Does Dickie V Know Something We Don't?

[OrangeDW]

Most of the discussion has been on how this affects the fans, so far.

More than anything, I want Cuse to WIN this game. Changing our own court and putting our team in a brand new situation is not the smartest thing. And while the fans aren't exactly on top of the court as it is, this would seem to move them even further away. We would be lessening our own home court advantage. If we go through all the trouble and make this game a big spectacle by moving the court, and get beat? That will really suck.

 

[rrlbees]

My fear is that everyone ends up with worse seats. If you're further from the court, it's not really equivalent. See my earlier post about my 80 year old parents.

Most will be worse, some a lot worse. I know it is impossible to give me anything comparable just based on the shape of the Dome. I figure a good 20-30 yards. I have no problem putting the court in the middle. They can do it for every game if they want. It is their program. But you make it known before it is done and how and where people's seats will be different. You don't do it after people have ponied up for the program when it is the biggest game of the year. Bait and switch is usually not a good business move.


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[longtimefan]

I bet there would be less lousy seats than with the record breaking crowds in the current setup

I might take that bet. I would guess that there are at least 15,000 good seats in the regular configuration. I doubt there will be that many in the new setup.

 

[shandeezy7]

I might take that bet. I would guess that there are at least 15,000 good seats in the regular configuration. I doubt there will be that many in the new setup.

I disagree with that. You are creating thousands more seats that are on the sideline. Even if they are higher up, they are drastically better seats than being even with or past the "curtain" area.

 

[Orangeyes]

ESPN's Myron Medcalf says this will be a huge ACC statement to claim top conference

 

[OttoMets]

This would be billed as a heavy weight match between two of the best programs in the country.

Coach K vs Coach B #1 & #2 active coaches in wins

Partners in the Renaissance of Team USA Basketball who helped lead us to two straight gold medals at the Olympics.

I am a season ticket holder and have no problem with the possibility of having my seat moved for just one game that will make history and be good for the program.

I'm excited over the possibility

That's a reasonable sentiment, Dan, and I'm inclined to share it - if I had a take a different seat for one game in order to participate in a special experience, I'd be fine with that.

But I don't get the sense that proponents (and I don't know if Vitale is right and this includes SU) have thought this through - it's very difficult to break the record by a few hundred people. All sorts of attractive games in 1985, 1989, and 1990 couldn't do it. UConn and Louisville games (when we were like 29-1 and ranked #2) couldn't do it in 2012. And we're not talking about squeezing in 200 people: they'd need to find 15,000 more SU fans who for some reason haven't gone to any of these other games but would want to pay a lot of money for a bad seat for this game.

That just seems very unlikely. Even if they did a spectacular job promoting the game, we could still add 8,000 fans (an incredible number) and have a very empty look about the building. We could have a lake effect event and have thousands more empty seats. If we lose two games in a row before the Duke game, there are sure to be thousands of no-shows.

It's much more likely that we won't draw 50,000 than it is that we will. And if that's the case, why sacrifice our home-court advantage, diminish the atmosphere for everyone, and risk the goodwill of 15,000 season ticketholders? Tons of risk, very little reward. Not sure why it'd even be considered.

 

[dfnj]

It seems like the 15,000 season ticket holders and boosters are being told to "suck it up" by the people who don't attend games now. They think it's a great idea because they personally have nothing to lose.

I live in New Jersey. Talk about suck it up! I used to be able to go to Villanova, Seton Hall, Rutgers, St. Johns, and MSG all within an hour from my house. I have absolutely no sympathy for the townie season ticket holders.

 

[Garbs]

My fear is that everyone ends up with worse seats. If you're further from the court, it's not really equivalent. See my earlier post about my 80 year old parents.

I mean equivalent in the viewing angle more than distance to the court

 

[OttoMets]

I am so glad to hear that. I know not everyone agrees with you. Seems like we have a lot of Andy Rooney's on board. Of course, he was a Colgate Red Raider. They never have to deal with this issue. Last year they averaged 458 people per game at home. I think we've almost topped that in the chat room. I wonder how the demand was when Foyle was there.

We Red Raiders keep good company.

And we juke the stats - Cotterell Court is probably closer to 90% empty for home games. Students only show up when ESPNU is in town, and that's a rare occurrence.

 

[dfnj]

They scrapped all the 100 level seats in the Georgia Dome and built entirely new temporary seating platforms.

