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[sufandu]

The argument continues because it is not resolvable.

Coach Mac left a full cupboard for Coach P.
Coach P did not squander that full cupboard, going 10-2 and 10-2.

Coach P oversaw a period of time where Syracuse was nationally relevant.
Coach P oversaw a period of time where Syracuse began losing national relevance.

Coach P lost some games we should have won (i.e. losing to Temple in 2004).
Coach P won some games that we expected to lose (i.e. beating BC in 2004)

In the end, however, there were a lot of blowouts and inexcusable upset losses, which coming off the 1987-1998 period, were just unacceptable.
In the end, however, firing Coach P in January was a stupid stupid decision that was worse than just keeping him for one more year.

No argument. Nothing either of us said contradicts the other. It's all accurate.

 

[tep624]

Lol

In all honesty wasnt intended to be a Pro P anti P post. I'm in the camp that he overachieved with the finances and support he had, yet underachieved with the talent he had.

I'm just amazed that the program still hasn't eclipsed his win total two decades later.

You can tell how much we’ve struggled for success post P if we literally still have pro and anti P camps 20 years later lol.

 

[Oakland]

Lol

In all honesty wasnt intended to be a Pro P anti P post. I'm in the camp that he overachieved with the finances and support he had, yet underachieved with the talent he had.

I'm just amazed that the program still hasn't eclipsed his win total two decades later.

My local HS had field turf before SU did.

 

[anomander]

Look I'm thankful for the job he did but for context only 5 of his seasons did his SOS exceed that of Fran's this year ... only 5 of 14. The fact is after riding the coat tails of what Mac left behind when he beat OSU and Colorado in major bowls other than beating Clemson he was shredded in major bowl games (KSU, UF) and the program was on a slow downward spiral under his leadership. After McNabb left and took his superhuman abilities with him other than 2001 he was a relatively poor recruiter and he subjected the fanbase to some awful losses like Georgia Tech.

Agreed. Considering the talent and competition he severely underperformed. I said it all the time during his tenure. Seemed we were never prepared to start the season either.

 

[sufandu]

Agreed. Considering the talent and competition he severely underperformed. I said it all the time during his tenure. Seemed we were never prepared to start the season either.

It was inconsistent. In 1991 we had a great start and had things cooking right up until FSU worked us over. Then we had the head scratching loss to ECU the next week. Maybe that was a hangover from the previous week. 1992 we started well again until OSU exposed us. That was frustrating because we had just beaten them in the bowl game the previous year and had pretty much our whole team back. I remember that loss initiated some adjustments to put more size on the d line that helped us the rest of the year. Fast forward to the McNabb years and we start 1995 with an upset of UNC only to drop the next one to a decent ECU team that was never ranked that year. 1996 was a crappy start. 1997 we open with the big win over Wisconsin then drop 3 in a row including losses to a meh NC State and a crappy Oklahoma. Even though we lost the frst one in 1998 I can't say we weren't prepared. We played well enough to win and refs stole that with the BS equipment violation calls. But the we dropped one to another meh NC State.

The McNabb years just never seemed to live up to their potential and somehow didn't reach the heights of '91-92.

 

[OrangePA]

That's an exaggeration. He had 3 consecutive winning seasons and won 7 games in 85 before P got there. That was the first time the program did that since 1968. And all of the players that were on the '87 team were recruited prior to P's arrival. D was there eariier, but if we're going to give him credit for Mac's success, don't we also have to assign him some blame for 1986. It takes a while to rebuild after prolonged lack of success. Hiring good assistants is part of the head coach's job. Do we not give Mac credit for hiring P and D? Were those guys thrust upon him?

Why does it have to be ether/or? Can't we say that P and D were integral pieces of a program Mac was in charge of?

Coach Mac had a very difficult time establishing a competent offense - until DeLeone came on board.

It was DeLeone who installed the "pro-option" offense - a unique option offense that threw the ball 20-25 times per game. It was DeLeone who developed McPherson at QB.

P brought organization skills, attention to detail and a defensive approach that had an obvious impact on the Program.

That is why he was named the HC after Mac bolted for New England.

Jake understood full well P's skill set.

The Program took another step up with P and D.

The notion that they inherited their success - for the next ten years - is nonsense.

And yet, the way you have described what occurred is accurate - P and D were integral pieces of a program that Mac ran.

 

[sufandu]

Coach Mac had a very difficult time establishing a competent offense - until DeLeone came on board.

It was DeLeone who installed the "pro-option" offense - a unique option offense that threw the ball 20-25 times per game. It was DeLeone who developed McPherson at QB.

P brought organization skills, attention to detail and a defensive approach that had an obvious impact on the Program.

That is why he was named the HC after Mac bolted for New England.

Jake understood full well P's skill set.

The Program took another step up with P and D.

The notion that they inherited their success - for the next ten years - is nonsense.

And yet, the way you have described what occurred is accurate - P and D were integral pieces of a program that Mac ran.

Yep. Mac made some great hires as he continued to ressurect the program.