Does anyone have the courage to come up with an argument on how next year is better?

[Idiocuse22&]

Back in the late 90s, I did a project at a site in NJ (near the Meadowlands). In a conversation with a guy who worked there for years, I mentioned that I'd graduated from Syracuse. He was all excited to talk about Syracuse football, how good they were, and he was hoping his kid could get a football scholarship offer there. By 2006, NOBODY thought highly of Syracuse football - it was a dead program. It took 6,7 years - at most - to completely destroy a good reputation in the northeast.

Basketball started from an even better spot from a brand perspective - but how long has it been since Syracuse basketball has been relevant nationally? Not "sneak in to the NCAA tournament" relevant - good enough to have legit Final Four aspirations. There's probably 20 teams in that category any given year.

The thing that worries me the most is I don't feel any sense of urgency from the University...its like they think the basketball brand can withstand numerous bad years in a row and recover. I'm not sure that's the case...and we're close to being DePaul levels of irrelevant already.

Im with you on everything you've said other than being close to DePaul in irrelevence.
OMG! I hope not! Maybe I am wrong but I think it would take another 15 straight losing records to get there with a few 3-25s and a couple seasons with 0 wins in ACC.
We for sure are in a rough patch but I think if you ask a casual college BBall fan not from Syracuse how good is Syracuse? ... not bad...pretty good & a couple they sucks.
I mean we have won 20+ games in a season something like 24 out of the last 30.
But yes, the University should have a sense of urgency to make some changes.

 

[Chip]

Absolutely.

So did my team in gym class.

Is there any additional context that you'd like to include?

Nope. Just trying to figure out if we're losing because we have bad players or because we have a bad coach. I assumed it was both, but when you say others are doing far more with far far less, that would imply it's not really a talent issue.

All is not completely lost then.

 

[djcon57]

Nope. Just trying to figure out if we're losing because we have bad players or because we have a bad coach. I assumed it was both, but when you say others are doing far more with far far less, that would imply it's not really a talent issue.

All is not completely lost then.

We have the talent to be better than 10-13.

We don't have the talent to be a tourney team.

What the confusion?

 

[Chip]

We have the talent to be better than 10-13.

We don't have the talent to be a tourney team.

What the confusion?

Assuming you guys are all on the same page, that's much clearer, so thank you.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Nope. Just trying to figure out if we're losing because we have bad players or because we have a bad coach. I assumed it was both, but when you say others are doing far more with far far less, that would imply it's not really a talent issue.

All is not completely lost then.

Unserious comment gets unserious response.

Just say what you want to say.

 

[djcon57]

Assuming you guys are all on the same page, that's much clearer, so thank you.

Is this the type pissing contest you were referring to?

 

[Chip]

Is this the type pissing contest you were referring to?

I was being serious. I wanted to know what you guys really thought. And you cleared it up.

 

[Cusefan95]

Im with you on everything you've said other than being close to DePaul in irrelevence.
OMG! I hope not! Maybe I am wrong but I think it would take another 15 straight losing records to get there with a few 3-25s and a couple seasons with 0 wins in ACC.
We for sure are in a rough patch but I think if you ask a casual college BBall fan not from Syracuse how good is Syracuse? ... not bad...pretty good & a couple they sucks.
I mean we have won 20+ games in a season something like 24 out of the last 30.
But yes, the University should have a sense of urgency to make some changes.

Indiana is probably the best comp for us right now…30 years ago they were a no-doubt blue blood. It’s arguable they’ve fallen off that list. I doubt Syracuse will drop so far folks can pencil us in to last place every year like DePaul - worst case we should still be able to stumble into a Sweet Sixteen once in a while

 

[IthacaMatt]

And not 20 wins NIT better...

There has to be a new assistant.
We have to keep Moore, Freeman, and Petar.

JJ is not good enough to be our "star", but he would be good as like a 2nd offensive option.

A lot of problems could be solved with a really elite PG from the portal, with the whole package.
And then we need a very good portal center who can protect the rim.

We need to institute a functional offense. I would like to see a high-low double post on offense with Portal Center on the low block, and Donnie Freeman at the high post.

I'd like to see back-door cuts, screens along the baseline, screens for cutters crossing the lane. Much more motion, much less standing around. Functional high-ball screen offense.

On defense - where's the tempo? Where are the changes? Play some press and fall back into a 2-3 zone like Pitino used to do at Louisville. Other times, pick them up 3/4 court man-to-man. Guys play hard or they come out, period.

