Does anyone have the courage to come up with an argument on how next year is better?

[kingtidge]

So we were behind on NIL and couldn't get the players we needed to reload to be competitive.

We're changing that next year.

OK.

Also, we need to approach our coaching situation like before there was NIL, because that's just what we should do at Syracuse.

"We’ve never fired coaches with multiple years on their contract here. I don’t foresee that happening. I don’t think it should happen." -JAB

So 2 more years minimum as Bulldog04 has been saying for a while.

OK.

At least we have some official confirmation on what to expect, assuming JB isn't going rogue and just "saying stuff".

 

[Scooch]

Red's got a long way to go but its mostly about talent.

If it’s mostly about talent, why did the staff miss so egregiously on that front? I’m asking sincerely.

From what people posted here in the offseason, the staff’s top target was Lampkin and they got him.

They were excited about Carlos. Genuinely excited. People can try to retcon that all they want now, but in the summer they reported that Autry thought the kid was going to be a big time player for us.

Clearly they had big plans for Bell.

So the staff, by their own words and actions, believed they had a talented team. A team that could roll 10 deep (another thing straight from their mouths).

And yet here we are. A team bereft of talent, apparently.

I’m left to think that the only hope for this program is that Alex Kline is the next Theo Epstein. No one else seems to be able to evaluate talent particularly well.

 

[Red2003]

Long rant coming as I look at the ACC standings. ONE Ranked ACC team going into the stretch. I knock Autry for a lot of things with coaching and talent selection but here's where I cool off on putting it all on him. The huge # of people in the ACC, OUR administration, OUR media and everywhere else that didn't see this coming is just ridiculous.

In what world do we pay 30% on a dollar for a product and expect a 100% return. That's what we did while the SEC and so many other teams looked around their league and did the opposite.

It's really clear that the entirety of the ACC minus the top 3 ACC, Clemson, Louisville, and maybe SMU went in to the season like we did. Spend a fraction on NIL, coach up your teams and sneak onto the bubble. Just thinking it's biz as usual cuz we're the ACC right and we perform well in tournaments and always have.

I guess Wildhack and these other dozen hack ACC AD's and coaches all just you know chatted and said we're all spending 2 mil, going with mediocre coaching and let's see what happens. Guess They couldn't pick up the phone, they couldn't read the news and see the bottom feeder SEC/B1G programs outspending us by 5X.

And Where was the fire alarm being pulled by someone outside the program even. I listened to almost all our Cuse media folks talk about the makings of a tourney team in the preseason. Do they not know how to Math or pick up the phone or do some actually reporting and realize that oh yea we got major problems.

Now here we are in the ACC, 1 lock granted a Natty contender, prob get 2 8-10 seeds in and then a playin game for our 4th best team. Sure you have Wake and Stanford and 2-3 other teams that will outperform the others with better than average coaching and talent selection but who cares.

 

[Sherman20]

So we were behind on NIL and couldn't get the players we needed to reload to be competitive.

We're changing that next year.

OK.

Also, we need to approach our coaching situation like before there was NIL, because that's just what we should do at Syracuse.

"We’ve never fired coaches with multiple years on their contract here. I don’t foresee that happening. I don’t think it should happen." -JAB

So 2 more years minimum as Bulldog04 has been saying for a while.

OK.

At least we have some official confirmation on what to expect, assuming JB isn't going rogue and just "saying stuff".

If Red fails next year, there’s no way he’ll be back for a fourth year. JB sez things. He’s also an old man who has a hard time accepting how the college basketball landscape has changed, and some of us can relate. We will fire a coach with years left on their contract if need be. We haven’t had any other coach besides JB in basketball for nearly half a century!

 

[RF2044]

Red's got a long way to go but its mostly about talent.

A good coach would get a lot more productivity out of this group of player.

Your take after the Duke debacle that even Coach K couldn't get our team to succeed was like a masterclass in delusion.

Time to stop the rationalization, dispense with confirmatory bias, and face reality.

 

[RyanCuse44]

I think you're right and wrong.

I think $2.5M was PLENTY. They spent inappropriately.

Quite frankly, that speaks to how out of touch the staff under JB was about recruiting. JB didn't want transfers. Didn't want to use NIL. And the continuation of the staff under Autry just continued the trend.

I think Kline will help a lot. I think they now know they need to look differently at that area to bring in talent that can play, specifically at the guard position.

All that being said, I still don't trust Autry as being the coach in any situation or circumstance.

Maybe by spending more wisely, we will have players that can excel in the middle of the ACC pack. I still don't think the coaching will be good enough to give SU men's basketball a chance to be in the upper level of ACC play. But I'm resigned to the fact that we're going to see another year of status quo.

I agree. All I see is Woodson Part 2 next year for SU if Red is allowed to stay on.

 

[Red2003]

If it’s mostly about talent, why did the staff miss so egregiously on that front? I’m asking sincerely.

