DO article on NJ recruiting

[orangefog]

I bet it has much more to do with Rutgers and their fear of SU gaining ground in what they consider ‘their‘ territory.

Totally, the fear has brought Fran Brown to tears.

 

[tep624]

Seems like a lot of people read the first 3 paragraphs about Raines but maybe nothing else. Or some may have just read the headline. He's only a small part of the whole article.

There are some things in there that should be concerning, but perhaps we are fixing with Monroe now engaged in the state.

My sense is that the article paints things as worse than they really are, but that things could be much better than they are. Like most articles, the answer likely lies in the middle.

That’s the problem. I think there’s a real story here specifically about Dino not personally meeting with prominent NE HS coaches who have been on the job for years. But it’s overshadowed by a lead in with one-sided subjective reporting about a kid that is supposed to be a specific example of SU dropping the ball.

 

[Chip]

That’s the problem. I think there’s a real story here specifically about Dino not personally meeting with prominent NE HS coaches who have been on the job for years. But it’s overshadowed by a lead in with one-sided subjective reporting about a kid that is supposed to be a specific example of SU dropping the ball.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have used it as the lead in. It's the kind of thing that turns people off to the article instantly.

Really odd that Dino has never met Duce or Allen's head coaches. According to them anyway.

 

[SUDadx2]

'SYRACUSE NEVER CAME': Inside the Orange’s recruiting missteps in New Jersey

Damning if accurate

Not really.

1 - In 2021 we signed two receivers who were rated higher than Raynes (3 star, 0.8410).

• Hatcher, 3 star, 0.8573
• Gadsden, 3 star, 0.8526

2 - We aren't doing too bad in New Jersey. We can always do better, but...

• Duce Chestnut, Freshman All-American at Syracuse
• Clark, DB transfer from Rutgers. Looks promising
• Allen, RB. 2021 New Jersey Gatorade High School Player of the Year
• Lowery, LB. Solid player ready to contribute more. Rs Fr in 2022

3 - Are we hitting New Jersey hard?

• In 2022, Syracuse only "offered" more players from Florida than they did from New Jersey.
• For 2023, New Jersey is running second to Florida again.

4 - There are couple of studs in the 2023 class in New Jersey.

• Chace Bisontis, OT, #1 prospect. Offered
• Adon Shuler, S, #2 prospect. Offered.
• Sydir Mitchell, DT, #3 prospect. Offered.
• Syracuse has offered 8 of the top 11 prospects in New Jersey.

5 - Coach Monroe has been assigned to the New Jersey territory. We will do better in New Jersey.

 

[money3189]

And I would add this is well:

Raines was offered by Virginia on May 29th, which means he camped at SU in late May.

We already had a commit at WR from Kendall Long, and we had offered future commits Oronde Gadsden II on April 11 and Umari Hatcher on Feb 27. Both of them graded higher at 2-4-7 than Raines and both were offered before Raines. And both had better offers than Raines.

Isn’t that relevant to the article? It is if you’re not trying to “find” facts to support your thesis.

Yup there are other ways to showcase SU's challenges recruiting NJ. This is not a good one.

 

[PhatOrange]

And I would add this is well:

Raines was offered by Virginia on May 29th, which means he camped at SU in late May.

We already had a commit at WR from Kendall Long, and we had offered future commits Oronde Gadsden II on April 11 and Umari Hatcher on Feb 27. Both of them graded higher at 2-4-7 than Raines and both were offered before Raines. And both had better offers than Raines.

Isn’t that relevant to the article? It is if you’re not trying to “find” facts to support your thesis.

Honestly, I could care less about that kid and I'm 100% behind what coaches see up close and personal at camp. Heck, coaches on the same staff don't agree about players when it comes to evaluation of potential, position fit and skill set.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

That’s the problem. I think there’s a real story here specifically about Dino not personally meeting with prominent NE HS coaches who have been on the job for years. But it’s overshadowed by a lead in with one-sided subjective reporting about a kid that is supposed to be a specific example of SU dropping the ball.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have used it as the lead in. It's the kind of thing that turns people off to the article instantly.

Really odd that Dino has never met Duce or Allen's head coaches. According to them anyway.

I finally got a chance to read the whole story. The bones of an interesting idea are there, but this story needed a way stronger / more experienced editor than a student newspaper has. Despite its loud central thesis, it doesn't look at every angle as deeply as it should and is kind of all over the place.

IMO, this type of story lends itself far better as an "after the fact" story instead of a "during" story because no one will talk about what EXACTLY Syracuse is trying to do.

Edit: While reading, I kept thinking "Why does the author care so much about one state?"

