DO article on NJ recruiting

[money3189]

As I putting my analysis together, Erasmus Hall is by far the number one producer of P5 talent in the state. I think the challenge with NYC though is that geographically it’s located closer drive time to other P5’s and generally speaking cultural wise it might as well be on the moon. Some kids have that home state affinity but a lot don’t, it’s more important about proximity to the city if they’re staying local. Rutgers has a huge advantage there and that’s why Schiano had a lot of success recruiting the city with a struggling program.

Agree with all. Im just saying they can do more to steer kids to Cuse in comparison to their efforts in NJ.

 

[orangepassion]

Looks like a very interesting list of speakers.

I thought Doug Marrone was replaced at Bama? Am I also reading correctly that Chris White is still around? I remember he was one of our better recruiters once upon a time.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I thought Doug Marrone was replaced at Bama? Am I also reading correctly that Chris White is still around? I remember he was one of our better recruiters once upon a time.

I think Marrone probably promised to speak at that coaches clinic before he left Bama.

 

[SUbear]

I agree somewhat but you only have so many hours in the day. You have to prioritize.

True but normally you priortize toward your priority targets, that maybe says a lot too. I admit I have no idea how much Dino values New Jersey recruiting. Seems not as much as people might think.

 

[CuseLegacy]

"Both schools have struggled recruiting in-state in recent years, with top talent opting to leave Virginia for Penn State, Ohio State and Notre Dame, among other powerhouse programs."

Sounds familiar.

 

[orangepassion]

"Both schools have struggled recruiting in-state in recent years, with top talent opting to leave Virginia for Penn State, Ohio State and Notre Dame, among other powerhouse programs."

Sounds familiar.

Does anyone find it odd that they both have tails?

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Does anyone find it odd that they both have tails?

It's not as rare as one might think. Haven't you ever seen Shallow Hal?

 

[money3189]

"Both schools have struggled recruiting in-state in recent years, with top talent opting to leave Virginia for Penn State, Ohio State and Notre Dame, among other powerhouse programs."

Sounds familiar.

Some people think we are the only ones that struggle recruiting in their state. At least they have more kids to choose from in the DMV area.

 

[DoctorBombay]

'SYRACUSE NEVER CAME': Inside the Orange’s recruiting missteps in New Jersey

Damning if accurate

I’m 50/50 on this one.
OTOH it reads like a low-rent hit piece that used inconsistent logic & trains of thought, and ends up looking like an amateurish attempt to throw shade.
On the other hand, recruiting hasn’t been that great, at least in terms of ranking, & maybe this could be seen as one reason why. Having perennial “sneaky good” classes ranked 50-79 & filled w/ “diamonds in the rough” gets kinda old if they never pan out.
Dino needs to recruit better, period- whether in Jersey or elsewhere.

 

[TexanMark]

I’m 50/50 on this one.
OTOH it reads like a low-rent hit piece that used inconsistent logic & trains of thought, and ends up looking like an amateurish attempt to throw shade.
On the other hand, recruiting hasn’t been that great, at least in terms of ranking, & maybe this could be seen as one reason why. Having perennial “sneaky good” classes ranked 50-79 & filled w/ “diamonds in the rough” gets kinda old if they never pan out.
Dino needs to recruit better, period- whether in Jersey or elsewhere.

I discount the rankings a bit...too much manipulation by raters beholden to large subscriber bases at Rovils and Scout.

 

[orangenauburn]

Well for those worried about NJ recruiting, a NJ congressman is asking if Rutgers football staff is worth the investment.

 

[Jake]

The Daily Orange is an independent, nonprofit newspaper published in Syracuse, New York. The paper was first published in 1903 and went independent in 1971. The editorial content of The D.O. is entirely run by Syracuse University students, with no oversight from the university. The D.O. receives no funding from SU, relying instead on advertising revenue and donations.

So basically they can say anything they want...within reason.

Unfortunately, they go through periods where it’s run more like a Greek organization than a newspaper.

There are times when unofficial “faculty advisors” have had to step in to right the ship.

The independence cuts both ways, especially when dealing with college kids and they really need professional supervision.

 

[Trueblue25]

Camden, Philly and Baltimore kids are different.

Philly kids have more grit than NYC imo.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No and that article points to a bigger problem
When it comes to our program. Dino needs to make New Jersey a priority and he hasn’t

I agree. For many years under Pasqualoni, he built great relationships with coaches from CT to NJ and PA. Gave a lot of camps. He and DeLeone are both technically proficient, if not excellent coaches at what they do best. We have looked other places than NY and NJ for a generation now, unfortunately, in a business of "What Have you Done for me Lately".

