Does anyone have the courage to come up with an argument on how next year is better?

[007]

I am not disagreeing with you on what should happen.

All I am saying is what should happen and what will happen are two different things.

The Donger is on record here with his sources saying year 3 AND 4 are guaranteed for Red, hence why I don't think JB was just saying stuff.

But agreed that if season tix renewals crater and the dome is drawing 5-8K actual attendances consistently on home games next year, never say never. You can't stick with a big "Red in the Red" revenue deficit like that. But deficit maths is the only out I think.

The "Donger"??

 

[kingtidge]

The "Donger"??

Bulldog04

He spent this year's holidays on the board with a modified username "Bulldong04"

 

[Red2003]

Bulldog04

He spent this year's holidays on the board with a modified username "Bulldong04"

Same say he formally changed his real name to that he liked it so much.

 

[kingtidge]

Same say he formally changed his real name to that he liked it so much.

 

[CuseIn282xx]

You forgot Kardashians in the stands. Last night would have been a much better game had there been a few celebs sitting courtside playing on their phones.

Joe Biden ain't doing nothing now. (I'll just leave that there as a straight line...)

 

[AcAndAc]

Good stuff. Here's the kick I'm on today.

-Bell the best 3 point shooter in the ACC last year played so terribly he had to be benched.
-JC played so terribly at the 1 that we had to put in a Freshman Shooting Guard to replace him.
-Donnie we got 15 games out of
-JJ missed 7 games
-Eddie back issues and conditioning concerns

Then last year down goes Naheem, Benny booted, JT lost his shot. Not alot of people remember but Judah was suspended in Nov over whatever, Q couldn't even pretend to go to class...

Autry has alot of faults and should get the blame but he's also 2 years in and has not got through a season without major injuries and multiple players turning out to have all kinds of issues.

I really hope we get to see a season next year where Autry's starting 5 is actually healthy and functioning the way he thinks it should. I think it will bring closure one way or another to alot of endless what ifs on Autry.

I may not think he's a good coach personally but I'm not going to lose my mind giving him a 3rd chance.

3 strikes though and he's out, I don't care if the whole starting 5 is walking around in Donnie Freeman boots next year either, this is business and if he doesn't perform he's out.

3 strikes... I think so too. But if the admin was to say next year is a make it or break it year... how the heck would he be able to recruit? You have to talk the talk on him being here long term. And if next year is a flop, then he is gone. As much as he has failed to show anything, it would look pretty bad to fire him after 2 years absent a scandal.

It took JB 30 years or so to have a 14 loss season... but he averaged 14.5 the last 8 (excluding 2020). JB was 33-32 his last two years. Red right now is sitting at 31-25 over his two years. (Edit: JB was 51-46 his last three full years--5 games over .500, still worse than Red). Can you fire a guy who has done BETTER winning percentage wise than his predecessor?? As much as the product is poor, this is just reality. Sorry.

 

[tptcuse]

Good stuff. Here's the kick I'm on today.

-Bell the best 3 point shooter in the ACC last year played so terribly he had to be benched.
-JC played so terribly at the 1 that we had to put in a Freshman Shooting Guard to replace him.
-Donnie we got 15 games out of
-JJ missed 7 games
-Eddie back issues and conditioning concerns

Then last year down goes Naheem, Benny booted, JT lost his shot. Not alot of people remember but Judah was suspended in Nov over whatever, Q couldn't even pretend to go to class...

Autry has alot of faults and should get the blame but he's also 2 years in and has not got through a season without major injuries and multiple players turning out to have all kinds of issues.

I really hope we get to see a season next year where Autry's starting 5 is actually healthy and functioning the way he thinks it should. I think it will bring closure one way or another to alot of endless what ifs on Autry.

I may not think he's a good coach personally but I'm not going to lose my mind giving him a 3rd chance.

3 strikes though and he's out, I don't care if the whole starting 5 is walking around in Donnie Freeman boots next year either, this is business and if he doesn't perform he's out.

And Chance was supposed to be a factor both years.