 

[money3189]

Not really.

1 - In 2021 we signed two receivers who were rated higher than Raynes (3 star, 0.8410).

• Hatcher, 3 star, 0.8573
• Gadsden, 3 star, 0.8526

2 - We aren't doing too bad in New Jersey. We can always do better, but...

• Duce Chestnut, Freshman All-American at Syracuse
• Clark, DB transfer from Rutgers. Looks promising
• Allen, RB. 2021 New Jersey Gatorade High School Player of the Year
• Lowery, LB. Solid player ready to contribute more. Rs Fr in 2022

3 - Are we hitting New Jersey hard?

• In 2022, Syracuse only "offered" more players from Florida than they did from New Jersey.
• For 2023, New Jersey is running second to Florida again.

4 - There are couple of studs in the 2023 class in New Jersey.

• Chace Bisontis, OT, #1 prospect. Offered
• Adon Shuler, S, #2 prospect. Offered.
• Sydir Mitchell, DT, #3 prospect. Offered.
• Syracuse has offered 8 of the top 11 prospects in New Jersey.

5 - Coach Monroe has been assigned to the New Jersey territory. We will do better in New Jersey.

Thanks for adding some objectivity.

 

[Jake]

Seems like a lot of people read the first 3 paragraphs about Raines but maybe nothing else. Or some may have just read the headline. He's only a small part of the whole article.

There are some things in there that should be concerning, but perhaps we are fixing with Monroe now engaged in the state.

My sense is that the article paints things as worse than they really are, but that things could be much better than they are. Like most articles, the answer likely lies in the middle.

Eh….the DO is hit and miss with good or accurate reporting. About 15 years ago one of their reporters wrote a ginormous front page article which was completely erroneous because the reporter thought “Airport Plaza” (a shopping mall located in North Syracuse) was the “Syracuse Airport”.

They are about 4 miles apart and people cannot board planes at Airport Plaza—-which was the premise of the story.

Further investigation revealed that the “reporter” wasn’t even a journalism student, had no training and really didn’t care that he fubarred the story.

It was funny and sad at the same time.

 

[PhatOrange]

• 5 - Coach Monroe has been assigned to the New Jersey territory. We will do better in New Jersey.

That is one of the most disappointing things to hear about this staff as recruiters. It spreads Monroe thin and you shouldn't make less time in Florida for your most dominate Florida recruiter. Why are we just living off Monroe in Florida and NJ.

I'm hoping Johnson (who hasn't been announced yet) and Beck have the recruiting fire. Beck sure seems like a guy who can equal Monroe but does a guy with 3 little kids want to live out of hotel? (so maybe he takes NJ/PA etc.) We really need two guys like Monroe who each have a rich territory covered.

NYC/NJ/PA and Philly/South Jersey/DMV should be two powerful recruiters, then Florida (Monroe), then Georgia and the Carolinas. Then you can fill in the VA/Tidewater (where is Chip West?), Michigan/Ohio and wherever else you want to go.

 

[Chip]

Eh….the DO is hit and miss with good or accurate reporting. About 15 years ago one of their reporters wrote a ginormous front page article which was completely erroneous because the reporter thought “Airport Plaza” (a shopping mall located in North Syracuse) was the “Syracuse Airport”.

They are about 4 miles apart and people cannot board planes at Airport Plaza—-which was the premise of the story.

Further investigation revealed that the “reporter” wasn’t even a journalism student, had no training and really didn’t care that he fubarred the story.

It was funny and sad at the same time.

The only thing I'd wonder about this particular article (other than completely made up quotes which would be an early career killer) is if some of the NJ folks have it in for us.

I guess that would include Duce and LeQuint's coaches, which seems weird, but I don't trust anyone.

This isn't the first article about Dino seeming a bit lazy or disorganized when it comes to recruiting. I think Thamel had one fairly recently?

Seems like Dino is taking more trips with Monroe now, but maybe he did that all along who knows. If not, could be a reason why.

I'm not saying where there's smoke there's fire, but I bet there's more smoke than we want to believe.

 

[All4SU]

Maybe despite his performance at the SU camp there was another reason why SU didn’t want the kid. I have no idea. And HCDB isn’t saying. But it’s illogical to think SU had the kid on campus, and he was great, and SU didn’t offer. Whatever their reason… we will never know.

 

[Chip]

Maybe despite his performance at the SU camp there was another reason why SU didn’t want the kid. I have no idea. And HCDB isn’t saying. But it’s illogical to think SU had the kid on campus, and he was great, and SU didn’t offer. Whatever their reason… we will never know.