Like the story of the Rochester TE. Oh, Syracuse never offers Rochester and Buffalo kids, they all go to Pitt or WVU, or now even Buffalo. Did that Rochester TE transfer out, or was that a couple other guys?

 

[IthacaMatt]

True but normally you priortize toward your priority targets, that maybe says a lot too. I admit I have no idea how much Dino values New Jersey recruiting. Seems not as much as people might think.

Yes, seems to me he thinks the Big 10 schools and ND have locked up NJ, and that with the staff he has, we can do better in the Carolinas, GA, VA and FL. We've always recruited Florida but now it's our bread and butter it seems.

 

[NJCuse97]

Yes, seems to me he thinks the Big 10 schools and ND have locked up NJ, and that with the staff he has, we can do better in the Carolinas, GA, VA and FL. We've always recruited Florida but now it's our bread and butter it seems.

Schiano coached DC at Miami and has lots of ties there (it was a big reason Rutgers hired him in 2000) but he recruits NJ and NYC a ton. In fact, I think his teams got better with more attention there instead of FL.

 

[NJCuse97]

Fair criticism should be allowed, but simply based on our NJ recruits compared to other years (earlier in the thread) this staff is doing better than Cuse has in a decade plus.

You are comparing midnight blue to black. We haven’t done a good job recruiting NJ/NYC since Marrone, and Pasqualoni before that. Gerg got some residual effect from P, but did not want to recruit the area. Some all time program greats are from that area. This isn’t about north Jersey vs south Jersey, it’s about that whole state/region. Look at the teams of the 90’s. It’s a place we have a higher potential for success landing players than say Texas, or California and we’ve done well with the talent that we’ve gotten from there historically and recently.

 

[NJCuse97]

Im not defending him. Ive heard stories too. They can all do better but we have to keep in mind that their job is harder than most. I voice my criticism whenever I can. At the same time we are not on the road with them listening to conversations they have with coaches. We only hear the stories people tell. Dino definitely can appear more in NYS. It will benefit him but will the top NYS kids start coming to SU because of it? Or will they continue to chase blue bloods? One example, Marrone was very engage in NY and Jarron Jones didnt have one thought of attending SU.

My biggest criticism with in state recruiting is the relationship they have with E Hall. I think there should be a bigger emphasis there. The school will continue to produce top end talent for years to come. I think the staff does the best they can do in NJ. You cant put all your resources there and miss out on kids from other states. Teams like Pitt BC Maryland UVA and rutgers are grabbing mid tier kids also. How many NJ kids do you expect SU to land each year?

Money, I think I have read you and others in this thread mentioning state pride or loyalty. As older people (I hesitate to call myself adult no matter how old) I think that is tough to expect of a high schooler who barely understands pride in his own town. I didn’t know what it meant to me to be from NJ until I went to SU. I didn’t know or understand pride that people in WNY and CNY had in their region either until we were all mixed at SU. It’s tough to sell “hometown pride” because most kids have never faced a challenge or counterpoint to it.

NYC may be the only place this isn’t true. NYC has been told for so long that it’s the greatest place on earth and in many arguments, with good reason, that those players seem to feel that entitlement and want to show others what that means by going to Alabama or ND rather than by beating them. That is the challenge with the high level talent in and around NYC.

 

[tipphill]

Agree with all. Im just saying they can do more to steer kids to Cuse in comparison to their efforts in NJ.

didn't marone have some success in metro ny ? i thought he did.

Agree with all. Im just saying they can do more to steer kids to Cuse in comparison to their efforts in NJ.

we lost nj because we did not invest in our facilities, became a losing program largely because pp could not recruit as well as a result. rutgers invested in their facilities and schiano shut us out of the state . we have our former chancellos to thank as well as a bad ad. our lack of investment also cost ben his job.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

great great article !!! clearly points to babers and his stubbornness . he talks jersey but does not act upon it. i and countless others have been saying for years to RECRUIT NJ!!!! we had good results for years in nj before schiano.
babers has never understood the northeast and metro nyc and tri state area. and it has cost us dearly.
his game day decisions are now understandable in light of the article--fits in with the lack of understanding of what is going on.

you can talk about the perception of hs coaches, and their take on schools that recruit nj and offer???you can talk about process

You‘re stuck in the early 90’s. Things change. NJ is over recruited and sure we did well there 30 years ago when Rutgers was a door mat and every school in the Big 10 wasn’t recruiting there. We did well there this year too

football is a dying sport everywhere in NYS but you want to hit it hard! Sounds logical. as discussed in the NYS recruit thread be selective bring a few kids that are P5 talents and take a few flyers, but you are never going to see a roster dominated with NYS/ NJ talent here. One part doesn’t exist the other part is overfished. find the talent wherever you can, no idea why people still chest pounding for NJ like George Deleone was still recruiting there]

we are also in the ACC now not the Big East that changes things but we now recruit Georgia which has more talent than NJ but nobody wants to hear that. and again we are recruiting NJ

 

[money3189]

didn't marone have some success in metro ny ? i thought he did.

we lost nj because we did not invest in our facilities, became a losing program largely because pp could not recruit as well as a result. rutgers invested in their facilities and schiano shut us out of the state . we have our former chancellos to thank as well as a bad ad. our lack of investment also cost ben his job.

