Dino's Signing Day Presser

[qdawgg]

You just love looking for a good argument eh?

It’s funny when Shafer was winning more games and the team looked just as terrible he had to be helped away from the ledge. I don’t remember how many tantrums he threw on here about getting rid of Shafer. Now everything is just dandy and don’t even dare ask questions of a staff that has 4 losing seasons out of 5 because you clearly don’t know anything.

 

[qdawgg]

A BIG part of it is - Syracuse fans don't pay for the pay recruiting sites.
So, our recruits tend to be underrated, compared to schools who have a large following on those.

Also - for whatever reason SUNJ has TWO shills who are "higher-ups" at a certain site, and they consistently OVERrate Rutty's croots, and downgrade ours.
Which then gets carried into the composite rankings that other sites use.

The best gauge of our recruiting is:
Who are their other offers? Are we beating out peer P5's for these kids?
What about player height/weight/speed - are they taller, bigger, and faster than prior?
How are the performing when they get here?

ALL of these have been trending in the right direction the past few classes, including this one.

We had 1 win last season and 4 losing seasons out of 5. Our recruiting ranks right with our record. Our recruits aren’t underrated and when they are it’s the exception not the rule.

 

[UD1954]

Ward's defense recruiting and Kirk's lack of QB recruiting set the program back a couple of years growth wise...with quality coaches leading the charge I expect a uptick in recruiting. We couldn't win a QB recruiting battle for 2 years with Kirk and have gotten 3 since Gilbert replaced him. Ward was a poor recruiter for a DC and we'll see a big improvement with White as DC...

 

[JRHEETER]

A BIG part of it is - Syracuse fans don't pay for the pay recruiting sites.
So, our recruits tend to be underrated, compared to schools who have a large following on those.

Also - for whatever reason SUNJ has TWO shills who are "higher-ups" at a certain site, and they consistently OVERrate Rutty's croots, and downgrade ours.
Which then gets carried into the composite rankings that other sites use.

The best gauge of our recruiting is:
Who are their other offers? Are we beating out peer P5's for these kids?
What about player height/weight/speed - are they taller, bigger, and faster than prior?
How are the performing when they get here?

ALL of these have been trending in the right direction the past few classes, including this one.

Oh trust me, I don’t disagree that the rankings aren’t fully accurate. But they aren’t wildly off either. And I agree that at the current time we need to really develop our players.

however, if we had been consistently good...we would be seeing an uptick in recruiting rankings.

 

[Cusefan69]

Folks we are also evaluating an incomplete class right now. Let's see what happens with our other slots. We have up to 5 more I believe. Plenty more room at the inn.

 

[GoSU96]

By all means, though, let's dump our coaches and hire a new gang, with a contract stipulation that if you don't finish in position X or above within the ACC's recruiting classes, according to the Oracle at 247, YOU'RE TOAST. One year! Get out of town! 9th in the ACC? Worthless!

(But weren't some saying that Dino fired the coaches he did, last year, to get better recruiters? Guessing that some posters weren't around for that talk.)

There also has to be the Pound the Portal clause

 

[JeremyCuse]

Syracuse is one of the hardest recruiting sells in P5. Out of the way location (4 hours from NYC and Philly and 5 hours from Boston doesn't make it close to them), no local talent, weather, lack of consistent success in current high schoolers lifetimes.

For Syracuse to out recruit half the P5 would take a coaching staff that no one knows about (and is therefore in Cuse's price range) who can recruit their brains out and an army of bagmen Cuse has never had.

It's possible but you would need an elite recruiter as HC and deal with the trade off that said coach probably is lacking in some non recruiting areas. Ed Orgeron could do it here, I believe that 100% and he was the guy I wanted when we let Shafer go. However, Orgeron is also not the bext Xs and Os guy obviously so you would have to rely on the coordinators and understand that he's not a 5 year coach em up development guy.

 

[GoSU96]

Don’t ask about things improving. SU will always suck, the best coach we can hope for is one that has one winning season out of 5. We’ll never do better than that, we’ll never recruit better. Just accept that we’re headed toward improvement, you don’t need evidence of that, so stop asking. Don’t forget, those posters are right and you’re wrong. So don’t ask questions. Don’t provide facts, facts don’t matter. Welcome to 2020.

Yeah, that's exactly what's going on here.

Yeesh, if that strawman caught fire it would a five alarmer.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

It's possible but you would need an elite recruiter as HC and deal with the trade off that said coach probably is lacking in some non recruiting areas. Ed Orgeron could do it here, I believe that 100% and he was the guy I wanted when we let Shafer go. However, Orgeron is also not the bext Xs and Os guy obviously so you would have to rely on the coordinators and understand that he's not a 5 year coach em up development guy.

Which goes back to my point that we likely can't afford such an arrangement.

 

[javadoc]

Oh trust me, I don’t disagree that the rankings aren’t fully accurate. But they aren’t wildly off either. And I agree that at the current time we need to really develop our players.

however, if we had been consistently good...we would be seeing an uptick in recruiting rankings.

How far do they need to be off to account for differences in positions 8-14 within the ACC?

 

[JeremyCuse]

This class looks similar to the other classes under Babers and similar what were used to post P for the most part. I'd say its a step above most of those classes when you look at some of the offers and potential ie the WR's, Geer, Hough, Chestnut and several OL with legit offers and a few others. Is it enough to get the team back to that 7-9 win range we all want to be at, maybe. Lamson will obviously be key, he doesn't have to be Mcnabb but we or more realistically Babers can't afford another miss. Devito coming back next year will help and I assume SU will also hit the portal for 2-3 guys as well.

