Dome Renovation

[xc84]

In reality students aren't coming out for football games as it is and all many of them have to do is walk a couple of hundred yards. In the mean time you have many multiples of long time residents of this region, not transients, who form your long term ticket base, not wanting to deal with the PITA location and instead watch it on TV.

The inner harbor location is the same distance to the Dome by car as the back end of Skytop and almost a mile closer than Drumlins.

Heintz Field is around 4.5 miles from Pitt through a much denser city and across a major river.

Miami and SFla play 20 miles away from campus. UCLA is over 20 miles from the Rose Bowl.

The inner harbor location is about 3 miles by car from the middle of campus.

And yes SU would be out of the stadium business, but they would be the anchor tenant as opposed to other schools that use pro stadiums.

Your argument seems to focus on the "best site for a stadium" while others (including me) are focusing on what will actually happen given all the circumstances surrounding the decision.

 

[Ottoble]

Otto, outside of the current location, and the south campus option, would you say the next best spot to build something new is downtown, Loguen Crossing, or by the Mall? I would think downtown to capitalize on this renewed urbanization of Syracuse, and keep it close by for students. However, I can't imagine there being room for a football sized stadium at that spot.

Loguen site is about 15% larger than the current dome footprint with undeveloped/existing parking lots and garages adjacent, Campus and downtown lots/garages/businesses within walking distance.

Open field on skytop south of current drumlins west 30% larger than current dome footprint, Existing south campus parking, existing north campus parking w reversed bussing, empty quarry and drumlins west course adjacent.

Leaving out the NIMBY convo If they don't put through the inland port deal you could build the stadium into the side of the abandoned quarry itself. If they do move forward with it weekend games might have additional parking at the port.

However personally I think the Lougen/Kennedy site is better it stimulates city and marshal st businesses better because everything will be will be walking distance. It could actually improve traffic on game days because there is no direct route several exits in many directions near by over there. Adams, Teal, Montgomery West St. to erie fayette and adams, Clinton St, and franklin st. and salina st. while Genesee, and Erie and both multi lane. Walking distance to multiple hotels instead of 2.

 

[Chip]

In reality students aren't coming out for football games as it is and all many of them have to do is walk a couple of hundred yards. In the mean time you have many multiples of long time residents of this region, not transients, who form your long term ticket base, not wanting to deal with the PITA location and instead watch it on TV.

I'd wait and see tomorrow's impacts of hiring the type of coach we just hired, before I made any stadium plans based on yesterday's attendance.

 

[GoSU96]

I'd wait and see tomorrow's impacts of hiring the type of coach we just hired, before I made any stadium plans based on yesterday's attendance.

Here's the problem, no matter who is footing the bill, 18K more attendees per football game isn't going to cover the nut unless it's a no strings attached donation with no return or bond to service. Sinking $200M just on a renovation in the same location doesn't solve many of the inherent issues with that location.

If a new offense is going to solve attendance problems just slap a new roof on and be done with it.

 

[GoSU96]

Your argument seems to focus on the "best site for a stadium" while others (including me) are focusing on what will actually happen given all the circumstances surrounding the decision.

You mean "best site for a stadium" shouldn't be a consideration. And what will actually happen?

 

[xc84]

You mean "best site for a stadium" shouldn't be a consideration. And what will actually happen?

"Best site" depends on many factors and we can't ignore them.

Given all the factors, I am betting that the "best site" is the current site. That's my expectation. A renovated dome. Hopefully some creative construction can limit or eliminate major disruption.

 

[CusefanATL]

I'll personally take a bulldozer to Drumlins West.

what about the astro-turf tee box?

I've always thought they should use game used pieces from the dome.

 

[TexanMark]

Even if trends favored SU developing the periphery of campus, I think Kent is savvy enough to recognize the hardship that litigation will cause and steer clear of this location. As you say, those years that would be lost to court battles are valuable to SU. Too valuable to waste on doing anything but designing and constructing a modern stadium.

Another factor...Destiny location is essentially 10 mins closer to most of the population to include: Rochester, North Country and Utica-Rome. Sorry Bingo...

 

[xc84]

Another factor...Destiny location is essentially 10 mins closer to most of the population to include: Rochester, North Country and Utica-Rome. Sorry Bingo...

It's also 10 minutes closer to Heid's which is a plus.

 

[GoSU96]

Another factor...Destiny location is essentially 10 mins closer to most of the population to include: Rochester, North Country and Utica-Rome. Sorry Bingo...

Amtrack station across the street. Airport 15 minutes, I-90 10 -15 minutes from three exits.

 

[GoSU96]

"Best site" depends on many factors and we can't ignore them.

