Does anyone believe that with a new football coach and the current level of talent, that Syracuse could contend for an ACC title?

[Deleted member 8116]

He needs to find away to get 4 wins

I don’t see it. This team can end up 5-7 or 7-5. Just when you think Pitt is an auto W, they are putting it on Louisville.

 

[OburgOrange]

 

[The Viking]

No, we need a significant talent upgrade. How can you have recruiting classes below 35-40 and expect to compete in the ACC, where several schools have top 20
recruiting classes every year.

We need more HS football players from NYS who excel. Increase the size of SU's regional feeder program." They wouldn't be afraid of committing because of the climate. How are the HS football programs in the warm weather states different/better? Do the players have more "seasons" or other opportunities to play year round?
There have been lots of good points made in this thread, but geez, so many of the good players come from the warm weather states.

 

[orangecuse]

McNabb had Michael Vick all but signed to take his place. Vick wanted to check with his mother, made a phone call - she wanted him to stay home. If he did what he wanted to do things would have been much different at the time in the SU football program.

 

[CousCuse]

I don’t see it. This team can end up 5-7 or 7-5. Just when you think Pitt is an auto W, they are putting it on Louisville.

I watched ACC games all day long. Syracuse clearly looks like the worst team in the league. VT is surging as well as PITT. GT on the road, no way. Wake is still tough, maybe they have a shot at BC, but of they get clobbered at VT, it probably won't matter.

 

[JimBoston]

I have said this multiple times. The recruiting base was ignored under Robinson and Marone was starting to bring it back, but he left. Dino, who I thought was a good offensive mind, did not build on Marone's efforts as he didn't hire coaches with strong ties to the recruiting base and the recruiting base is now gone. Look at 2023 recruiting in the former recruiting base:

Syracuse got:

0 of the top 10 recruits in CT
0 of the top 5 recruits in DC
0 of the top 30 recruits in MD
0 of the top 10 recruits in MA
1 of the top 30 recruits in NJ
2 of the top 10 recruits in NY
0 of the top 50 recruits in OH
0 of the top 30 recruits in PA

Some on the board may disagree, but I think the best recruits Syracuse can get are in the recruiting base and that is how you make Syracuse more competitive with the top ACC schools.

 

[orangepassion]

I want a coach that doesn't quit mid-game. Is that too much to ask for? It has been going on for years. I felt bad for the Defensive players yesterday.

 

[kcsu]

No, we need a significant talent upgrade. How can you have recruiting classes below 35-40 and expect to compete in the ACC, where several schools have top 20
recruiting classes every year.

Whats the point of your question? To support the current coach? To defend the recent collapse? Winning the ACC title isnt an impossible task. I personally believe that with a better coach we beat Clemson last year going away and then who knows what would have happened.
I also believe that with a better strength and conditioning coach this program improves. That with better in game management this team improves. That if the current coach had built a staff focused on recruiting our key areas and focused more on New Jersey and the surrounding areas than Texas and Hawaii that our recruiting would be better.
So yes i do believe that we can contend for ACC titles. Not every year. But once every 5. Yes i do.
More importantly i believe the only question that should be asked is can Syracuse do better than it is currently doing? If the answer is no, than proceed as is.
If the answer is yes than its up to the AD to make a change.

At this point ill stay the course on my feelings which are to let this seasons overall results determine Dinos fate.
Not the previous years.
This one year.
If we finish strong. Make a bowl and compete well, hold the team together i would retain Dino and the staff.
Obviously if the current state of the team continues Dino will be fired.

Losing to Clemson, NC, and FSU isnt the issue.
Lack of preparation, in game decisions and how we are losing is the issue.

 

[kcsu]

The whole thread is misguided. The question isn't whether we have the talent, can get the talent, will ever get the talent. The question is, from what we have seen after 8 years, is Dino the guy that can get Syracuse to whatever level it can get to? We have had 8 years to make this judgment. The OP thinks this is as good as it could get. That this game by game mismanagement means little. That the lack of talent is not his fault. Heck, we should be happy with these results. Get em while you can. I have to think we can do better than not ever being competitive in a national game. If i thought the way the Op thought, I would never watch the team play another game.

Losers tend to defend losing. Every situation needs to be judged first against itself. You are spot on.
Does change result in an improved program going forward? If no, stay the course. If yes change.

 

[kcsu]

Not unless we were recruiting talent and would be ranked in the top ten every year. If we were, they'd stay and others would come in from talent rich states. The best want to play for the best.

The top eleven states with the most talent for 2023 - are in order:

1. Texas - Best High School Duncanville - Duncanville
2. Florida - " " " IMG Academy - Bradenton
3. California " " " Mater Dei - Santa Ana
4. Georgia " " " Buford - Buford
5. Alabama " " " Thompson Alabaster - Alabaster 50 - 5 since 20198
6. Louisianna " " " John Curtis Christian - River Ridge
7. Ohio " " " St. Edward - Lakeland
8. Virginia " " " Highland Springs - Highlang Springs
9. Pennsylvania " " St. Joseph Prep - Philadelphia
10. Illinois " " " Est St. Louis- E.St. Louis
11. New Jersey " " Bergen Catholic - Oradell

So six states in reach we should focus on. Unfortunately our head coach over the last 8 plus years hasnt built his staff with coaches that had any true ties to these key areas. Last year that changed a little and amazingly we actually landed a few kids from these areas.

