Does anybody still think Edwards... | Page 9 | Syracusefan.com

Does anybody still think Edwards...

It's almost like game experience is different than practice experience.
THIS. I find it baffling one of the greatest coaches of all time still doesn’t understand this after a 40+ year, HOF career. There really is a such thing as practice players and in game players, some players perform better in a practice setting, some players perform better in an in game setting. it’s unbelievable to me that JB was giving jesse 3-5 minutes in random games to discover if he was the latter. Mind boggling to me, genuinely.
 
I could see it a bit. Imagine you are Kadary playing against the starters in practice. Instead of making sweet passes to Buddy for a near guaranteed assist, you are passing to Chaz Owens. Doesn't make you look as good. Honestly, I have no idea how the practices have been run this year, who is available at all due to Covid, so playing with the second team, third, walk-ons might actually make it even harder to get in during real games.
It’s not just Chaz, Kadary would have Braswell and Newton on the floor to pass to as well.
Kadary would drive by either Buddy or Joe if they defended him.

I don’t believe Joe is better than Kadary in practice.
 
finished 8th or 9th in the big east that year, if my memory is right.
UConn had gone undefeated in non conference play that season. Kemba beat a top 10 Texas on the road earlier that year.
UConn was safely in. They were a 9 seed in the BET but that Big East got 11 teams in the tournament it was stacked.
 
It’s not just Chaz, Kadary would have Braswell and Newton on the floornto pass to as well.
Kadary would drive by either Buddy or Joe if they defended him.
Assuming Newton and Bras were there on the floor and actually hit the shots. We see how often Bobby Bras jacks up threes that don't come close. Woody was sick for a while (I believe) and likely wasn't playing at all. Just saying, we don't know who was there and who wasn't for him to work with, and while he's good, if/when he gets by our starting guards, he still has to get by the front line who probably aren't all that worried about being outside defending walk-ons.
 
In 19-20 he played more than 2/3 of his games and minutes against P5 competition. That's the season of per 40s I'm more referencing.

You're smarter than this. The idea that Edwards hasn't been productive in the minutes he's been given is a myth. If people want to question how meaningful those minutes are that's a different discussion. But to say Edwards doesn't contribute in his time on the court is false.

You know who an argument can be made doesn't accomplish anything in their court time based on their per 40s? Bol Ajak. His per 40 stats are 1.6 points, 3.2 rebounds, 0.8 steals and 1.6 blocks.

He played 21 out of 34 games, and very few of those minutes were high leverage (I remember Clemson was and that ended badly). It's not a representative sample of the games the team plays.

Against this same team in January in seven minutes he had one foul, one block, one turnover and no boards. That looks pretty bad over 40 minutes also.

He's a young guy, is going to get better through just playing more and getting stronger. Nothing really wrong with that.
 
Now I’ll say this is a fair critique. Marek is def guilty of this as well but obv he plays more because he’s a senior and brings more on O. Those are just the breaks for Jesse unfortunately. But will agree you have a point here.
It's a definite issue. The 1st UNC game he played 35 mins. 35!! and grabbed a single rebound. 4 days later against pit he played 39 mins and grabbed 2. That seems like a wee bit of an issue from our center. Edwards managed 8 in 24 minutes against some serious beef. Marek has grabbed more than 8 on only 2 occasions and 0 times in our last 13 games despite playing 35 mins a night.
 
He played 21 out of 34 games, and very few of those minutes were high leverage (I remember Clemson was and that ended badly). It's not a representative sample of the games the team plays.

Against this same team in January in seven minutes he had one foul, one block, one turnover and no boards. That looks pretty bad over 40 minutes also.

He's a young guy, is going to get better through just playing more and getting stronger. Nothing really wrong with that.
That's exactly what we are saying, and what JB has been depriving him of all season. And then makes snide comments about him in pressers.
 
I still feel our D can get better.
We could try to find some gimmick half-court press when Allen is in Maybe shadowing the 1 or the 2 tight (depending on team). He's played man and anticipates passes. Imagine that with K. Good luck doing that now though with one-day practice.
 
