Do you think Hoops or Football is better Positioned ..

[Scooch]

My concern is that when Coach does retire we go through a down period similar to North Carolina or what UCONN is just climbing out of.

It’s possible, if not likely, that we do. But our hoops program has the resources to quickly turn things around, in a way our football program simply never can.

Not to be mean, but people thinking our football program is going to be “better positioned” than hoops over the next 5 years because we brought on a couple of short-timer hired guns at OC and QBC, are going to be like Charlie Brown having Lucy yank the ball away yet again. I mean, SU football could be better than 5-7, but SU hoops is permanently in a better position.

 

[Ozone!]

Seems like you are putting a lot of faith in coaches we really have a chance to evaluate yet.

Who are you referring to; our new OC & QB coaches ran one of the most productive offenses in the country last season for UVA over 500 yards of offense per game? Our new ST coach has good experience in both college and NFL and can recruit western PA. He also has experience coaching TE’s.

 

[cali315phan]

I'd say football. My fear is that we become a hoops program that toils in mediocrity not much unlike Indiana. The Hoosiers have a great history and a rabid fan base, but have struggled to be more than a bubble team many years.

 

[elimunelson]

Not to speak for elimunelson , but we are absolutely top 10 in terms of popularity, brand, and fan support. He may have meant that.

That was my point.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Don’t we have a top 25 recruiting class in hoops? Haven’t we given up on a top 25 recruiting class in football ever happening again?

 

[Cuse12]

As soon as we get a new coach hoops.
We should always be top 30 always be an 8 seed or higher, always have a top 20 recruiting class, and always be top 2 in attendance.
SU is at its lowest point since the sanctions. Possibly lowest since JB took over the program.
This is beyond bad. Actually disgusting but the program will rebound.

Factual statements. People keep coming up with excuses “last time we were this bad was when Reagan was in office, get over it”, But they’re completely missing the point. It’s really simple we need to get a home run hire who can recruit with the best of them. One top 5 class would turn this program around.

Ps - we aren’t getting a top 5 class with any of the assistants we have if they became HC. We need to make a hire like USC did for football. A BIG TIME HIRE, that sparks conversation throughout the nation. That’s the type of program we have to be. It’s feast or famine out there these days, and there’s no room for time to go by without us taking a step up as one of the nations elite. We have everything to be a top 25 program every year. Now we need the right coach to make it happen.

 

[elimunelson]

It’s possible, if not likely, that we do. But our hoops program has the resources to quickly turn things around, in a way our football program simply never can.

Not to be mean, but people thinking our football program is going to be “better positioned” than hoops over the next 5 years because we brought on a couple of short-timer hired guns at OC and QBC, are going to be like Charlie Brown having Lucy yank the ball away yet again. I mean, SU football could be better than 5-7, but SU hoops is permanently in a better position.

i'm blown away that this is actually a question worth answering.

I think some people, like myself, romanticize about the period of football we experienced while attending SU. For me it was about 30 years ago now. I am keenly aware that our place as a top 20 football team are over. It will happen on occasion but it won't happen for a sustained period of time absent major changes to the program. I don't think coordinator hires are that change. That will help us bowl again but the 90s football operation is probably a pipe dream.

Basketball can have down seasons but the brand is soooo strong among young and old people across the country (listen to the Hopkins, Harts talk about watching SU on tv from LA) we'll be just fine. The Carrier Dome is a unique basketball experience. I think college basketball, as an entity, benefits from SU having that on tv. It's a massive event that we'll capitalize on for decades to come

 

[elimunelson]

Certainly agree in that aspect which makes almost 8 years of not being ranked there for even a single week that much worse.

I honestly don't care about being ranked if Jim has them playing into the second weekend consistently in the NCAA. Once that trap door is removed, then yes, our program is really suffering.

Maybe i'm crazy but I rather the team streaking in March versus the teams from the early 90s who were top 10 and then flamed out vs Richmond, et al. Those were more infuriating to me because there was 2 more final four teams in there btw 88-98 IMO

 

[Cusefan0307]

Our high water mark for football is basically what we have done the past 7 seasons in basketball.

If basketball were football we would be upset that our consistent 10-11 win teams went to 7 or 8.

 

[baggerbob]

Factual statements. People keep coming up with excuses “last time we were this bad was when Reagan was in office, get over it”, But they’re completely missing the point. It’s really simple we need to get a home run hire who can recruit with the best of them. One top 5 class would turn this program around.

Ps - we aren’t getting a top 5 class with any of the assistants we have if they became HC. We need to make a hire like USC did for football. A BIG TIME HIRE, that sparks conversation throughout the nation. That’s the type of program we have to be. It’s feast or famine out there these days, and there’s no room for time to go by without us taking a step up as one of the nations elite. We have everything to be a top 25 program every year. Now we need the right coach to make it happen.

JB isn't walking away anytime soon, and the position is not as well thought of as many here seem to think. We aren't in the Big East anymore when we were actually relevant. The longer we put out bad teams, the harder the climb back will be.

 

[chugg21]

I honestly don't care about being ranked if Jim has them playing into the second weekend consistently in the NCAA. Once that trap door is removed, then yes, our program is really suffering.

Maybe i'm crazy but I rather the team streaking in March versus the teams from the early 90s who were top 10 and then flamed out vs Richmond, et al. Those were more infuriating to me because there was 2 more final four teams in there btw 88-98 IMO

Personally I'd rather win 5 more regular season games than get an extra tourney win. Give me the '13-'14 team that goes 28-6 and ranked #1 for part of the season vs '17-'18 where we go 23-14 are never ranked but win an extra tourney game. It's not even close for me. These 8 years of being .500 in conference and more or less being irrelevant is killing me.

