Did anyone notice that we have 10 conference wins?

[orangecuse]

While his defense tends to be overrated in general (I'm looking at you, Jay Bilas), Howard was a better defender last year. He could get by some people last year. Was always good for a shot or two from the elbow and could hit that floating runner. Protected the ball better.

He's struggling physically and mentally this season.

I agree with you about his D, on some people, and a shot or two on the running floater. I honestly don't recall that many elbow shots of his, so I'm neutral on that one. Protecting the ball better, imo, same as last year. I would agree he's struggling mentally, physically, IDK, since he stated himself he was 100% back in late December, and JB commented too that his physical health was fine.

 

[orangecuse]

Same people that consider last year a success because we made the sweet 16 despite the season being completely miserable.

I get it, those 3 wins in the tourney were great, especially beating a high seed and heavily favored MSU in Detroit. No doubt many (myself included) focused on that and how we had everyone coming back from last year's run. So, with that, and anticipating the typical type improvement one might expect from year to year, along with a couple highly regarded guys coming in, falling for the lofty expectations was easy. The media bought in too as I think we were preseason #14.

JB coming out after that UB loss in his presser and saying about 5 or 6 times that this team is the SAME team that lost 14 games last year has affect for sure. And, he also stated in that same presser, for anyone willing to listen, that they were a WIDE open corner jump shot from ASU's best shooter at game's end from going home right then and there. I imagine, with us being literally - the last team in - if he did hit that shot, many of us probably may have had different, if not more realistic type expectations.

 

[Day2]

I agree with you about his D, on some people, and a shot or two on the running floater. I honestly don't recall that many elbow shots of his, so I'm neutral on that one. Protecting the ball better, imo, same as last year. I would agree he's struggling mentally, physically, IDK, since he stated himself he was 100% back in late December, and JB commented too that his physical health was fine.

JB says a lot of things. I think Howard was trying to express some optimism and confidence.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Was he? A 5th year grad transfer brought in to be "behind" our guards? I don't believe that was the case in regards to the PG spot, you'll not get any argument from me in relation to Battle. The PG spot for that season was a big question mark. Frank was a 2G at the prep level, and only played limited action his frosh season. I think Gillon was brought in to see who would win that spot as it was there for the taking. Gillon ultimately won out...isn't that in part why Frank was so allegedly distraught, messing with team camaraderie, recruit visits, etc. to the point where several here were sure he was transferring out after that season?

Last year we brought in another 5th year guard to battle for that position in Geno Thorpe. Many were pretty high on him based on his senior year scoring averages etc. at USF. However, he hurt his ankle in the preseason and then had a falling out with the coach. Afterwards, we were left with only Frank to really run the point.

I'm not making any statement here as fact, it's just my assessment/viewpoint. Maybe, this isn't correct at all.

You’re mostly right, but I believe the plan was always for Frank to start off with the starting PG job since he had already been in the program for a year, and was also better fit for the zone. I quickly glanced at the game logs from that year and Frank was getting more minutes in non conference. Though I’m sure JB did tell Gillon before he arrived that the starting job could be his if he outplayed Frank. And obviously we saw that ended up happening.

 

[Day2]

You’re mostly right, but I believe the plan was always for Frank to start off with the starting PG job since he had already been in the program for a year, and was also better fit for the zone. I quickly glanced at the game logs from that year and Frank was getting more minutes in non conference. Though I’m sure JB did tell Gillon before he arrived that the starting job could be his if he outplayed Frank. And obviously we saw that ended up happening.

Yeah, Gillon was originally viewed as a Vinnie “Microwave” Johnson-type off the bench, with the potential to serve as a closer. And obviously he was an insurance policy if things didn’t work out with Howard.

 

[SWC75]

10 Conference wins doesn’t mean much.
We were 8-10 last year and made the tournament.
It’s who you play and beat.
We went 10-6 in 2007 and didn’t make the tournament. However we had a great draw that year and the committee screwed us.
We got a great draw this year.
We swept BC and Pitt, split with Duke and got 9th seed Clemson as our 4th h/h.