I could see it a bit. Imagine you are Kadary playing against the starters in practice. Instead of making sweet passes to Buddy for a near guaranteed assist, you are passing to Chaz Owens. Doesn't make you look as good. Honestly, I have no idea how the practices have been run this year, who is available at all due to Covid, so playing with the second team, third, walk-ons might actually make it even harder to get in during real games.

I sorta remember JB saying if a shot gets off clean in practice they count the stat.
 
That's exactly what we are saying, and what JB has been depriving him of all season. And then makes snide comments about him in pressers.

The last time we played UNC he couldn't perform. He played really well in a game we won by 26. I have no idea what happens in practice to comment.

Also UNC is awful. That helps. That JB and Roy coached against each other in 96 and 03 with that talent then go to last night must give them nightmares.
 
The last time we played UNC he couldn't perform. He played really well in a game we won by 26. I have no idea what happens in practice to comment.

Also UNC is awful. That helps. That JB and Roy coached against each other in 96 and 03 with that talent then go to last night must give them nightmares.
Marek couldn't perform that game either and was probably worse. 2 buckets, a single rebound and 0 blocks in 35 mins. Any of the bigs could have managed that given the opportunity.
 
A huge waste of time on this post. Again not sure why your attacking me when I mentioned in another post I agree he should of been getting 5-7 mins a game for experience and to see what he could contribute. I disagreed with ppl mentioning he should be getting starter minutes (not you so weird to choose my post for your tangent) but where I disagree is I think he had been playing weak all year up until the last few games. The notion that he couldn’t rebound wasn’t a notion. He was soft under the boards, got pushed around, wasn’t aggressive and would constantly get the ball poked out of his hands/ was weak with it. I call BS on your BS. You don’t agree with my opinion above I’d imagine which is fine. But I watched pretty much every second of every game outside of the GT game and this is really the first time I’ve come away being impressed with Edwards.

And I call BS to you doubling down on an opinion that is based upon erroneous information / assumptions! Ha!

All kidding aside, here's the deal -- everyone is entitled to their opinion. But you seem to be digging your heels in for forming that opinion, when others on a message board are pointing out the flaws in the logic. It mirrors a board undercurrent that sold Jesse short last year, that continued denigrating his capabilities over the summer, and has extended into this year using the fact that JB hasn't played him to indicate that he's not capable.

There's something else that needs to be pointed out [not to you specifically - but in general]. There's bench play that doesn't hurt the team, and bench play that HELPS the team. Examples of the former are Bayer having to play the final 6:30 of an NCAA game against a highly seeded Michigan State team, and not making mistakes, not trying to do too much, etc. and helping the team eek one out. Not hurting the team was those two times in 2014, when we'd ride or die with Rak the entire game, and he got in bad foul trouble necessitating us bringing in Obokoh to play extended minutes in both second halves -- who didn't do a ton, but also didn't hurt us as we won both of those games.

Not hurting us should be the benchmark for which backup center play is acceptable. Come in, do a reasonable job, use your fouls, don't try to do too much, avoid dumb mistakes.

But it is entirely different when a guy comes in and actually exceeds that minimum threshold. Especially for a team that -- as thousands have pointed out throughout this thread -- has struggled immensely to rebound and defend the interior. We've been hurting inside from game 1, when Sidibe got injured a mere four minutes into the season. What we're seeing isn't just a guy for whom the light bulb has suddenly gone on for -- he's been capable of this all along.

Sure, he's skinny / weak right now. No, he isn't a finished product. And yes, we have to expect some inconsistency -- because he's inexperienced.

But does he have mobility? Does he have length? Does he do a better job of challenging / altering shots than the majority of the fanbase gives him credit for? Does he offer more of a rebounding threat than Marek against legitimate bigs? Does he offer a "longer" defensive presence than Marek? Does he give us an additional 5 fouls to burn defending the paint? Does he finish with authority better than any other C on the roster?

Check, check, check, check, check, check, and check.