 

[Cheriehoop]

GMac was added to a quality nucleus of sophomores in Warrick / Forth / Pace [and senior Duany]. And Melo was a superior recruit who took that mix to the next level.

I can get behind the notion that you can have outstanding results without having a team of elite recruits.

But you have to have either a strong offensive / defensive concept, or superior talent, to excel. And right now, we have neither.

Agree and competitive players who just absolutely hate losing.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The Donger is on record here with his sources saying year 3 AND 4 are guaranteed for Red, hence why I don't think JB was just saying stuff.

Man, that's just a terrible job of negotiation.
That is some seriously fan boy amateur BS.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Good stuff. Here's the kick I'm on today.

-Bell the best 3 point shooter in the ACC last year played so terribly he had to be benched.
-JC played so terribly at the 1 that we had to put in a Freshman Shooting Guard to replace him.
-Donnie we got 15 games out of
-JJ missed 7 games
-Eddie back issues and conditioning concerns

Then last year down goes Naheem, Benny booted, JT lost his shot. Not alot of people remember but Judah was suspended in Nov over whatever, Q couldn't even pretend to go to class...

Autry has alot of faults and should get the blame but he's also 2 years in and has not got through a season without major injuries and multiple players turning out to have all kinds of issues.

I really hope we get to see a season next year where Autry's starting 5 is actually healthy and functioning the way he thinks it should. I think it will bring closure one way or another to alot of endless what ifs on Autry.

I may not think he's a good coach personally but I'm not going to lose my mind giving him a 3rd chance.

3 strikes though and he's out, I don't care if the whole starting 5 is walking around in Donnie Freeman boots next year either, this is business and if he doesn't perform he's out.

See, if 40% of the team is in a constant state of mutiny, you're just not managing the roster well.

 

[RF2044]

See, if 40% of the team is in a constant state of mutiny, you're just not managing the roster well.

That's the thing. Let's just say that he took over, and the players weren't willing to get with the program. It happens; the majority of them signed up to play for a different coach, not unreasonable to think that they might balk on a new culture getting implemented that requires them to do different things. So maybe some of them tune the new coach out, or treat him like the substitute teacher.

But that was last year. When you have those dust ups, you weed out the problems, and move forward with guys willing to get with the program.

What's the excuse in year 2, beyond maybe just that the head coach can't manage the locker room?

 

[FloridaCuse]

Here's what's a mystery to me -- why would Carmelo want his son, who I assume he would like to play in the NBA, to be coached by this coaching staff? If anyone on here has answered that question I missed it. Is it because of loyalty? Is it because he'll be able to play more minutes here than elsewhere? Or, does he see something many on here don't? Or, is there something else afoot that we won't find out about until sometime down the road? It just doesn't add up right now.

 

[Sbucketball]

See, if 40% of the team is in a constant state of mutiny, you're just not managing the roster well.

I've been saying this since last year and for whatever reason people get upset about it. It seems very possible to me that Red lacks control over the locker room. Part of the job is managing tough personalities and their camps.

 

[RF2044]

I've been saying this since last year and for whatever reason people get upset about it. It seems very possible to me that Red lacks control over the locker room. Part of the job is managing tough personalities and their camps.

Yet another area where Red doesn't demonstrate the capabilities needed to succeed at the P4 level -- along with:

• Demonstrating basic command of in-game X's and O's / substitution patterns
• Implementation of functional systems on both sides of the ball
• Teaching the game / helping players improve over time

 

[Scooch]

Good stuff. Here's the kick I'm on today.

-Bell the best 3 point shooter in the ACC last year played so terribly he had to be benched.
-JC played so terribly at the 1 that we had to put in a Freshman Shooting Guard to replace him.
-Donnie we got 15 games out of
-JJ missed 7 games
-Eddie back issues and conditioning concerns

Then last year down goes Naheem, Benny booted, JT lost his shot. Not alot of people remember but Judah was suspended in Nov over whatever, Q couldn't even pretend to go to class...