 

[chugg21]

Our high water mark for football is basically what we have done the past 7 seasons in basketball.

If basketball were football we would be upset that our consistent 10-11 win teams went to 7 or 8.

There are about 5 consistent 11 win teams in P5 football. We haven't been that in quite a while. We're more like 9 wins to 6. From mattering to hoping for a not crap bowl game.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There are about 5 consistent 11 win teams in P5 football. We haven't been that in quite a while. We're more like 9 wins to 6. From mattering to hoping for a not crap bowl game.

You're splitting hairs. I said 10 or 11. That's basically what we did from 09-14. And I went by winning percentage. Making the NIT is like making a crap bowl game.

 

[two3zone]

Don’t we have a top 25 recruiting class in hoops? Haven’t we given up on a top 25 recruiting class in football ever happening again?

 

[chugg21]

You're splitting hairs. I said 10 or 11. That's basically what we did from 09-14. And I went by winning percentage. Making the NIT is like making a crap bowl game.

That's 8-13 years ago at this point. It's been a long ass time since then. I've basically went from being young to old in that timeframe.

 

[chugg21]

View attachment 212508

Basketball class rankings are kinda screwy because quantity has a huge impact. Some teams are taking 1 guy in a class, some are taking 7. We're ranked 15th but have the lowest avg rating of the top 20. For example San Diego State has a higher average than us but is ranked 49th because they only have 2 recruits. Both their guys are ranked between Taylor and Copeland.

I'm excited to see what these guys become but realistically I think we can expect 1 guy to be a lot better than he's ranked, 2 to be about what the ratings say and 2 to likely never really contribute in any way and probably not be around by their 3rd year. Who is going to fall into which category, who the hell knows.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Easily still basketball

 

[syrBossHogg]

JB isn't walking away anytime soon, and the position is not as well thought of as many here seem to think. We aren't in the Big East anymore when we were actually relevant. The longer we put out bad teams, the harder the climb back will be.

IMO this year is the first "bad" team we've had since I started watching SU Basketball. The other teams post-2014 I would describe more as mediocre. Prolly still doesn't mean that much but just wanted to put that out there

 

[Cusefan0307]

That's 8-13 years ago at this point. It's been a long ass time since then. I've basically went from being young to old in that timeframe.

I think we all agree here.

 

[two3zone]

Basketball class rankings are kinda screwy because quantity has a huge impact. Some teams are taking 1 guy in a class, some are taking 7. We're ranked 15th but have the lowest avg rating of the top 20. For example San Diego State has a higher average than us but is ranked 49th because they only have 2 recruits. Both their guys are ranked between Taylor and Copeland.

I'm excited to see what these guys become but realistically I think we can expect 1 guy to be a lot better than he's ranked, 2 to be about what the ratings say and 2 to likely never really contribute in any way and probably not be around by their 3rd year. Who is going to fall into which category, who the hell knows.

I had something typed up very similar to this but deleted it and posted just the picture as I didn’t want to defend the position that the class isn’t that great imo regardless of ranking. I’d be shocked if 2 of them are on the roster after two seasons.

 

[chugg21]

I had something typed up very similar to this but deleted it and posted just the picture as I didn’t want to defend the position that the class isn’t that great imo regardless of ranking. I’d be shocked if 2 of them are on the roster after two seasons.

Likely goes the same way as the 2019 class of 5. Goodine, Q, Edwards, JG, JBA. Actually ended up with 3 starters out of those 5. 2 guys never contributed anything and 2 are already gone and a 3rd tried to but didn't find a home. If we manage to have 3 guys from this class start multiple seasons, you'd have to think the class ended up great. Though there's an argument to be made that 3 guys from that '19 class became multi-year starters more out of necessity than because they were really good.

 

[two3zone]

Likely goes the same way as the 2019 class of 5. Goodine, Q, Edwards, JG, JBA. Actually ended up with 3 starters out of those 5. 2 guys never contributed anything and 2 are already gone and a 3rd tried to but didn't find a home. If we manage to have 3 guys from this class start multiple seasons, you'd have to think the class ended up great. Though there's an argument to be made that 3 guys from that '19 class became multi-year starters more out of necessity than because they were really good.

I’m thinking the same, I will say that Q and Goodine are probably better than the top two in this one (coming in). Needing help immediately isn’t something I don’t think we can really depend on with this class. Evaluation of high school guys is very difficult so who knows but thinking this class is going to trump what we lose in the off season may be off base.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I had something typed up very similar to this but deleted it and posted just the picture as I didn’t want to defend the position that the class isn’t that great imo regardless of ranking. I’d be shocked if 2 of them are on the roster after two seasons.

But the point is we can only dream of that type of class on paper for football. Yes we will have swings and misses but it’s an order of magnitude better than football. With a coach who actually cares about high level recruiting we could easily get back to elite status.

 

[Cusefan0307]

But the point is we can only dream of that type of class on paper for football. Yes we will have swings and misses but it’s an order of magnitude better than football. With a coach who actually cares about high level recruiting we could easily get back to elite status.

Yeah. There’s only 23 schools with multiple 4 star guys in basketball and we are one of them. It’s not our historical level, but it’s still solid. I do expect 2 to transfer though. It’s inevitable no matter what anyone is ranked. Kids want to play.

 

[two3zone]

Yeah. There’s only 23 schools with multiple 4 star guys in basketball and we are one of them. It’s not our historical level, but it’s still solid. I do expect 2 to transfer though. It’s inevitable no matter what anyone is ranked. Kids want to play.

My only issue is that I don’t think our talent evaluation has been good at all, even with decently ranked kids. My fingers are crossed we have a couple home runs here.