I agree. All those were factors. When the years of losing continues to pile up it makes it harder for coaches to recruit the higher end talent. Especially when neighboring programs have shown a level of consistency.

And yes Marrone took chances on under the radar NY kids. He did a good job developing them. His efforts helped him get Wayne Morgan. The other big factor was showing he could win with what he had. That's what kids want to see. We havent shown that in a long time. We need to develop players and start winning games. The transfer portal is scary. It can help us or hurt us.

 

[DownTheField]

I agree. All those were factors. When the years of losing continues to pile up it makes it harder for coaches to recruit the higher end talent. Especially when neighboring programs have shown a level of consistency.

And yes Marrone took chances on under the radar NY kids. He did a good job developing them. His efforts helped him get Wayne Morgan. The other big factor was showing he could win with what he had. That's what kids want to see. We havent shown that in a long time. We need to develop players and start winning games. The transfer portal is scary. It can help us or hurt us.

Marrone should have been the perfect coach to clean up in NY. From the city, SU alumnus, constantly visitin/doing camps in the city. But if I remember correctly, the coaches were thrilled to send their borderline kids up here but always pushed their blue chip players to the big schools. In the end there was no loyalty and there wasn’t a great return on the investment. Maybe it would have changed if Marrone stuck around but we’ll never know.

 

[money3189]

Money, I think I have read you and others in this thread mentioning state pride or loyalty. As older people (I hesitate to call myself adult no matter how old) I think that is tough to expect of a high schooler who barely understands pride in his own town. I didn’t know what it meant to me to be from NJ until I went to SU. I didn’t know or understand pride that people in WNY and CNY had in their region either until we were all mixed at SU. It’s tough to sell “hometown pride” because most kids have never faced a challenge or counterpoint to it.

NYC may be the only place this isn’t true. NYC has been told for so long that it’s the greatest place on earth and in many arguments, with good reason, that those players seem to feel that entitlement and want to show others what that means by going to Alabama or ND rather than by beating them. That is the challenge with the high level talent in and around NYC.

Interesting way to look at it and it makes sense.

 

[money3189]

Marrone should have been the perfect coach to clean up in NY. From the city, SU alumnus, constantly visitin/doing camps in the city. But if I remember correctly, the coaches were thrilled to send their borderline kids up here but always pushed their blue chip players to the big schools. In the end there was no loyalty and there wasn’t a great return on the investment. Maybe it would have changed if Marrone stuck around but we’ll never know.

Agree

 

[NJCuse97]

You‘re stuck in the early 90’s. Things change. NJ is over recruited and sure we did well there 30 years ago when Rutgers was a door mat and every school in the Big 10 wasn’t recruiting there. We did well there this year too

football is a dying sport everywhere in NYS but you want to hit it hard! Sounds logical. as discussed in the NYS recruit thread be selective bring a few kids that are P5 talents and take a few flyers, but you are never going to see a roster dominated with NYS/ NJ talent here. One part doesn’t exist the other part is overfished. find the talent wherever you can, no idea why people still chest pounding for NJ like George Deleone was still recruiting there]

we are also in the ACC now not the Big East that changes things but we now recruit Georgia which has more talent than NJ but nobody wants to hear that. and again we are recruiting NJ

money3189 has it right, and others as well, heck I think we all agree that winning is a major factor, but development is also important for building relationships as well as instilling confidence in the staff amongst recruits.

It’s all good, but where I take exception to your argument is your assertion that we are not in the Big East, football is dead in NJ, or that NJ is overfished.

Pitt does it, BC does it. Not sure where your Big East argument matters based just on that.

If you think think NJ is overfished, you don’t think that of FL, GA, VA? If your argument is that the talent isn’t good, or that we are now in a tougher conference, Alabama, Georgia, Michigan and Ohio State haven’t taken great program players from NYC/NJ/eastern PA? When we recruited that area well, the BE conference was actually very good, a lot like the ACC really.

The last is that you are now crediting Rutgers as a barrier to our recruiting success in the region because they are no longer a doormat. I can’t remember how many times I have seen that program trashed (justifiably) but now they are affecting our success? I guess here, I’m just hoping for some consistency from the board about what Rutgers is.