clinics :)) the Triche/Ohio State charge is reviewed. And while I'm convinced it was a block because of all the criteria around LGP, there are many others who will intelligently argue the opposite. :noidea:
 
Not to be that guy but I am about to be. Is there a way to have a thread dedicated to non-Cuse players entering/leaving? Love the basketball talk but maybe it cleans the board a little bit?

By the way as the first post said. Once Skal left so was Diamond. No question.
 
Because the way the rule is now written/applied, the defender must have established position before the player with the ball commits to leaving the floor. So, based on that photo alone, it's not possible to tell whether that happened.

Let me ask this. If it's so F-ing easy, why isn't everyone doing it?

Hint: it's not.

This wasn't easy (and I didn't think Gbinije had legal guarding position at the time), but here's the kicker: the ref pointed to the circle, judging that this was a block because of where Gbinije was positioned.
 
What about all the Latin players? Ortiz, Pujols, Carlos Correa, Puig, Cabrera etc... no college

Yes, but I believe they all spent at least some time in the minor leagues and didn't go directly to the majors.
 
I think the charge/block call is one of the hardest to make in sports (you may have more insight on this)

Maybe allow coaches a certain number of "challenges"... Like in Pro football.

Their own establishment made it the clusterF it's today. Years ago, the block/charge debate, well, there really wasn't much debate at all. Why, because it was darn obvious what a charge was back then, as well as a block. The reffing institution unnecessarily toyed with it and toyed with it and is the proximate cause of what it is today. It bred the flopping along with all the acting and BS that ensues in an exaggerated attempt to persuade/fool the ref to call the block.
 
No two game sites will have the same camera angles or even equipment. It would be very expensive to make that happen. And even if they all did, none would always have the same angle as the game officials. So although it's not an unreasonable thought, I don't see it happening. Besides, smart coaches (and there are lots of them) would save their challenge for the end of close games, which are even now almost unwatchable because of how many trips to monitor are made during the last two minutes.

No one can get block/charge right every time. Period. It's a fact of life within the game. But what I can do is be consistent, and apply a consistent line of logic to how I handle a call. My basic philosophy is that basketball is an offensive game. So if I'm going to err, it's going to be on the side of protecting the shooter, especially one who's airborne. For if we allow defensive players to continually slide under players in the air based on being able to argue they had both feet on the floor a nanosecond before the shooter's foot left the floor, there will be many, and often career changing, injuries. So that can't be allowed to happen. On the other hand, you can't go too far with that because we've all seen players who are determined to go to the basket regardless of what's in front of them, and if you reward that practice, there will only be more and more of it, turning games into free-throw shooting contests.

At the end of it all, there will always be stronger and weaker officials at every level. And the best officials can't do every game every night. We just have to learn to accept it as part of the game.

Yeah I don't know the answer... Besides the fact test is more complex than "just call it better. That's what if do!"
 
Not sure which Mike Leake you are talking about. I'm an ASU baseball fan and the Mike Leake that I know pitched 3 seasons for ASU and was very successful at the college ranks. He was named PAC-10 pitcher of the year his Sophomore and Junior seasons and was named 1st team academic all-american his Junior year. Because of this success in college, he went from being drafted in the 7th round out of high school to being drafted 9th overall by the Reds after his Junior year.

I messed up on Leake. He went directly from school to the majors, just not high school. I was right in that he didn't spend any time in the minors, which is what I was going for.
 
Their own establishment made it the clusterF it's today. Years ago, the block/charge debate, well, there really wasn't much debate at all. Why, because it was darn obvious what a charge was back then, as well as a block. The reffing institution unnecessarily toyed with it and toyed with it and is the proximate cause of what it is today. It bred the flopping along with all the acting and BS that ensues in an exaggerated attempt to persuade/fool the ref to call the block.

Picture of a meeting of the "Reffing institution"

download.jpg
 
Yes, but I believe they all spent at least some time in the minor leagues and didn't go directly to the majors.
Got it - I thought you meant time in college only. Andrew Miller went straight from UNC to the MLB I believe, at least within a couple months.
 

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