See how the platforms slope down from the 100 level right to the basketball court. They also had two weeks before the event to construct the platforms, and a week after the event to take everything down.

The only way that SU could pull this off would be if SU had at least a week between home games before and after. And the Women's team would also be banished to the road for a couple of weeks.

And it's not cheap. Is the extra revenue from 10-12,000 tickets going to cover this expense?

Great post!

 

[Garbs]

I might take that bet. I would guess that there are at least 15,000 good seats in the regular configuration. I doubt there will be that many in the new setup.

I think you misunderstood me, I didn't say anything about good seats, I meant there would be far less bad seats, aka the seats behind the 'curtain' Like shandeezy said

 

[dfnj]

The logistics, cost, and season-ticket-holder-happiness of a center court dome are challenging. But holy cow, how cool would it be!

 

[OttoMets]

If they do move the court, I agree that they should have announced it before taking payment for season tickets. A question though for season ticket holders - if you had known ahead of time that they were going to move the court for the Duke game, would that have made any difference on your decision to buy season tickets?

Good question. Yes, I'd still have purchased. But a post-purchase modification is going to make me think harder about renewal for the 2014-2015 season. I would send a complaint to the athletic department, but...

I am not a donor, but those who are can tell you that changes have occurred over the last few years which make it reasonable for them to question if their dedication matters. From the changing of the donation structure/benefits to eliminating events like the football/mbb scrimmages (can't remember the names of these events), some of these folks have the right to question why their money doesn't seem to matter.

Just remember that the overall success of SU's teams has a lot to do with the people who give $1,000 on a yearly basis. Most business folks will tell you that you should be increasing, not decreasing, benefits for loyal "customers". I'm fine with trying new things (games at MetLife, moving the court), but SU needs to make sure that they don't alienate an important group in the process.

...Dr. Gross's group is so bad at customer service. They're totally unresponsive to feedback. He's done great things with the programs and the facilities, but the administration is top-heavy and full of dead wood. They do a dreadful job of managing constructive criticism and there doesn't seem to be any recourse (other than withholding money). So it'll be interesting to watch how the university handles this situation.

 

[OttoMets]

They scrapped all the 100 level seats in the Georgia Dome and built entirely new temporary seating platforms.

See how the platforms slope down from the 100 level right to the basketball court. They also had two weeks before the event to construct the platforms, and a week after the event to take everything down.

The only way that SU could pull this off would be if SU had at least a week between home games before and after. And the Women's team would also be banished to the road for a couple of weeks.

And it's not cheap. Is the extra revenue from 10-12,000 tickets going to cover this expense?

SU will do this as inexpensively as possible. Probably leave the three rows of courtside seats around the court and put low risers on the field for students to stand. Few or no temporary seats on the field; everyone else on football benches.

 

[rrlbees]

I have absolutely no sympathy for the townie season ticket holders.

And we have no sympathy for anyone that chooses to live in New Jersey.


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[JeremyCuse]

That's a reasonable sentiment, Dan, and I'm inclined to share it - if I had a take a different seat for one game in order to participate in a special experience, I'd be fine with that.

But I don't get the sense that proponents (and I don't know if Vitale is right and this includes SU) have thought this through - it's very difficult to break the record by a few hundred people. All sorts of attractive games in 1985, 1989, and 1990 couldn't do it. UConn and Louisville games (when we were like 29-1 and ranked #2) couldn't do it in 2012. And we're not talking about squeezing in 200 people: they'd need to find 15,000 more SU fans who for some reason haven't gone to any of these other games but would want to pay a lot of money for a bad seat for this game.

That just seems very unlikely. Even if they did a spectacular job promoting the game, we could still add 8,000 fans (an incredible number) and have a very empty look about the building. We could have a lake effect event and have thousands more empty seats. If we lose two games in a row before the Duke game, there are sure to be thousands of no-shows.

It's much more likely that we won't draw 50,000 than it is that we will. And if that's the case, why sacrifice our home-court advantage, diminish the atmosphere for everyone, and risk the goodwill of 15,000 season ticketholders? Tons of risk, very little reward. Not sure why it'd even be considered.