Given all the factors, I am betting that the "best site" is the current site. That's my expectation. A renovated dome. Hopefully some creative construction can limit or eliminate major disruption.

What factors?

I'd like to hear how the facility in it's current location is going to provide enough cash to service the debt taken on for the project. I'm assuming a $200m to $300M price tag for the renovation.

All that for a marginal increase of 14K per football game (assuming downsizing by 5K full field). You can't really assume a boost in hoops attendance.

I don't care about disruption of a season, I'm taking about disruption on a continual basis to all the new residents in the area.

 

[TexanMark]

Amtrack station across the street. Airport 5 minutes, I-90 2-10 minutes from three exits.

FIFY...

 

[xc84]

What factors?

I'd like to hear how the facility in it's current location is going to provide enough cash to service the debt taken on for the project. I'm assuming a $200m to $300M price tag for the renovation.

I must have missed the new stadium option on pre-approved, shovel-ready free land that does not cost anything to build.

 

[upperdeck]

What factors?

I'd like to hear how the facility in it's current location is going to provide enough cash to service the debt taken on for the project. I'm assuming a $200m to $300M price tag for the renovation.

All that for a marginal increase of 14K per football game (assuming downsizing by 5K full field). You can't really assume a boost in hoops attendance.

I don't care about disruption of a season, I'm taking about disruption on a continual basis to all the new residents in the area.

you could easily see fball get better and gain 50K a year, and also see bball go back a bit when JB leaves and that drop even at 5K a game would be 100K or more, fball as bad as its been is still bringing in 30-35K, bball if it reached fball level of play wouldnt bring in 10K.

 

[Chip]

Here's the problem, no matter who is footing the bill, 18K more attendees per football game isn't going to cover the nut unless it's a no strings attached donation with no return or bond to service. Sinking $200M just on a renovation in the same location doesn't solve many of the inherent issues with that location.

If a new offense is going to solve attendance problems just slap a new roof on and be done with it.

We have no idea how much they'll actually spend, might just be a new roof and a couple minor cosmetic items.

But if the 18k more attendees show up, then isn't the problem solved? If we build a brand new stadium in a new location, aren't we left with the same math? (but bigger parking lots).

 

[xc84]

We have no idea how much they'll actually spend, might just be a new roof and a couple minor cosmetic items.

But if the 18k more attendees show up, then isn't the problem solved? If we build a brand new stadium in a new location, aren't we left with the same math? (but bigger parking lots).

No. Much worse math. A new stadium will be at least double in cost what the reno will be.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Maybe they're waiting until Miner's term expires in 11 months? That would be one major hurdle cleared to a new site within city limits. And speaking of locations, I've always wondered if Pioneer Homes could ever be demolished. It's sitting on prime real estate that either Upstate or SU would probably pay through the nose to acquire. A new dome just might work there if it was factored into the 81 redesign. Sits a block or two from the current campus, the convention center, war memorial, hotel syracuse, and armory square.

 

[longtimefan]

Maybe they're waiting until Miner's term expires in 11 months? That would be one major hurdle cleared to a new site within city limits. And speaking of locations, I've always wondered if Pioneer Homes could ever be demolished. It's sitting on prime real estate that either Upstate or SU would probably pay through the nose to acquire. A new dome just might work there if it was factored into the 81 redesign. Sits a block or two from the current campus, the convention center, war memorial, hotel syracuse, and armory square.

If a new arena/stadium were built, what would the War Memorial be used for?

 

[GoSU96]

I must have missed the new stadium option on pre-approved, shovel-ready free land that does not cost anything to build.

What does that mean?

 

[KellySyracuse]

It's also 10 minutes closer to Heid's which is a plus.

it's also a 10 minute walk from my house

 

[KellySyracuse]

If a new arena/stadium were built, what would the War Memorial be used for?

to memorialize the war heros. there is too much opposition from the veterans to ever make any major renovation to that place. if a new facility is built where the Crunch and Silver Knights would play the war memorial would be empty. the county might be able to do something with it, a museum maybe.

 

[tipphill]

If a new arena/stadium were built, what would the War Memorial be used for?

parochial league playoffs

 

[Consigliere]

Another factor...Destiny location is essentially 10 mins closer to most of the population to include: Rochester, North Country and Utica-Rome. Sorry Bingo...

No worries. I can actually get to Destiny in about the same time with the more efficient egress from 81.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

No worries. I can actually get to Destiny in about the same time with the more efficient egress from 81.

I think, if there was a do over, connecting the stadium, inner harbor, mall and Armory would make great sense. Lets go to the game from Albany, Roch, Buff. Catch a train, No driving, stay over in downtown and return by train.

 

[GoSU96]

No. Much worse math.

What's the basis for that statement?