Of the top 5 teams in the ACC standing we went 1-5.
Against teams 6-9 we are 2-1
Against teams 10-15 we are 7-1.

So we are textbook medicore.
We are losing to the good teams and beating the bad teams.
We are going to make the tournament without sweating it out with 1 more win. That is more good than being 10-7.

if 8-10 puts us in the tournament, 10 wins is pretty good.

 

[Dcuse]

Down year for the ACC

The ACC may end up having 3 times as many 1 seeds as another power 5 conference has TEAMS in the tournament.
Down year. I love this board.

 

[Brooky03]

The ACC may end up having 3 times as many 1 seeds as another power 5 conference has TEAMS in the tournament.
Down year. I love this board.

Top heavy. The bottom is horrendous. The middle is not good

 

[Jasoncuse]

frank averaged 14 ppg last year. while he certainly had his struggles and drove us nuts he was still a productive player. this year he has trouble completing a simple pass.hes had a god awful year.

Frank shot 37% from the field, 32% from 3 and turned it over almost 4x per game last year. He wasn’t efficient or good, he was a compiler because we literally had no one else.

I don’t know where this revisionist history about Frank ever being a good player is coming from. He’s had his moments but overall his play and inabilities have been a major reason we’ve been a middle of the pack ACC team. He’s a marginal player that’s played too many minutes at a position he should’ve never been shoehorned into.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Back in December, the board was convinced that we'd finish with an overall losing record.

Back in December, the board reacted to the quality of play we were exhibiting.
Before that, though, check the Iggy predictions. There was a lot of optimism and high expectations, even from some of us who subsequently were disappointed.

So, what's your point? 10 conference wins, with the bulk against the bottom of the conference. What does that tell you about who we are?

 

[Jasoncuse]

This is about you ignoring our success in order to fit your narrative. Your big picture continues to be incomplete.

As has been pointed out by others, most judge programs by decades. We’ve had a great decade overall. Only members of the Cherry Picker Club can state otherwise.

I’m not ignoring our success. I’n Just not informing all our issues. Our success consists of a handful of games while our issues have been season long.

Dude, the big picture includes everything. Our constant 13-14 loss seasons indicate where this program is more than a FF and a sweet 16 do.

How can you judge a program by decades? Sure, it’s a clean way to make comparisons but hardly indicative of the status of a program at either end of your timeframe. You can talk about sustained success if it lasts that long but what about anything less? Guys from 2009 have absolutely nothing to do with our current team. The 6OT team really should not be lumped into the current mess in any way. The first half of your decade timeframe are completely different and unrelated to the last half.

Do you really believe this program is nearly as strong, competitive or relevant as it was 7-10 years ago? This five year stretch is the worst in the JB era, even with a FF mixed in. It’s been rough.

 

[orangecuse]

Back in December, the board reacted to the quality of play we were exhibiting.
Before that, though, check the Iggy predictions. There was a lot of optimism and high expectations, even from some of us who subsequently were disappointed.

So, what's your point? 10 conference wins, with the bulk against the bottom of the conference. What does that tell you about who we are?

Beyond the wins, several of our losses have been flat out ugly. We lost to GT by 16 at home. FSU by 18, where 10 minutes into the game we were down like 29-9! Smoked by UVA the other night, hammered by 20 against VPI and a similar defeat by NCST.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We have a chance to finish 11-7.

Which would be our 2nd best ACC record ever (and our best during the sanctions).

How many of you people thought two months ago that we'd finish sub .500?

We still need 1 more to be safe.

I said we needed 11 wins in the ACC after the pre-conference schedule, and we ain't there yet.

 

[Jzsshuttles]

Same people that consider last year a success because we made the sweet 16 despite the season being completely miserable.

You do realize there was 7 healthy scholarship players last year and almost all of them were unknowns. Tyus was the only guy we knew could play at a high level. Modern miracle they did what they did. Boeheim was brilliant and the guys played their hearts out. Any fan of the program that can’t appreciate last year should do some re-evaluating and maybe start rooting for duke or kentucky.

