Doc Gross leading the charge for ACC division realignment?

[Chris02M]

I suggested this very alignment on the Ga. Tech site and it comes back with negative feedback that NC State, VPI, won't like it.

Personally, I liked your idea better previously without Clemson-FSU playing in the same division. The problem boils down to the fact FSU wants Clemson AND Georgia Tech annually and this is the only alignment that allows that.

how about this combo just a slight tweak:


Atlantic--------------------------------------Coastal
NC State-------------------------------------Wake Forest
North Carolina------------------------------Duke
Virginia--------------------------------------Virginia Tech
Florida State---------------------------------Miami
Clemson--------------------------------------Louisville
Georgia Tech---------------------------------Pittsburgh
Boston College-------------------------------Syracuse

 

[Alsacs]

how about this combo just a slight tweak:


Atlantic--------------------------------------Coastal
NC State-------------------------------------Wake Forest
North Carolina------------------------------Duke
Virginia--------------------------------------Virginia Tech
Florida State---------------------------------Miami
Clemson--------------------------------------Louisville
Georgia Tech---------------------------------Pittsburgh
Boston College-------------------------------Syracuse

That is good I will throw up for the discussion when I go back there. Good job. I like it, but then Duke won't play UVA or Georgia Tech.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Is it gospel that you have to play everyone in your division each year? Obviously it's preferred (big time). But if you played 5 divisional games each season, you could play 3 cross-divisional games - one vs. designated rival and two vs. rotational opponents. Then you'd get through the entire conference in three seasons at the most.

There will the occasional tie-breaker controversy, but if none of these teams are going to give in on sacrificing rivalries with up to four opponents, it would at least allow players to have games against every school in the conference before they graduate.

 

[All4SU]

Of course the way to get around the ncaa two division rule, while still using pods, is to just announce new divisions every year. "This year, the Atlantic Division is ...the Coastal Division is..." Nothing the ncaa could do. They don't stipulate that the two divisions must remain the same from year to year.

 

[SmilinBob]

The NCAA...trying to contain water in a colander since 1952.

 

[Garrett_TD23]

If you were to trade NCSU with Duke, then it might work. As it is, there is an unbalance amount of large public schools in the Atlantic division. Plus Duke would then be able to keep their rivalry with UVA.

The only other problem is that some in the Coastal would complain that there are too many former Big East schools, I say "so what?", but for others it's a big deal.

how about this combo just a slight tweak:


Atlantic--------------------------------------Coastal
NC State-------------------------------------Wake Forest
North Carolina------------------------------Duke
Virginia--------------------------------------Virginia Tech
Florida State---------------------------------Miami
Clemson--------------------------------------Louisville
Georgia Tech---------------------------------Pittsburgh
Boston College-------------------------------Syracuse

 

[Chris02M]

fsu, Clemson and Georgia tech administrators should ok a trade of you 3 will all be in same division but we have to have 9 game schedule since most of discussions of switching the divisions is to get a way to play other division more frequently

 

[omniorange]

how about this combo just a slight tweak:


Atlantic--------------------------------------Coastal
NC State-------------------------------------Wake Forest
North Carolina------------------------------Duke
Virginia--------------------------------------Virginia Tech
Florida State---------------------------------Miami
Clemson--------------------------------------Louisville
Georgia Tech---------------------------------Pittsburgh
Boston College-------------------------------Syracuse

I think if the ACC is going to stick with an 8 game schedule and a traditional static divisional alignment, the league's Big Boys in football do not want to see three of Duke, Wake, BC, and SU in the same division.

Which is why I think this set-up you proposed in another thread might work IF Miami ever got back to being King style Miami or if any of SU, Pitt, or UNC stop pi$$ing around and started playing some serious football:

Coastal----------------------------------------Atlantic
Virginia Tech----------------------------------Louisville
Virginia----------------------------------------Clemson
Syracuse---------------------------------------Boston College
North Carolina---------------------------------NC State
Miami------------------------------------------Florida State
Duke-------------------------------------------Wake Forest
Pittsburgh--------------------------------------Georgia Tech

Myself, I'm beginning to like some of the "pods within divisions" models I've seen over on the ACC csnbbs board moreso than the traditional set-ups with a cross-divisional line-up.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Chris02M]

I think if the ACC is going to stick with an 8 game schedule and a traditional static divisional alignment, the league's Big Boys in football do not want to see three of Duke, Wake, BC, and SU in the same division.