 

[tipphill]

no

 

[elimunelson]

People overlook the fact that SU in late 80s/90s found inefficiencies to be successful. Deleone built an offense that worked with athletic/running qbs and a Cheesecake Factory playbook.

That was coaching and a guy who knew route 95, 84, 128, and other back roads of New England where there was less interest from sec and other southern schools

If they switch it up I want someone who knows those roads again. I’ve mentioned Bob Chesney because he’s built holy cross from a bad 1aa team to one that is playoff bound yearly. Not easy. Feels like a dick Mac hire to me. Chesney has a lot of pitino in him and would infuse energy into this thing. We need energy and youth. I think ACC is tough for us but Bob would provide the program w some oomph

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

? If Urban Meyer said he wanted to resurrect SU FB on his last coaching stop, would the fans accept him and his baggage for the promise of winning FB

 

[Newhouser]

Whats the point of your question? To support the current coach? To defend the recent collapse? Winning the ACC title isnt an impossible task. I personally believe that with a better coach we beat Clemson last year going away and then who knows what would have happened.
I also believe that with a better strength and conditioning coach this program improves. That with better in game management this team improves. That if the current coach had built a staff focused on recruiting our key areas and focused more on New Jersey and the surrounding areas than Texas and Hawaii that our recruiting would be better.
So yes i do believe that we can contend for ACC titles. Not every year. But once every 5. Yes i do.
More importantly i believe the only question that should be asked is can Syracuse do better than it is currently doing? If the answer is no, than proceed as is.
If the answer is yes than its up to the AD to make a change.

At this point ill stay the course on my feelings which are to let this seasons overall results determine Dinos fate.
Not the previous years.
This one year.
If we finish strong. Make a bowl and compete well, hold the team together i would retain Dino and the staff.
Obviously if the current state of the team continues Dino will be fired.

Losing to Clemson, NC, and FSU isnt the issue.
Lack of preparation, in game decisions and how we are losing is the issue.

I agree with most of this. I personally would not extend Dino but I get that he will be.

What's his next deal look like? Shorter I hope.

 

[Newhouser]

People overlook the fact that SU in late 80s/90s found inefficiencies to be successful. Deleone built an offense that worked with athletic/running qbs and a Cheesecake Factory playbook.

That was coaching and a guy who knew route 95, 84, 128, and other back roads of New England where there was less interest from sec and other southern schools

If they switch it up I want someone who knows those roads again. I’ve mentioned Bob Chesney because he’s built holy cross from a bad 1aa team to one that is playoff bound yearly. Not easy. Feels like a dick Mac hire to me. Chesney has a lot of pitino in him and would infuse energy into this thing. We need energy and youth. I think ACC is tough for us but Bob would provide the program w some oomph

We will have to outbid BC but agree he would be good.

 

[alphaorange]

People overlook the fact that SU in late 80s/90s found inefficiencies to be successful. Deleone built an offense that worked with athletic/running qbs and a Cheesecake Factory playbook.

That was coaching and a guy who knew route 95, 84, 128, and other back roads of New England where there was less interest from sec and other southern schools

If they switch it up I want someone who knows those roads again. I’ve mentioned Bob Chesney because he’s built holy cross from a bad 1aa team to one that is playoff bound yearly. Not easy. Feels like a dick Mac hire to me. Chesney has a lot of pitino in him and would infuse energy into this thing. We need energy and youth. I think ACC is tough for us but Bob would provide the program w some oomph

That doesn't work anymore. Interstate, dirt roads, it doesn't matter. With the internet and online scouting services, there are no secrets. Add the portal and NIL and its hard to keep any under the radar guys you do find. And FYI, (not aimed at you) I don't find a 7 win season "good". 8 wins are good, 9 is very good, and 10 or more is great. IMO. Before the season, most would be very very happy with 8 wins, ecstatic with 9 or more. Those possibilities still exist until they don't. 2 losses to 2 potentially top 5 teams and at least one other that will likely end up top 20 (Clemson). The ACC is decent this year despite all the haters.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Losers tend to defend losing. Every situation needs to be judged first against itself. You are spot on.
Does change result in an improved program going forward? If no, stay the course. If yes change.

The thread isn't misguided. The question is just as valid as the questions that you pose. Blaming the Coach is the easiest thing to do. Why do we have such a revolving door of coaches with the same results, if just changing the coach is the solution to winning. The dynamics of recruiting to Syracuse is a multifaceted problem and many Syracuse fans just want to focus on the coach. I am not defending losing, but as someone who has made a career out of creative problem solving, I recognize the multidimensional aspect of the problems that face Syracuse football.