That part of the article was the easiest to dismiss. Which is why it was stupid to lead with it.

Maybe we don't have the most aggressive staff when it comes to recruiting. But if a kid is in our camp and we like him compared to what else we have or expect at the position, we'll offer him.

Plus the comment that a school 3,000 miles came in and plucked him. Stanford kinda has a national appeal for academics that is unmatched among most of the P5.

 

[tep624]

I finally got a chance to read the whole story. The bones of an interesting idea are there, but this story needed a way stronger / more experienced editor than a student newspaper has. Despite its loud central thesis, it doesn't look at every angle as deeply as it should and is kind of all over the place.

IMO, this type of story lends itself far better as an "after the fact" story instead of a "during" story because no one will talk about what EXACTLY Syracuse is trying to do.

Edit: While reading, I kept thinking "Why does the author care so much about one state?"

Not for nothing but I know you always err on the side of defending journalism, so to see this from you tells me just how bad the article is

 

[tep624]

Honestly, I could care less about that kid and I'm 100% behind what coaches see up close and personal at camp. Heck, coaches on the same staff don't agree about players when it comes to evaluation of potential, position fit and skill set.

The kid is supposed to be some smoking gun - had the author done 5-10 minutes of research he would have been able to see that our WR recruiting both timeline wise and based on kids we were still waiting warranted passing on this kid.

I also like the graphic where they home in on landing top 5 NJ prospects as a sign of success in the state - yeah I agree that would be fantastic but they do realize we haven't landed a top 5 NJ prospect in probably 20 years right?

This is our recruiting of the Rivals top 25/30/40 in NJ going back to 2003. Rivals expanded the state rankings at different points over that period of time. Pretty Barren to begin with and the guys we did land before Dino all had their issues. Baskin never enrolled, Bedle lasted a year and was booted/transferred to Delaware St, Mele had his own issues and transferred to UMASS, Mungwa only came to Syracuse because he didn't qualify academically at Stanford and then quit the program. The best year we had recruiting NJ prior to Dino was Shafer's staff in 2015, all 3 of those players could have been 4 year contributors and Strickland was. Pickard was plagued by injuries and Ellison although promising ended up transferring to Duquesne.

2003 - NONE
2004 - 1 (JJ Bedle - #10)
2005 - NONE
2006 - 1 (Andray Baskin #6)
2007 - 1 (Mike Mele #27)
2008 - NONE
2009 - NONE
2010 - NONE
2011 - 1 (Shutang Mungwa #30)
2012 - NONE
2013 - NONE
2014 - NONE
2015 - 3 (Dontae Strickland #13, Daivon Ellison #26, Jake Pickard #33)
2016 - NONE (Dino's first year, 6 week recruiting cycle)
2017 - 1 (Tommy DeVito #11 - being a UA AA, Elite 11, Tommy should have been rated higher IMO)
2018 - 1 (Taj Harris #26)
2019 - 1 (Joe Rondi #23)
2020 - 1 (Leon Lowery #29)
2021 - 1 (Duce Chestnut #7)
2022 - 3 (LeQuint Allen #9, Denis Jaquez #12, Alijah Clark #4 (2021))

I would argue based on the samples that Dino's staff has done a hell of a lot better job recruiting NJ than the 15 years prior of 4 different staffs, one of which was P/D which had a huge presence in NJ and in their waning years mined the state for basically nothing. Dino's actually landed multiple top 15 recruits out of that state that have gone on to be significant contributors in the program. And his best year so far is 2022, where he landed 2 top 15 recruits with one being the Gatorade player of the year, Clark who was #4 last year as a transfer, and would have had 3 top 15 recruits had they hung onto Price.

And this is the difference between doing a thorough analysis and latching on to one data point as if it proves a thesis. Can we do better in NJ? Absolutely, but you have to go back over 20 years to find a top 5 recruit in NJ that this program has landed (Morant). So how is that the measure of success when you're basically starting from nothing?

The irony here is we're trending up, not down, based on 2022's results.

 

[orangenauburn]

We have targeted areas of NJ we have good relationships with, and that's fine with me. Even if we were a top 25 team the parochials are going to push kids to BC and ND, and other Big Ten teams are recruiting the state hard, especially the northern part.

Then there's the high school programs that are led by Rutgers alums, who are going to be pushing kids to Rutgers.

I like the strategy Dino has taken in regards to NJ and he has gotten good players from there.

And for those who don't follow recruiting, DINO and a bunch of our coaches were all over NJ the past six weeks recruiting for 2023, 2024, and 2025 kids.