Which is why I think this set-up you proposed in another thread might work IF Miami ever got back to being King style Miami or if any of SU, Pitt, or UNC stop pi$$ing around and started playing some serious football:

Coastal----------------------------------------Atlantic
Virginia Tech----------------------------------Louisville
Virginia----------------------------------------Clemson
Syracuse---------------------------------------Boston College
North Carolina---------------------------------NC State
Miami------------------------------------------Florida State
Duke-------------------------------------------Wake Forest
Pittsburgh--------------------------------------Georgia Tech

Myself, I'm beginning to like some of the "pods within divisions" models I've seen over on the ACC csnbbs board moreso than the traditional set-ups with a cross-divisional line-up.

Cheers,
Neil

maybe that's not in my top 3 options anyway of non pods I like these 3 all under 9 game conference schedules with a permanent rival in the other division

Option 1:

Atlantic-----------------------------------------------Coastal
Florida State-----------------------------------------Miami
Georgia Tech-----------------------------------------Clemson
North Carolina---------------------------------------NC State
Duke---------------------------------------------------Wake Forest
Virginia------------------------------------------------Virginia Tech
Boston College----------------------------------------Syracuse
Louisville----------------------------------------------Pittsburgh


Option 2:

Atlantic--------------------------------------------------Coastal
Florida State--------------------------------------------Miami
Clemson-------------------------------------------------Boston College
Georgia Tech--------------------------------------------Syracuse
NC State-------------------------------------------------Wake Forest
North Carolina------------------------------------------Duke
Virginia--------------------------------------------------Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh-----------------------------------------------Louisville

Option 3:


Atlantic---------------------------------------------------Coastal
Florida State---------------------------------------------Miami
Georgia Tech---------------------------------------------Virginia
Clemson--------------------------------------------------Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh------------------------------------------------Louisville
NC State--------------------------------------------------North Carolina
Wake Forest----------------------------------------------Duke
Boston College-------------------------------------------Syracuse

 

[Chris02M]

potential Syracuse schedules in my 3 options listed above.

Option 1 yearly:
Miami
Clemson
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh
Boston College

year 1:
Georgia Tech
Louisville

year 2:
Duke
Virginia

year 3:
Florida State
North Carolina

Option 2 yearly:
Miami
Boston College
Wake Forest
Duke
Virginia Tech
Louisville
Georgia Tech

year 1:
Pittsburgh
Virginia

year 2:
North Carolina
Clemson

year 3:
Florida State
NC State

Option 3 yearly:
Miami
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Louisville
North Carolina
Duke
Boston College

year 1:
Pittsburgh
NC State

year 2:
Clemson
Georgia Tech

year 3:
Florida State
Wake Forest

 

[Hoo's That]

Is it gospel that you have to play everyone in your division each year? Obviously it's preferred (big time). But if you played 5 divisional games each season, you could play 3 cross-divisional games - one vs. designated rival and two vs. rotational opponents. Then you'd get through the entire conference in three seasons at the most.

There will the occasional tie-breaker controversy, but if none of these teams are going to give in on sacrificing rivalries with up to four opponents, it would at least allow players to have games against every school in the conference before they graduate.

Of course the way to get around the ncaa two division rule, while still using pods, is to just announce new divisions every year. "This year, the Atlantic Division is ...the Coastal Division is..." Nothing the ncaa could do. They don't stipulate that the two divisions must remain the same from year to year.

Under the current rule you do have to play everyone in your division. All4SU is 100% correct; there is no NCAA requirement for how long the teams must remain within a division. Changes could be announced yearly, as long as the membership of each division is specified before the season starts and everyone plays everyone else in the division. I think the NCAA leadership will eventually get tired of being beaten up about this and get the D-1AA, D-2, and D-3 schools to change the rule and not allow a conference championship game in any division that doesn't have an NCAA championship. They never anticipated that any D-1A conference would reach 12 members and qualify for a championship game. The rule was established for a D-3 conference to determine who got their automatic bid for the D-3 football championship.