From what people posted here in the offseason, the staff’s top target was Lampkin and they got him.

They were excited about Carlos. Genuinely excited. People can try to retcon that all they want now, but in the summer they reported that Autry thought the kid was going to be a big time player for us.

Clearly they had big plans for Bell.

So the staff, by their own words and actions, believed they had a talented team. A team that could roll 10 deep (another thing straight from their mouths).

And yet here we are. A team bereft of talent, apparently.

I’m left to think that the only hope for this program is that Alex Kline is the next Theo Epstein. No one else seems to be able to evaluate talent particularly well.

while i generally agree. I disagree on Carlos, that was coach speak for we got someone after the guy we didn't get bailed, just trying to save face. Bell you're right and Eddie while not a full bust was not a difference maker. I tend to believe the guys never bought in from the beginning and yes that's on Autry. You pay for quality though and we didn't pay.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Lots of people will check out for next season. The diehards will give it 5-10 games. Autry is coaching for his life and I hope that is reflected from tipoff next year.

People don't watch now and won't watch next year because they're just not interesting to watch. The brand of basketball, if there is a brand or system, or are any of the players, are fun or appealing.

 

[kingtidge]

while i generally agree. I disagree on Carlos, that was coach speak for we got someone after the guy we didn't get bailed, just trying to save face. Bell you're right and Eddie while not a full bust was not a difference maker. I tend to believe the guys never bought in from the beginning and yes that's on Autry. You pay for quality though and we didn't pay.

They're were ITK's on here saying the exact opposite about Carlos when we got his transfer... That the staff was very excited with him and thought he would be a real game changer for us.

Now either that was not true or the goalposts are being moved.

 

[Ozone!]

James Arthur Boeheim,​

Like him or not, he knows basketball and sports at Syracuse. He’s on record as saying that Red is a good coach and he will be returning for next season. Now you might not like this, however, it’s the most likely situation for next season.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If it’s mostly about talent, why did the staff miss so egregiously on that front? I’m asking sincerely.

From what people posted here in the offseason, the staff’s top target was Lampkin and they got him.

They were excited about Carlos. Genuinely excited. People can try to retcon that all they want now, but in the summer they reported that Autry thought the kid was going to be a big time player for us.

Clearly they had big plans for Bell.

So the staff, by their own words and actions, believed they had a talented team. A team that could roll 10 deep (another thing straight from their mouths).

And yet here we are. A team bereft of talent, apparently.

I’m left to think that the only hope for this program is that Alex Kline is the next Theo Epstein. No one else seems to be able to evaluate talent particularly well.

There are at least 10 or 20 people on this board who can evaluate talent better than Autry.

 

[Scooch]

They're were ITK's on here saying the exact opposite about Carlos when we got his transfer... That the staff was very excited with him and thought he would be a real game changer for us.

Now either that was not true or the goalposts are being moved.

Precisely. There were reports that Autry said Carlos was a big time player. Not in April, but in August. There were practice-goers here raving about him.

Look, we all get things wrong. Sometimes you just don't know until the games start and these guys have to play under the bright lights.

But the goalposts have definitely been moved over the past 6 months. Lots of retconning given the results of the season.

 

[IthacaMatt]

James Arthur Boeheim,​

Like him or not, he knows basketball and sports at Syracuse. He’s on record as saying that Red is a good coach and he will be returning for next season. Now you might not like this, however, it’s the most likely situation for next season.

I take the 2nd half of JB's statement to be true.

 

[kingtidge]

James Arthur Boeheim,​

Like him or not, he knows basketball and sports at Syracuse. He’s on record as saying that Red is a good coach and he will be returning for next season. Now you might not like this, however, it’s the most likely situation for next season.

100% and he did not mince words yesterday... This is HIS legacy.

History is being written live, as always.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So we were behind on NIL and couldn't get the players we needed to reload to be competitive.

We're changing that next year.

OK.

Also, we need to approach our coaching situation like before there was NIL, because that's just what we should do at Syracuse.

"We’ve never fired coaches with multiple years on their contract here. I don’t foresee that happening. I don’t think it should happen." -JAB

So 2 more years minimum as Bulldog04 has been saying for a while.

OK.

At least we have some official confirmation on what to expect, assuming JB isn't going rogue and just "saying stuff".

So, this confirms that Wildhack gave a rookie coach with zero head coaching experience at least a four year contract. That is an incredibly poor decision to make. I wonder if Fran Brown got a four or five year contract?

 

[jncuse]

"Its mostly about talent"
Let's take that comment at face value whether correct or not.

1. The coach made that call on that talent.
2. "Mostly" doesn't mean all. So if game day and in year coaching is a part of the issue, and talent gathered is an issue, then we still have a big problem folks.

 

[FrancoPizza]

So, this confirms that Wildhack gave a rookie coach with zero head coaching experience at least a four year contract.

My question is WHY. If John pitched a 3-year deal and red didn’t like it… where was he going to go? Were we in a bidding war that even insiders didn’t know about?