We will keep taking 2-5 kids a year from NJ and at this point that's a fair number to take.

Our program has recruited more down the coast now towards Carolinas, Georgia, Florida (wish we had more success in VA, DC, Maryland).

I won't critique the staff and their recruiting efforts. A winning season will pay off in 2023 and beyond. They have the right approach and with the transfer portal the way it is, you can always bring in an infusion of talent to help depth as we did this year.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

This board has a tendency to focus on, and pick apart, the methods of reporters who arrive at conclusions they dont like.

Agreed, there is a lot to pick at here...but there's also something in there IMO, and I don't think the whole thing should be discarded because of some small elements of the reporting we may disagree on

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The kid is supposed to be some smoking gun - had the author done 5-10 minutes of research he would have been able to see that our WR recruiting both timeline wise and based on kids we were still waiting warranted passing on this kid.

I also like the graphic where they home in on landing top 5 NJ prospects as a sign of success in the state - yeah I agree that would be fantastic but they do realize we haven't landed a top 5 NJ prospect in probably 20 years right?

This is our recruiting of the Rivals top 25/30/40 in NJ going back to 2003. Rivals expanded the state rankings at different points over that period of time. Pretty Barren to begin with and the guys we did land before Dino all had their issues. Baskin never enrolled, Bedle lasted a year and was booted/transferred to Delaware St, Mele had his own issues and transferred to UMASS, Mungwa only came to Syracuse because he didn't qualify academically at Stanford and then quit the program. The best year we had recruiting NJ prior to Dino was Shafer's staff in 2015, all 3 of those players could have been 4 year contributors and Strickland was. Pickard was plagued by injuries and Ellison although promising ended up transferring to Duquesne.

2003 - NONE
2004 - 1 (JJ Bedle - #10)
2005 - NONE
2006 - 1 (Andray Baskin #6)
2007 - 1 (Mike Mele #27)
2008 - NONE
2009 - NONE
2010 - NONE
2011 - 1 (Shutang Mungwa #30)
2012 - NONE
2013 - NONE
2014 - NONE
2015 - 3 (Dontae Strickland #13, Daivon Ellison #26, Jake Pickard #33)
2016 - NONE (Dino's first year, 6 week recruiting cycle)
2017 - 1 (Tommy DeVito #11 - being a UA AA, Elite 11, Tommy should have been rated higher IMO)
2018 - 1 (Taj Harris #26)
2019 - 1 (Joe Rondi #23)
2020 - 1 (Leon Lowery #29)
2021 - 1 (Duce Chestnut #7)
2022 - 3 (LeQuint Allen #9, Denis Jaquez #12, Alijah Clark #4 (2021))

I would argue based on the samples that Dino's staff has done a hell of a lot better job recruiting NJ than the 15 years prior of 4 different staffs, one of which was P/D which had a huge presence in NJ and in their waning years mined the state for basically nothing. Dino's actually landed multiple top 15 recruits out of that state that have gone on to be significant contributors in the program. And his best year so far is 2022, where he landed 2 top 15 recruits with one being the Gatorade player of the year, Clark who was #4 last year as a transfer, and would have had 3 top 15 recruits had they hung onto Price.

And this is the difference between doing a thorough analysis and latching on to one data point as if it proves a thesis. Can we do better in NJ? Absolutely, but you have to go back over 20 years to find a top 5 recruit in NJ that this program has landed (Morant). So how is that the measure of success when you're basically starting from nothing?

The irony here is we're trending up, not down, based on 2022's results.

We aren't going to get the NNJ kids or the top kids very often. But it would be nice to have quality NJ kids like we did in 2012 (Stevens, Chibane, Spruill, Dyshawn Davis).

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Read the article after reading some of the comments in thread. I don't agree that it was a hit piece. I think it had some good information and some flaws. Overall, it was an interesting read for me about an important issue (recruiting in NJ). Don't quite understand the anger at the author (or seemingly the State of NJ), especially by those who didn't read the whole article.

 

[tipphill]

great great article !!! clearly points to babers and his stubbornness . he talks jersey but does not act upon it. i and countless others have been saying for years to RECRUIT NJ!!!! we had good results for years in nj before schiano.
babers has never understood the northeast and metro nyc and tri state area. and it has cost us dearly.
his game day decisions are now understandable in light of the article--fits in with the lack of understanding of what is going on.

"Syracuse didn’t make Babers or any of his assistants available to comment for this story. "

Uh, because it's against NCAA regulations to talk about recruits who don't sign with your school.

you can talk about the perception of hs coaches, and their take on schools that recruit nj and offer???you can talk about process

 

[TheCusian]

The kid is supposed to be some smoking gun - had the author done 5-10 minutes of research he would have been able to see that our WR recruiting both timeline wise and based on kids we were still waiting warranted passing on this kid.