 

[Alsacs]

Under the current rule you do have to play everyone in your division. All4SU is 100% correct; there is no NCAA requirement for how long the teams must remain within a division. Changes could be announced yearly, as long as the membership of each division is specified before the season starts and everyone plays everyone else in the division. I think the NCAA leadership will eventually get tired of being beaten up about this and get the D-1AA, D-2, and D-3 schools to change the rule and not allow a conference championship game in any division that doesn't have an NCAA championship. They never anticipated that any D-1A conference would reach 12 members and qualify for a championship game. The rule was established for a D-3 conference to determine who got their automatic bid for the D-3 football championship.

Hoo's That

How would UVA fans like divisions split with this built in
Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
North Carolina State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

UNC-NCSU, Duke-Wake, VPI-UVA built in?

BC/SU, FSU/UM, CU/GT/Pitt/UL

 

[All4SU]

Under the current rule you do have to play everyone in your division. All4SU is 100% correct; there is no NCAA requirement for how long the teams must remain within a division. Changes could be announced yearly, as long as the membership of each division is specified before the season starts and everyone plays everyone else in the division. I think the NCAA leadership will eventually get tired of being beaten up about this and get the D-1AA, D-2, and D-3 schools to change the rule and not allow a conference championship game in any division that doesn't have an NCAA championship. They never anticipated that any D-1A conference would reach 12 members and qualify for a championship game. The rule was established for a D-3 conference to determine who got their automatic bid for the D-3 football championship.

Good post. Mostly because you said I was 100% correct. I'll click "Like" on any post that says that. I don't get to be right very often.

 

[Hoo's That]

Hoo's That

How would UVA fans like divisions split with this built in
Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
North Carolina State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

UNC-NCSU, Duke-Wake, VPI-UVA built in?

BC/SU, FSU/UM, CU/GT/Pitt/UL

I don't think many UVa people would have a problem with that at all. We hit our priorities of playing VPI and UNC, and we like playing Duke. We'd also absolutely love the idea of having VPI in the other division. For Duke and UNC it's no real change, so they should be happy with it. NC State is happy because they're still playing UNC. And now they can get the added plus of regularly comparing notes with VPI on what's the best tractor to buy.

 

[TampaNole]

I don't think many UVa people would have a problem with that at all. We hit our priorities of playing VPI and UNC, and we like playing Duke. We'd also absolutely love the idea of having VPI in the other division. For Duke and UNC it's no real change, so they should be happy with it. NC State is happy because they're still playing UNC. And now they can get the added plus of regularly comparing notes with VPI on what's the best tractor to buy.

Wahoo, y'all remember to bring the Jefferson–Eppes Trophy back to Tallahassee next fall. It needs to be placed back in it's home.

 

[Hoo's That]

Wahoo, y'all remember to bring the Jefferson–Eppes Trophy back to Tallahassee next fall. It needs to be placed back in it's home.

Oh don't worry, we'll bring it it with us when we go to Tally. We'll also bring it back to C'ville with us when we leave so it's back home.

For the benefit of our SU hosts - Thomas Jefferson's grandson, Francis Eppes, was one of the founders of the school that became FSU, so the winner of the UVa-FSU game receives the Jefferson-Eppes Trophy.

 

[riskylogic]

Start witht he on

Hoo's That

How would UVA fans like divisions split with this built in
Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
North Carolina State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

UNC-NCSU, Duke-Wake, VPI-UVA built in?

Those absolutely should be the midatlantic pods. A 4+3 pod formal would result in two potential divisional makeups. 2+3+2 would be another way to go :

Two southern podlets: Miami-GT zippered with FSU-Clemson
Two northern podlets: Pitt-Syr zippered with Lville-BC

That would yield four different divisional possibilities:

A: "Coastal" = S1+MA1+N1 , "Atlantic" =S2+MA2+N2
B: "Coastal" = S1+MA1+N2, "Atlantic" =S2+MA2+N1
C: "Coastal" = S1+MA2+N1, "Atlantic" =S2+MA1+N2
D: "Coastal" = S1+MA2+N2, "Atlantic" =S2+MA1+N1

Use the 2nd out of division game to create matchups against unzippered teams in the same geographic region (e.g. FSU vs GT, UNC vs Wake, Syr vs Lville). Everybody would play everybody at least once every three years.