Don't buy into the excuse from the head coach that Jesse "isn't ready" or can't produce. We've seen what he can do when given the opportunity to play extended minutes, and through mistakes. UNC has torn us up inside the past 10+ times we've played them. This wasn't some miniscule team that Jesse got the job done against -- this was a beefy UNC with wave after wave of bigs. And we don't win without Boeheim playing Edwards and letting him use every minute available.
 
Marek couldn't perform that game either and was probably worse. 2 buckets, a single rebound and 0 blocks in 35 mins. Any of the bigs could have managed that given the opportunity.

We got outrebounded by 20 last night. UNC might just be terrible (candidly I find Roy's new style of play below him).
 
We got outrebounded by 20 last night. UNC might just be terrible (candidly I find Roy's new style of play below him).
UNC is definitely terrible and if we get outrebounded by 24 instead then we probably lose.
 
He played 21 out of 34 games, and very few of those minutes were high leverage (I remember Clemson was and that ended badly). It's not a representative sample of the games the team plays.

Against this same team in January in seven minutes he had one foul, one block, one turnover and no boards. That looks pretty bad over 40 minutes also.

He's a young guy, is going to get better through just playing more and getting stronger. Nothing really wrong with that.
Ah, ok, so we're going to move the goalposts from "marginal minutes against lesser competition" to few of the minutes he played against P5 opponents were high leverage.

Come on, man.

Also, part of the reason why per 40 can be valuable is because it standardizes performance around a baseline so that we don't take too much away from any single game.
 
We got outrebounded by 20 last night. UNC might just be terrible (candidly I find Roy's new style of play below him).
He's getting into the territory of focusing on athletes instead of basketball players. Although I love getting players time on the court, Roy always seemed to push that too far. Seems like his line changes take guys out of the flow almost as badly as not putting them into the game except for a couple moments here and there like our guy does. He needs better shooters for sure. Maybe one or two fewer 7 footers and a couple more 6'7" guys who can shoot the 3.
 
I only got through page 4 of this thread. But, I get the feeling you folks don’t like starting every game down by ten before putting in Kadary and Edwards and clawing back. Maybe, if healthy, start those two guys. See how it goes. Substitute as needed. You have a guard rotation, a forward rotation and a center rotation, use it. Figure out who’s got the hot hand, exploit mismatches...you know, basketball. This can be a pretty good team.
I think there's a term for what you propose. It's called "coaching".
 
What is probably most infuriating to me right now with Boeheim is that he doesn't want to be wrong so I can completely see Jesse with limited minutes against Clemson. Notice that Kadary usually comes in only after 7 minutes or so when we're behind. Great way to set guys up for success, Jim. My gawd.
 
A light came on for Jesse. You can never predict when that is going to happen. During a year, in between years,last game of the year, whatever. He showed teeth the last few games that just weren't there in previous performances. He wasn't challenging rebounds or shots in his previous appearances. That appears to have changed. Let's be happy about that and hope it progresses.
I'm not sure it's as much as a light coming on, I think it's confidence and getting the jitters out. He's been able to play the last couple games because he knew he was not coming out so he wasn't looking over his shoulder at the bench, he just played.
 
Ah, ok, so we're going to move the goalposts from "marginal minutes against lesser competition" to few of the minutes he played against P5 opponents were high leverage.

Come on, man.

Also, part of the reason why per 40 can be valuable is because it standardizes performance around a baseline so that we don't take too much away from any single game.

Not moving goalposts, I stand on that per 40 stat for a guy like him to be meaningless. It just obviously misses so much.
 
He's getting into the territory of focusing on athletes instead of basketball players. Although I love getting players time on the court, Roy always seemed to push that too far. Seems like his line changes take guys out of the flow almost as badly as not putting them into the game except for a couple moments here and there like our guy does. He needs better shooters for sure. Maybe one or two fewer 7 footers and a couple more 6'7" guys who can shoot the 3.


Agreed. I gather he doesn't deal with the 1 and done types as well as his neighbor down the road does.

They ran an inbounds in the first half where one of their bigs just completely shoved Marek in the back, was having flashbacks to Buzz's Marquette teams.
 
Jesse Pinkman Reaction GIF by Breaking Bad
 

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