 

[wiCuse]

A good coach would get a lot more productivity out of this group of player.

Your take after the Duke debacle that even Coach K couldn't get our team to succeed was like a masterclass in delusion.

Time to stop the rationalization, dispense with confirmatory bias, and face reality.

This is spot on. If Red could coach at all, we would be saying "Bell isn't shooting the 3 well this year, but Red has him doing x, y and z to contribute to the team." That's called coaching.

It would be nice if Red was more accountable. The lowest hanging fruit in college sports is NIL. Red is deflecting to save his job, which I can understand to a degree. As many have already stated, we had enough money to construct a winning roster going into this season, but Red cannot identify portal talent. Everything has been taken off of his plate except coaching and how is that going...

 

[Red2003]

They're were ITK's on here saying the exact opposite about Carlos when we got his transfer... That the staff was very excited with him and thought he would be a real game changer for us.

Now either that was not true or the goalposts are being moved.

How can it be true when most of the portal window they’re after Leffew and then Carlos is the after thought?

Think of it like this. You offer someone a job. They reject you. You take the next best candidate. You don’t walk into the office talking about how you struck out on your first choice. You sing the praises of what you got whether that’s true or not.

 

[phil77]

If guys think the reason we are getting blown out 16 times in less than two years is because of talent you are crazy and just deflecting. If you watch the games and think this is a well coached team all we need is more talent then you are crazy and just deflecting.

 

[RF2044]

If guys think the reason we are getting blown out 16 times in less than two years is because of talent you are crazy and just deflecting. If you watch the games and think this is a well coached team all we need is more talent then you are crazy and just deflecting.

It's just the newest excuse, a narrative to shift blame away from where it actually belongs.

 

[Red2003]

This is spot on. If Red could coach at all, we would be saying "Bell isn't shooting the 3 well this year, but Red has him doing x, y and z to contribute to the team." That's called coaching.

It would be nice if Red was more accountable. The lowest hanging fruit in college sports is NIL. Red is deflecting to save his job, which I can understand to a degree. As many have already stated, we had enough money to construct a winning roster going into this season, but Red cannot identify portal talent. Everything has been taken off of his plate except coaching and how is that going...

We spent the same as the rest of the middle of the pack ACC. That is not enough money to make the tourney and that is painfully obvious right now.

Yes that should mean we are in the mid to top half of the ACC. We are not near that so that’s on the Autry.

I’m going to keep shouting it. There are zero people here that would not take the Louisville turnaround right now. It cost them being #7 in nil spend across the whole sport. We were 50’s I heard. They brought in an amazing coaching staff and paid well.

Guess what tho they’re not top 25 and projected only as a 7 seed which I think most of you would say is not good enough for Cuse because back in the day that was considered a bad year.

Spending what we did on NIL this year is not being serious for a turnaround and if it happens again we might as well slap a sign on the dome that says welcome we used to care about basketball but now we’re an unserious program.

 

[phil77]

It's just the newest excuse, a narrative to shift blame away from Red.

If the reason we lose is because we don't have enough talent compared to the other teams then it goes without saying the ONLY reason we win is because we have more talent than the other team so RED doesn't really matter one way or another. He shouldn't get credit for any wins if he gets all the blame for losses deflected from him.

 

[Red2003]

If guys think the reason we are getting blown out 16 times in less than two years is because of talent you are crazy and just deflecting. If you watch the games and think this is a well coached team all we need is more talent then you are crazy and just deflecting.

It’s both coaching and money. Have you even looked at the $’s involved? This isn’t just a million bucks difference. We’re talking 5-10 million we got outspent.

Autry is for sure a lower tier inexperienced coach but right now there’s 14 other ACC coaches in the same boat. I don’t think every one of them is complete trash.

I think they look like trash though when they get on the court some games against rosters that have 5 players getting paid a mil each and they’re paying 1 guy on their team a few hundred grand and the rest are getting 5 figures

 

[RF2044]

We spent the same as the rest of the middle of the pack ACC. That is not enough money to make the tourney and that is painfully obvious right now.

Yes that should mean we are in the mid to top half of the ACC. We are not near that so that’s on the Autry.

I’m going to keep shouting it. There are zero people here that would not take the Louisville turnaround right now. It cost them being #7 in nil spend across the whole sport. We were 50’s I heard. They brought in an amazing coaching staff and paid well.

Guess what tho they’re not too 25 and projected only as a 7 seed which I think most of you would say is not good enough for Cuse because back in the day that was considered a bad year.

Spending what we did on NIL this year is not being serious for a turnaround and if it happens again we might as well slap a sign on the dome that says welcome we used to care about basketball but now we’re an unserious program.

So what, they aren't top 25?

They have the amazing coaching staff in place, and the foundation in place needed to build.

We're still declining, and the reasons are obvious. Focusing on NIL is akin to worrying about the symptoms, not the actual problems.