 

[Alsacs]

If Pods would be acceptable I would go like this:

Mid-Atlantic 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Mid-Atlantic 2
NC State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

Northeast 1
Boston College
Louisville

Northeast 2
Pittsburgh
Syracuse

South 1
Florida State
Clemson

South 2
Georgia Tech
Miami

1 cross-over game for each UNC-NCSU, Duke-Wake, UVA-VPI, BC-SU, UL-Pitt, FSU-Miami, GT-Clemson

Year 1- Midatlantic 1, Northeast 1, South 1, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.
Midatlantic 2, Northeast 2, South 2, 1 cross-over, 1 random game

Year 2- Midatlantic 1, Northeast 2, South 1, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.
Midatlantic 2, Northeast 1, South 2, 1 cross-over, 1 random game

Year 3- Midatlantic 1, Northeast 1, South 2, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.
Midatlantic 2, Northeast 2, South 1, 1 cross-over, 1 random game

Year 4- Midatlantic 2, Northeast 1, South 1, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.
Midatlantic 1, Northeast 2, South 2, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.

Year 5- Midatlantic 2, Northeast 2., South 1, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.
Midatlantic 1, Northeast 1, South 2, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.

Year 6- Midatlantic 2, Northeast 1, South 2, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.
Midatlantic 1, Northeast 2, South 1, 1 cross-over, 1 random game.

This balanced like what you suggested.

 

[Marroniac]

@FoeBoy_Cuse4: @ZiggySmalls_ @D1_Roberts they may restructure the ACC. To Us FSU Clem. UVA VT NC State

 

[bnoro]

@FoeBoy_Cuse4: @ZiggySmalls_ @D1_Roberts they may restructure the ACC. To Us FSU Clem. UVA VT NC State

That would be a silly division for us. Absolutely not. And it's short a team.

Edit: Plus, why would AJ have been told about this?

 

[JJReddawg]

@FoeBoy_Cuse4: @ZiggySmalls_ @D1_Roberts they may restructure the ACC. To Us FSU Clem. UVA VT NC State

I'd take that.

 

[All4SU]

@FoeBoy_Cuse4: @ZiggySmalls_ @D1_Roberts they may restructure the ACC. To Us FSU Clem. UVA VT NC State

So we trade Louisville for Vtech, and BC for Virginia? Who is #7?
They would have to keep bc in our group.

 

[Moontan]

So we trade Louisville for Vtech, and BC for Virginia? Who is #7?

Wake or BC would have to stick around... I'd guess BCU.

 

[Hoo's That]

@FoeBoy_Cuse4: @ZiggySmalls_ @D1_Roberts they may restructure the ACC. To Us FSU Clem. UVA VT NC State

This won't work because UVa and NC State both need to play UNC each year.

Here's what I've come up with. In this one, 9 teams get to stay put and only 5 teams have to move. I think it accomplishes what most are after. The 9 that stay put do not cause any changes on other teams' schedules and their schedules only change to pick up the moves by the other 5. Paired rivals are on the same line.

Atlantic Coastal
FSU Miami (they both keep their schedules)
Ga Tech Clemson (they swap schedules)
NC State UNC (they both keep their schedules)
Wake Duke (they both keep their schedules)
VPI UVa (VPI picks up UMd's schedule and UVa keeps its schedule)
BC SU (BC keeps its schedule and SU picks up VPI's schedule)
Louisville Pitt (Louisville picks up SU's schedule and Pitt keeps its schedule)

I think this is what Dr. Gross was looking for. It gives you a game in Miami every other year, and you get to keep your yearly games with Pitt and BC. It gives FSU a yearly game with Ga Tech (their closest neighbor). The UVa-VPI game becomes a paired rival game rather than a division game, same with SU-BC (which would have been the pairing without the Va governor's meddling in the original expansion). And Louisville gets to play Pitt each year for ownership of the Ohio River.

 

[All4SU]

This won't work because UVa and NC State both need to play UNC each year.
.

So UVA doesn't need to play VTech every year? That's a relief.