 

[Dr. Bill]

I agree with most of this. I personally would not extend Dino but I get that he will be.

What's his next deal look like? Shorter I hope.

What is the point of the Question you ask? It isn't to support the coach or defend losing, the purpose of the question was to get readers to think beyond the coach and look at the multidimensional aspects behind why Syracuse football doesn't produce the consistent winner that we hope for each year.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Whats the point of your question? To support the current coach? To defend the recent collapse? Winning the ACC title isnt an impossible task. I personally believe that with a better coach we beat Clemson last year going away and then who knows what would have happened.
I also believe that with a better strength and conditioning coach this program improves. That with better in game management this team improves. That if the current coach had built a staff focused on recruiting our key areas and focused more on New Jersey and the surrounding areas than Texas and Hawaii that our recruiting would be better.
So yes i do believe that we can contend for ACC titles. Not every year. But once every 5. Yes i do.
More importantly i believe the only question that should be asked is can Syracuse do better than it is currently doing? If the answer is no, than proceed as is.
If the answer is yes than its up to the AD to make a change.

At this point ill stay the course on my feelings which are to let this seasons overall results determine Dinos fate.
Not the previous years.
This one year.
If we finish strong. Make a bowl and compete well, hold the team together i would retain Dino and the staff.
Obviously if the current state of the team continues Dino will be fired.

Losing to Clemson, NC, and FSU isnt the issue.
Lack of preparation, in game decisions and how we are losing is the issue.

What is the point of the Question you ask? It isn't to support the coach or defend losing, the purpose of the question was to get readers to think beyond the coach and look at the multidimensional aspects behind why Syracuse football doesn't produce the consistent winner that we hope for each year.

 

[kingtidge]

The question is invalid.

If/when we hire a new coach, two key expectations will be:

1. Better recruiting and use of transfer portal

2. Better squad depth.

Obviously that can't happen overnight and you need a few years to build... Others seem to be arguing Syracuse can't do this period, regardless of HC... I do not think that is the case with the right hire and resources.

 

[Dr. Bill]

I have said this multiple times. The recruiting base was ignored under Robinson and Marone was starting to bring it back, but he left. Dino, who I thought was a good offensive mind, did not build on Marone's efforts as he didn't hire coaches with strong ties to the recruiting base and the recruiting base is now gone. Look at 2023 recruiting in the former recruiting base:

Syracuse got:

0 of the top 10 recruits in CT
0 of the top 5 recruits in DC
0 of the top 30 recruits in MD
0 of the top 10 recruits in MA
1 of the top 30 recruits in NJ
2 of the top 10 recruits in NY
0 of the top 50 recruits in OH
0 of the top 30 recruits in PA

Some on the board may disagree, but I think the best recruits Syracuse can get are in the recruiting base and that is how you make Syracuse more competitive with the top ACC schools.

 

[Newhouser]

What is the point of the Question you ask? It isn't to support the coach or defend losing, the purpose of the question was to get readers to think beyond the coach and look at the multidimensional aspects behind why Syracuse football doesn't produce the consistent winner that we hope for each year.

I wasn't responding to you or your OP.

 

[CousCuse]

What is the point of the Question you ask? It isn't to support the coach or defend losing, the purpose of the question was to get readers to think beyond the coach and look at the multidimensional aspects behind why Syracuse football doesn't produce the consistent winner that we hope for each year.

The coach is the single most important "multidimensional aspect"of a team. The coach is at least 80% of a teams success, maybe more.

 

[Dr. Bill]

The question is invalid.

If/when we hire a new coach, two key expectations will be:

1. Better recruiting and use of transfer portal

2. Better squad depth.

Obviously that can't happen overnight and you need a few years to build... Others seem to be arguing Syracuse can't do this period, regardless of HC... I do not think that is the case with the right hire and resources.

You mention The Right Hire and Resources! Better Resources is the key...We can't bring in talent via the Portal or HS recruiting with out cash money. Yesterday's game against Florida State is a prime example of the portal problem we have: We lose the talented DE , who played against us for Albany last year...Albany, which is right down the street...and he goes to Florida State..Why? More money! People on this thread keep ignoring that fact and want to just blame coaching. The people who say money doesn't solve problems...are the people who don't have money...or don't understand how money works.
Better funding addresses # 1 and #2 on your expectation list...even with the current coach.

 

[CousCuse]

You mention The Right Hire and Resources! Better Resources is the key...We can't bring in talent via the Portal or HS recruiting with out cash money. Yesterday's game against Florida State is a prime example of the portal problem we have: We lose the talented DE , who played against us for Albany last year...Albany, which is right down the street...and he goes to Florida State..Why? More money! People on this thread keep ignoring that fact and want to just blame coaching. The people who say money doesn't solve problems...are the people who don't have money...or don't understand how money works.
Better funding addresses # 1 and #2 on your expectation list...even with the current coach.

Maybe people who have money don't want to be part of the current program. Maybe they feel it would be a waste.