As for the back and forth on here, most of it is to be expected. People are frustrated and there does seem to be a bit of revisionist history going on with Babers and where we would be at this point but in the end next season will likely prove decisive on whether Dino is leading us or not. Again the current class seems fairly good and there are a lot less diamond in the rough and project types which is nice. Would have like to have kept the Wisky kid but decommits happen. Going to be important to try and land a few game ready guys via transfer or juco or whatever between now and the official signing day in February.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Which goes back to my point that we likely can't afford such an arrangement.

Oh we could have afforded Orgeron, he wanted the job, SU wasn't interested.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Oh we could have afforded Orgeron, he wanted the job, SU wasn't interested.

I love Ed but he would have needed a much better staff than Syracuse could afford to be succesful here

 

[HSPORANGE]

Oh we could have afforded Orgeron, he wanted the job, SU wasn't interested.

He was desperate for any head coaching gig at the time. People liked to link him to SU because his previous time as an assistant here. Say he came and had 2 winning seasons in a row, do you think he stays at Syracuse when a southern school from a P5 conference comes calling?

 

[JeremyCuse]

I love Ed but he would have needed a much better staff than Syracuse could afford to be succesful here

Probably but I would have loved to see what he would have done here. Unlikely he woudl still be here if he had a good amount of success but I think he had the ability to recruit here that no previous HC had had save for maybe P in the heyday of the early 90s.

 

[JeremyCuse]

He was desperate for any head coaching gig at the time. People liked to link him to SU because his previous time as an assistant here. Say he came and had 2 winning seasons in a row, do you think he stays at Syracuse when a southern school from a P5 conference comes calling?

Of course he wouldn't have stayed unless the buyout was just massive but that's not what were talking about.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It’s funny when Shafer was winning more games and the team looked just as terrible he had to be helped away from the ledge. I don’t remember how many tantrums he threw on here about getting rid of Shafer. Now everything is just dandy and don’t even dare ask questions of a staff that has 4 losing seasons out of 5 because you clearly don’t know anything.

Please, I must have missed Shafer winning 10 games in a season and his contract extension with huge buyout during a pandemic. That does play into this. I have also stated at nauseum that I like Dino a lot and feel that he represents the University with a ton of class. Not the end all be all by any means but he's not screaming FU across the field at Dabo or even after he leaves won't be smoking cigars in the middle of the dome after a win if he ever returned to coach against Syracuse, that much I know for sure. Shafer was a loose cannon and always will be. He was way over his head as a head coach and would be at any D1 level and that was clear

I am sure I had some rants against Shafer, he certainly wasn't my favorite Syracuse head coach by any means. I thought he had a really low ceiling and he proved that he did in his 3 years. His first year was his ceiling. Dino's is much higher. 10 wins

I am also tired of playing musical chairs with head coaches at this point and Dino had the best season here in 20 years, that means something to me. I am willing to ride it out

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Oh we could have afforded Orgeron, he wanted the job, SU wasn't interested.

I meant having both a recruiter and experienced coaches on both sides of the ball who carry a workable offensive/defensive identity to compensate. I swear this was a good point.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I meant having both a recruiter and experienced coaches on both sides of the ball who carry a workable offensive/defensive identity to compensate. I swear this was a good point.

Ya its unlikely can afford a coach who has both attributes or a HC that's simply an elite recruiter and then a good to great OC and DC. Going to have to pick our poison so to speak.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Probably but I would have loved to see what he would have done here. Unlikely he woudl still be here if he had a good amount of success but I think he had the ability to recruit here that no previous HC had had save for maybe P in the heyday of the early 90s.

He would have been the true litmus test for recruiting because if he couldn't recruit at Syracuse then nobody could. without any doubt.

 

[Modern Coac]

Syracuse is one of the hardest recruiting sells in P5. Out of the way location (4 hours from NYC and Philly and 5 hours from Boston doesn't make it close to them), no local talent, weather, lack of consistent success in current high schoolers lifetimes.

For Syracuse to out recruit half the P5 would take a coaching staff that no one knows about (and is therefore in Cuse's price range) who can recruit their brains out and an army of bagmen Cuse has never had.

Disagree. Now I am only using Nick Saban to make a point. Nothing more. Are you telling me Nick Saban would not bring in a Top 35 class here? He would bring in a LOT higher class than that. Yes, I am exaggerating the potential HC to make a point. It is possible.

The perfect candidate. First, a good recruiter. A guy with Northern roots...but one who coached and had recruiting contacts in the SEC.

 

[JRHEETER]

He would have been the true litmus test for recruiting because if he couldn't recruit at Syracuse then nobody could. without any doubt.

Bring em in!!!

 

[syrBossHogg]

 

[syrBossHogg]

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Disagree. Now I am only using Nick Saban to make a point. Nothing more. Are you telling me Nick Saban would not bring in a Top 35 class here? He would bring in a LOT higher class than that. Yes, I am exaggerating the potential HC to make a point. It is possible.

The perfect candidate. First, a good recruiter. A guy with Northern roots...but one who coached and had recruitingcontacts in the SEC.

You don't realize / acknowledge the barriers Syracuse is up against. I'm not a particularly negative person, but this is one time I'll straight up say you're not being realistic.

1) Syracuse isn't going to convince multiple players from the Southeast with numerous and committable offers to SEC schools to come to an area they've likely never been to. As much as Cuse fans like to think it is, Syracuse is not a national brand, especially for football.
2) Syracuse doesn't have the cash to be a major player in the recruiting game. Whether that's facilities, recruiting support staff, paying assistants who can recruit, paying recruits themselves - Cuse doesn't have the resources.
3) A coach with Northern roots who has recruiting ties in the South - who cares? That's good for a class or two of players at the onset - and is maybe a blue chipper or two. Once the team starts playing, no matter how good they are - that's not sustainable.
4) Look at how Les Miles is doing at Kansas.