Great point Otto, I dont think anyone else has mentioned it either. At minimum SU would need to find 15,000 additional fans for this game on the numbers of 35K plus being the current record. With it being the first time SU ever moved the court I think they would get a huge response but I think most fans would be ignorant as to how far away they would actually be in this scenario. 15,000 people is a lot fans to add and as a fball and lacrosse season ticket holder I would probably pass on paying 60 bucks a ticket for 3rd level seats to this game and just watch at home.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

SU will do this as inexpensively as possible. Probably leave the three rows of courtside seats around the court and put low risers on the field for students to stand. Few or no temporary seats on the field; everyone else on football benches.

It'll look like the Astrodome:

 

[djcon57]

Just remember that the overall success of SU's teams has a lot to do with the people who give $1,000 on a yearly basis. Most business folks will tell you that you should be increasing, not decreasing, benefits for loyal "customers". I'm fine with trying new things (games at MetLife, moving the court), but SU needs to make sure that they don't alienate an important group in the process.

Don't shoot the messenger here...but MAYBE, just MAYBE..and I know it'll tough for some to swallow...but they don't think the "loyal customers" are that important. "Only horse in town" and all that. The community in return has shown one thing when it comes to loyalty. Win games and they will come.

 

[MSOrange]

Most will be worse, some a lot worse. I know it is impossible to give me anything comparable just based on the shape of the Dome. I figure a good 20-30 yards. I have no problem putting the court in the middle. They can do it for every game if they want. It is their program. But you make it known before it is done and how and where people's seats will be different. You don't do it after people have ponied up for the program when it is the biggest game of the year. Bait and switch is usually not a good business move.


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This pretty much sums up my feelings. But I live in Kansas and won't be going to the game regardless so it doesn't really affect me.

 

[NKR1978]

I live in New Jersey. Talk about suck it up! I used to be able to go to Villanova, Seton Hall, Rutgers, St. Johns, and MSG all within an hour from my house. I have absolutely no sympathy for the townie season ticket holders.

We've lost most of our ability to go the easy to travel to games. We think nothing of asking the ACC to throw away its tradition by trying to get its tournament a long term deal in NYC. And people complain about one game that would likely (weather issues notwithstanding) make for an absolutely special and historic night. I've said before that if I watched a day of hype on gameday and an event like this involved two other teams, I'd be jealous that it wasn't Syracuse doing it.

I'm not going to begrudge anyone for feeling slighted by the idea, but I don't see any reason why SU couldn't guarantee that season ticket holders get placed in seats that correspond to their regular seats as closely as possible.

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[Bayside44]

Great point Otto, I dont think anyone else has mentioned it either. At minimum SU would need to find 15,000 additional fans for this game on the numbers of 35K plus being the current record. With it being the first time SU ever moved the court I think they would get a huge response but I think most fans would be ignorant as to how far away they would actually be in this scenario. 15,000 people is a lot fans to add and as a fball and lacrosse season ticket holder I would probably pass on paying 60 bucks a ticket for 3rd level seats to this game and just watch at home.

This reminds me of the people freshman year that didn't pay for the Stones tickets and decided to listen on the Quad.

 

[Bayside44]

 

[OttoMets]

It'll look like the Astrodome:

It'd have a lot of space, especially in the end zones. But the Dome floor is a lot smaller (only about 15 feet between the football field sidelines and the railing). And imagine three rows of courtside seats, a row or two of press tables, and students about 20 deep behind that. And they'll want to keep an aisle clear between the students and the railing. So it'll fill most of the sideline space.

For the end zones, maybe they'll let Duke band come up and sit on the floor. Have the Sour Sitrus Society in the other end. Space behind that, probably a studio desk for the Gameday shoot.

 

[djcon57]

Bigger. Better. BADDER.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not one other program in the entire nation has this ability. The fact that we can do something like this, in the town that it is in, is remarkable. And something to embrace. Not something to hum and haw over and complain about.

Final thought: Whether you like it or not, it is going to happen. Whether it be this year, next year, 10 years from now, it is going to happen. It's the nature of sports marketing and college athletics. So either deal with it, or stop being a fan.

This is a great post.

I don't see how we can bemoan the arms race in facilities and how it affects our football program, while having the potential to do something incredible that no one else can using our facilities in a unique way for hoops... and not do it.

I also think there's a lot of insecurity showing in this thread by those people that think this is about Duke. This is about a one-of-a-kind thing Syracuse can do, that we're choosing to do because the game will be the most historic coaching match up of all time.

OF ALL TIME.