 

[chugg21]

You do realize there was 7 healthy scholarship players last year and almost all of them were unknowns. Tyus was the only guy we knew could play at a high level. Modern miracle they did what they did. Boeheim was brilliant and the guys played their hearts out. Any fan of the program that can’t appreciate last year should do some re-evaluating and maybe start rooting for duke or kentucky.

I do root for a program that is on that level resource wise. Thats why double digit losses 5 straight years makes everyone start to freak out. Not trying to give out participation trophies.

 

[Day2]

I’m not ignoring our success. I’n Just not informing all our issues. Our success consists of a handful of games while our issues have been season long.

Dude, the big picture includes everything. Our constant 13-14 loss seasons indicate where this program is more than a FF and a sweet 16 do.

How can you judge a program by decades? Sure, it’s a clean way to make comparisons but hardly indicative of the status of a program at either end of your timeframe. You can talk about sustained success if it lasts that long but what about anything less? Guys from 2009 have absolutely nothing to do with our current team. The 6OT team really should not be lumped into the current mess in any way. The first half of your decade timeframe are completely different and unrelated to the last half.

Do you really believe this program is nearly as strong, competitive or relevant as it was 7-10 years ago? This five year stretch is the worst in the JB era, even with a FF mixed in. It’s been rough.

These are your words:

I guess I look at the big picture instead of two great runs. One happened when we were in the Big East, one was a major surprise as a 10. Outside of that 4 game-run...

If you're counting a FF run 7 seasons ago...

Not ignoring our success, huh? Your argument is, "Take away the highs and focus on everything else." My argument is, "All things considered, this has been a great decade." You won't see me using any language about ignoring anything that's happened, good or bad. Your entire premise depends on it.

How can I judge a program by decades? Because that's how it's done. And not just in sports. I Love the '80s. That '70s Show. More importantly, you don't seem to understand what a decade actually represents. 2009 wasn't this decade, it was last decade.

All things considered, we've been one of the better teams this decade. A media outlet devised a point scale and analyzed every program. Syracuse ranked 10th. That's taking everything into account.

 

[Day2]

I do root for a program that is on that level resource wise. Thats why double digit losses 5 straight years makes everyone start to freak out. Not trying to give out participation trophies.

Participation trophies are for the one game and done teams. We won three games in the tournament last year.

ASU and TCU got participation trophies. We knocked off Michigan State.

 

[Day2]

Top heavy. The bottom is horrendous. The middle is not good

Four of the five teams in the middle are probably getting into the tournament.

 

[CousCuse]

The middle is not good? The middle of the conference teams have to play 4 or 5 games against 3 top 5 teams who are the conference power brokers and get all the benefits of any doubts in all matters.

 

[Brooky03]

Four of the five teams in the middle are probably getting into the tournament.

Yes. Still not good

 

[Day2]

Yes. Still not good

If getting into the tournament isn’t good, maybe you’re watching the wrong sport.

 

[chugg21]

Participation trophies are for the one game and done teams. We won three games in the tournament last year.

ASU and TCU got participation trophies. We knocked off Michigan State.

Yeah and we lost 13 games. And this year we got beat up by UB and Old Dominion at home. Get this crap outta here. 2 weeks doesn't make up for 4 months of struggles. Just go look at the damn AP poll, we are top 10 in resources and aren't even getting a single vote in the top 25. Haven't finished the reg season in the top 25 in 5 years now. We squeak in as literally the last team into the tourney and managed to flummox a couple teams in the tourney that don't see the zone and now the season is a big success. Congrats on lowering your standards.

 

[chugg21]

If getting into the tournament isn’t good, maybe you’re watching the wrong sport.

I'm not trying to be happy by being one of the top 68 teams in the country.

 

[Brooky03]

If getting into the tournament isn’t good, maybe you’re watching the wrong sport.

I'm saying the teams aren't good. Getting in the tournament is nice. Not all college basketball seasons are created equal.

 

[chugg21]

I'm saying the teams aren't good. Getting in the tournament is nice. Not all college basketball seasons are created equal.

You need to be happy to get into the tournament like we're Northwestern or something.