Autry has alot of faults and should get the blame but he's also 2 years in and has not got through a season without major injuries and multiple players turning out to have all kinds of issues.

I really hope we get to see a season next year where Autry's starting 5 is actually healthy and functioning the way he thinks it should. I think it will bring closure one way or another to alot of endless what ifs on Autry.

I may not think he's a good coach personally but I'm not going to lose my mind giving him a 3rd chance.

3 strikes though and he's out, I don't care if the whole starting 5 is walking around in Donnie Freeman boots next year either, this is business and if he doesn't perform he's out.

You'll be waiting a long time if you want to see a full SU hoops season without any drama. I've been a fan since I stepped on the Hill in 1991, and that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Scooch]

Here's what's a mystery to me -- why would Carmelo want his son, who I assume he would like to play in the NBA, to be coached by this coaching staff? If anyone on here has answered that question I missed it. Is it because of loyalty? Is it because he'll be able to play more minutes here than elsewhere? Or, does he see something many on here don't? Or, is there something else afoot that we won't find out about until sometime down the road? It just doesn't add up right now.

Honestly, I suspect Melo mostly just wanted his kid to go to Syracuse. And Kiyan seems eager to follow his Dad's legacy, which is a tall order and not something every teenager would be eager to do.

Kiyan can get all the help he needs pursuing his NBA dream. It's not like Team Melo can't afford private coaching, nutritionists, and the like. This ain't your typical teenage ballplayer here. I mean, do we think Lebron found USC to have the best staff for Bronny to develop his NBA game? Of course not. He didn't need that.

Red's a great guy and he's currently the SU coach. I'm sure he and Melo get along great. Not sure it's any deeper than that.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Yet another area where Red doesn't demonstrate the capabilities needed to succeed at the P4 level -- along with:

• Demonstrating basic command of in-game X's and O's / substitution patterns
• Implementation of functional systems on both sides of the ball
• Teaching the game / helping players improve over time

 

[007]

Honestly, I suspect Melo mostly just wanted his kid to go to Syracuse. And Kiyan seems eager to follow his Dad's legacy, which is a tall order and not something every teenager would be eager to do.

Kiyan can get all the help he needs pursuing his NBA dream. It's not like Team Melo can't afford private coaching, nutritionists, and the like. This ain't your typical teenage ballplayer here. I mean, do we think Lebron found USC to have the best staff for Bronny to develop his NBA game? Of course not. He didn't need that.

Red's a great guy and he's currently the SU coach. I'm sure he and Melo get along great. Not sure it's any deeper than that.

A little deeper. Bulldog04 can confirm this (I think), but there is a belief in the Melo camp that Red will have the talent to fully play the style he envisions given key portal additions (5 and a lock down "defender"), the freshmen, JJ, Donnie, and EM.

Whether we agree with this or not from a coaching chops perspective is a different debate. Regardless, Red will be getting at least another year and that type of roster should put him in "prove it" mode.

 

[Red2003]

I've been saying this since last year and for whatever reason people get upset about it. It seems very possible to me that Red lacks control over the locker room. Part of the job is managing tough personalities and their camps.

I agree. I think that's the most reasonable take.

 

[Red2003]

Honestly, I suspect Melo mostly just wanted his kid to go to Syracuse. And Kiyan seems eager to follow his Dad's legacy, which is a tall order and not something every teenager would be eager to do.

Kiyan can get all the help he needs pursuing his NBA dream. It's not like Team Melo can't afford private coaching, nutritionists, and the like. This ain't your typical teenage ballplayer here. I mean, do we think Lebron found USC to have the best staff for Bronny to develop his NBA game? Of course not. He didn't need that.

Red's a great guy and he's currently the SU coach. I'm sure he and Melo get along great. Not sure it's any deeper than that.

Agree and people need to separate themselves from this one and done mentality because of the family name. Kiyan I expect if he does make the NBA will have a very long journey.

 

[Scooch]

A little deeper. Bulldog04 can confirm this (I think), but there is a belief in the Melo camp that Red will have the talent to fully play the style he envisions given key portal additions (5 and a lock down "defender"), the freshmen, JJ, Donnie, and EM.