I also like the graphic where they home in on landing top 5 NJ prospects as a sign of success in the state - yeah I agree that would be fantastic but they do realize we haven't landed a top 5 NJ prospect in probably 20 years right?

This is our recruiting of the Rivals top 25/30/40 in NJ going back to 2003. Rivals expanded the state rankings at different points over that period of time. Pretty Barren to begin with and the guys we did land before Dino all had their issues. Baskin never enrolled, Bedle lasted a year and was booted/transferred to Delaware St, Mele had his own issues and transferred to UMASS, Mungwa only came to Syracuse because he didn't qualify academically at Stanford and then quit the program. The best year we had recruiting NJ prior to Dino was Shafer's staff in 2015, all 3 of those players could have been 4 year contributors and Strickland was. Pickard was plagued by injuries and Ellison although promising ended up transferring to Duquesne.

2003 - NONE
2004 - 1 (JJ Bedle - #10)
2005 - NONE
2006 - 1 (Andray Baskin #6)
2007 - 1 (Mike Mele #27)
2008 - NONE
2009 - NONE
2010 - NONE
2011 - 1 (Shutang Mungwa #30)
2012 - NONE
2013 - NONE
2014 - NONE
2015 - 3 (Dontae Strickland #13, Daivon Ellison #26, Jake Pickard #33)
2016 - NONE (Dino's first year, 6 week recruiting cycle)
2017 - 1 (Tommy DeVito #11 - being a UA AA, Elite 11, Tommy should have been rated higher IMO)
2018 - 1 (Taj Harris #26)
2019 - 1 (Joe Rondi #23)
2020 - 1 (Leon Lowery #29)
2021 - 1 (Duce Chestnut #7)
2022 - 3 (LeQuint Allen #9, Denis Jaquez #12, Alijah Clark #4 (2021))

I would argue based on the samples that Dino's staff has done a hell of a lot better job recruiting NJ than the 15 years prior of 4 different staffs, one of which was P/D which had a huge presence in NJ and in their waning years mined the state for basically nothing. Dino's actually landed multiple top 15 recruits out of that state that have gone on to be significant contributors in the program. And his best year so far is 2022, where he landed 2 top 15 recruits with one being the Gatorade player of the year, Clark who was #4 last year as a transfer, and would have had 3 top 15 recruits had they hung onto Price.

And this is the difference between doing a thorough analysis and latching on to one data point as if it proves a thesis. Can we do better in NJ? Absolutely, but you have to go back over 20 years to find a top 5 recruit in NJ that this program has landed (Morant). So how is that the measure of success when you're basically starting from nothing?

The irony here is we're trending up, not down, based on 2022's results.

This is better researched than the article and makes more sense.

I read the comments from NJ HC and thought it was a cry for help “please recruit over here - don’t leave us alone with Shady” lol

 

[TheCusian]

great great article !!! clearly points to babers and his stubbornness . he talks jersey but does not act upon it. i and countless others have been saying for years to RECRUIT NJ!!!! we had good results for years in nj before schiano.
babers has never understood the northeast and metro nyc and tri state area. and it has cost us dearly.
his game day decisions are now understandable in light of the article--fits in with the lack of understanding of what is going on.

you can talk about the perception of hs coaches, and their take on schools that recruit nj and offer???you can talk about process

Us being crappy at NJ recruiting is like a bat signal for you

 

[tipphill]

Us being crappy at NJ recruiting is like a bat signal for you

thankyou, glad to see u came out from hiding!!!!

 

[RandomGuy]

A DO? Article from a little back highlighted the change in NJ recruiting. It was very well done, imo.

I don't look at this one as sour grapes, either. What I see is that Babers is sending Monroe to Jersey, and he's more aggressive. Ferri was a good coach/guy, for certain. Maybe Babers is just looking for a more aggressive NJ recruiter, that can plant a flag there. Perhaps this article partially explains parting ways with 2 of our NJ recruiters.

 

[tep624]

This is better researched than the article and makes more sense.

I read the comments from NJ HC and thought it was a cry for help “please recruit over here - don’t leave us alone with Shady” lol

It's just weird timing for an article where this staff had their best class ever for recruiting NJ and reassigned the program's best recruiter to NJ. On top of hyperfocusing on 1 2021 WR recruit who doesn't grade out per the recruiting sites better than the 2 prospects the program was waiting on rather than offering him.