Donnie Freeman has to get stronger, or forget about it.

There is so much to work on. Next year is do or die.

 

[cusefan88]

Lots of people will check out for next season. The diehards will give it 5-10 games. Autry is coaching for his life and I hope that is reflected from tipoff next year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It is a tough one. Coach P lost too much of the fan base over time. But it was still a .500 team when he left... which in football terms is like being a bubble team (IMO). It was GERG that dropped an anvil on the program by trying to force the existing players to run his offense, rather than what they were good at and then being horrible. Marrone brought us back to Coach P at the end level, then Shafer went back down. Dino was up and down, ultimately fairly close to .500 overall. Fran has a vision of how to be elite... rather than just a bowl team.

JB ran it a little more to the ground by dropping us down at/below a bubble team. I think some of our best teams under JB might have lost last night. We lost no shortage of home games to top 5 programs throughout his career. Losing to Duke, this Duke team, is nothing to be ashamed about. Any more than losing to Georgetown with Ewing, etc.

Red has the potential to be a GERG... or he has the potential to be us back to being a bubble team. It is the limited upside that probably makes things worse... there is no "feel" that Red can make us elite again. Methinks that to be elite you need to do something very good... so good that the opponent knows what you are going to do, but you just do it too good. Everyone knew we were going to be 2-3 zone, but few teams had the combination of talent and coaching to defeat it. The difference is that when we were recruiting athletes for the zone, we forced teams to beat us at a game we were trying to dictate. Occasionally, some backup guard would get hot from 3 and upset us. Occasionally, we would run into teams that could dictate their will by too much talent to care about what defense we were playing. But, by and large, teams had to play good games to beat the zone.

So I think we need an identity again. If it is going back to the 2-3 zone so be it. If it is playing 10 players and pressing the whole game.. so be it. If it is some sort of offensive scheme that other teams are not used to.. so be it. SOMETHING. And then recruit/portal to fit that system. Red does not seem to have a thing. So who knows if the pieces he is getting will fit into his non-existent system. If we knew the system, we might be able to think positively that things are moving in the right direction.

Excellent post. I agree that there is no feeling that this team can ever be better than merely average under Red. Sorry, but it's just not there, and we have a sample size of 50 games already.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is what I would love to hear more about from Red. Literally the only answer I have ever heard is that he wants to run. If that is true, recruiting the players we currently have makes no sense at all towards that goal. And what is our defensive identity supposed to be? To some extent, the lack of identity bothers me more than the poor results.

And we have yet to see it, despite actually having a good rebounding team this year!
That is actually one of Cuffe's strengths, running the break and attacking the rim in the open floor.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Nothing about this year has led me to believe next year will be better. All of the things about NIL being improved, having a GM, etc., are great -- but having a head coach who didn't realize the talent on the team couldn't compete in a VERY mediocre ACC is the thing I can't and won't get over.

No question, your pre-season prediction was a good one.
I was an optimist, and thought this team could win 24 games, looking at the talent on paper.

Two McD's AAs, best 3 pt shooter in the ACC, big physical center w 3 NCAA appearances.
Three more guys who were stars on their mid-major teams, and any one of whom could have been Elijah Hughes, John Gillon or Rick Jackson, but were not.
4 star shooting guard who was 1st team all NYC Catholic League, and 1st team on the Adidas AAU circuit.

Is this a team that is the worst team in the ACC? Or has the coach massive under-achieved?
Yes, Judah and Maliq Brown were the best players on last year's team.
But wasn't Chris Bell supposed to get better? Shouldn't JJ have had easier shot opportunities?

I still believe the talent is decent, not elite, but not as bad as they have played.
The coaching deficiency, to me, has been glaring, and the obvious problem.

He hasn't handled the rotation predictably at all this season.
He has been stubborn and unfair to people, and then swung strongly in the opposite direction.
A number of players have a good reason to be upset with how their minutes have been handled.

No offensive structure is self-evident. Lack of effort on defense is self-evident.
He said he wants to play fast, but hasn't all season. And we're a good defensive rebounding team, finally!

Lack of changes, in-game, or in-season, is also self-evident.
Lack of feel for when to call time-outs; lack of feel for what guys fit on the floor together versus the opponent in that moment.

The team has not gotten better. He's just not a very good coach. I wish he was, but we're just killing time.