Whether we agree with this or not from a coaching chops perspective is a different debate. Regardless, Red will be getting at least another year and that type of roster should put him in "prove it" mode.

Great insight, thanks!

I'll forever be bewildered at why Autry brought in guys like Lampkin and the Low Major 3 to play this "style" he supposedly wants to deploy.

Here's to hoping he gets it right on take three.

 

[RF2044]

Great insight, thanks!

I'll forever be bewildered at why Autry brought in guys like Lampkin and the Low Major 3 to play this "style" he supposedly wants to deploy.

Here's to hoping he gets it right on take three.

Simple -- because we had no low-post game, we saw [in-conference] how impactful having one of those wide load centers who could score down low was at driving NC State's late season push last year, and Lampkin / Colorado showed out in the NCAA tournament last off-season.

So we targeted Lampkin to fill that void.

I get that anyone who watched any film could see that he was a minus-defender and negligible shot blocker.

 

[kingtidge]

Simple -- because we had no low-post game, we saw [in-conference] how impactful having one of those wide load centers who could score down low was at driving NC State's late season push last year, and Lampkin / Colorado showed out in the NCAA tournament last off-season.

So we targeted Lampkin to fill that void.

I get that anyone who watched any film could see that he was a minus-defender and negligible shot blocker.

NC State was a pedestrian team last year that sleptwalk through the regular season then decided they would expend maximum effort once the conference tournament started... and low and behold, they were actually a good team when they decided to play hard.

Where was that effort for the regular season??

I saw the interview with Burns post-NCAA where he basically said the players got together and decided they were going to give maximum effort starting with the conference tournament and it carried them on their run.

I dunno, I guess I question trying to copy and bottle that genie of a team that took the regular season off at 80% effort.

It's nice they put together a late season run and all. We've been there when the zone befuddles non-conference teams in the tournament.

But playing hard consistently isn't optional in my book. It has to be rule 1 in any cultural overhaul. Watching Carlos at the end of the BC game had me thinking, "Where has this defensive effort been all year??" He was really moving fast and locking down on defense.

 

[RF2044]

NC State was a pedestrian team last year that sleptwalk through the regular season then decided they would expend maximum effort once the conference tournament started... and low and behold, they were actually a good team when they decided to play hard.

Where was that effort for the regular season??

I saw the interview with Burns post-NCAA where he basically said the players got together and decided they were going to give maximum effort starting with the conference tournament and it carried them on their run.

I dunno, I guess I question trying to copy and bottle that genie of a team that took the regular season off at 80% effort.

It's nice they put together a late season run and all. We've been there when the zone befuddles non-conference teams in the tournament.

But playing hard consistently isn't optional in my book. It has to be rule 1 in any cultural overhaul. Watching Carlos at the end of the BC game had me thinking, "Where has this defensive effort been all year??" He was really moving fast and locking down on defense.

Just to clarify, I wasn't implying that we were trying to emulate NC State.

Just that getting a big, strong, wide load type of center who was different than the stringbean types we'd targeted for a long time was what our coaches wanted to do. In no small part because of what Burns did last year at the end of the year.

So they went out and quickly targeted a similar type of player in Lampkin, who'd had his own share of postseason success in last year's NCAAT.

 

[007]

Great insight, thanks!

I'll forever be bewildered at why Autry brought in guys like Lampkin and the Low Major 3 to play this "style" he supposedly wants to deploy.

Here's to hoping he gets it right on take three.

Without a doubt Red targeted Lampkin as the primary option in the portal. I'm guessing the staff thought his impact on offense and rebounding would outweigh the negatives. They risked the lion's share of the NIL on that belief.

LaFew and Richmond were targets we were outbid for. My understanding is that we held a spot for Reynolds in case he decided to enter. Had we added 1-2 of those guys maybe the Lampkin risk would have been mitigated, at least somewhat. Davis was a depth/toughness/size/experience add.

Carlos and Taylor were likely plan B adds as affordable options to fill out the roster.