Don't shoot the messenger

[OttoinGrotto]

Sorry its not, if FSU leaves the ACC will collapse period.

I never said anything about a collapse. The ACC is considered the last of the Power 5 (SEC, PAC12, Big 12, B1G). However if FSU and Clemson were to depart, the ACC will no doubt drop down to the same level as the MWC, Big East, etc. So why leave the Big East to go to a conference in similiar position?

Collapse was JeremyCuse's words.

I'm about to go all JohnSyracuse here.

Listen, a lot of you are pulling your hair out over nothing. The ACC is fine. If you can't see the difference between the Mountain West Conference (which may end up with Boise St. and San Diego St.), the new Big East (whatever that is), and the ACC (sans Florida State and Clemson)... well, go ahead and keep pulling your hair out.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Collapse was JeremyCuse's words.

I'm about to go all JohnSyracuse here.

Listen, a lot of you are pulling your hair out over nothing. The ACC is fine. If you can't see the difference between the Mountain West Conference (which may end up with Boise St. and San Diego St.), the new Big East (whatever that is), and the ACC (sans Florida State and Clemson)... well, go ahead and keep pulling your hair out.

Name two nationally relevant (today) football schools in the ACC not named Florida State or Clemson?

Also, not pulling my hair out. Just saying that we need to have open minds about this and wait to see what FSU/Clemson do now.

 

[Bayside44]

Sounds like typical Big East thinking before 2003/4...looks where the Big East is now...

Not in the least. The Big East was always unstable because you had 2 sets of school scattered about that were at cross purposes.

Maryland is a mismanaged mess that got the equivelant of a government bailout, and a close trip for DC based OSU, PSU, and Michigan fans to see a football game. And the decision was made by 2 guys who are passing through town there.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sounds like typical Big East thinking before 2003/4...looks where the Big East is now...

ACC leadership > BE leadership

ACC geography > BE geography

ACC composition (no hoops onlies) > BE composition (bastardized mix of all-sports and hoops onlies)

ACC brands > BE brands

Look, I get it, people like getting their boxers bunched up over this stuff, but nobody is thinking this through.

 

[Bayside44]

Name two nationally relevant (today) football schools in the ACC not named Florida State or Clemson?

Also, not pulling my hair out. Just saying that we need to have open minds about this and wait to see what FSU/Clemson do now.

Virginia Tech, in theory Miami. The middle class of GT, UNC, NCSU, UVA is a solid core, they'll go up and down over time.

At some level you have to find your water level and compete there.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Name two nationally relevant (today) football schools in the ACC not named Florida State or Clemson?

Also, not pulling my hair out. Just saying that we need to have open minds about this and wait to see what FSU/Clemson do now.

Virginia Tech and Miami.

That was pretty easy.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Virginia Tech, in theory Miami. The middle class of GT, UNC, NCSU, UVA is a solid core, they'll go up and down over time.

At some level you have to find your water level and compete there.

Sorry...I must disagree with you. Va Tech and Miami are not currently nationally relevant. The middle class are basketball schools trying to be football schools.

 

[All4SU]

Name two nationally relevant (today) football schools in the ACC not named Florida State or Clemson?

Also, not pulling my hair out. Just saying that we need to have open minds about this and wait to see what FSU/Clemson do now.

Miami is still relevant. They are still a brand name. VT is still relevant. GTech is semi-relevant. And as you said, FSU and Clemson.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sorry...I must disagree with you. Va Tech and Miami are not currently nationally relevant. The middle class are basketball schools trying to be football schools.

Dude, you should probably go ahead and change your avatar.

You're like the guy that starts talking about dumping his girlfriend months before he actually does.

 

[JeremyCuse]

FSU has been pretty generic for a while. The ACC has plenty of depth, corporate sponsors, multigenerational fans and money.

Rome doesnt burn if Nero doesn't fiddle.

Its all about perception, when was the last time Nebraska was really nationally relevant before the Big10 took them on in expansion? If FSU leaves the perception is that the ACC is getting picked apart a la the Big East part 2. Schools like Clemson and Va Tech are goign to start looking for a way out and fast. Corporate sponsors and multigenerational fans are meaningless at this point, its all about ensuring you are in one of the power conferences and not left on the outside looking in. Schools will sell there souls to ensure there safety.

 

[Bayside44]

Sorry...I must disagree with you. Va Tech and Miami are not currently nationally relevant. The middle class are basketball schools trying to be football schools.

School have off years.

 

[All4SU]

Sorry...I must disagree with you. Va Tech and Miami are not currently nationally relevant. The middle class are basketball schools trying to be football schools.

Miami and VT are certainly brand names.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Dude, you should probably go ahead and change your avatar.

You're like the guy that starts talking about dumping his girlfriend months before he actually does.

Where do you get that? I have never said that we should give up on the ACC, just saying that we should not close the door on other options should other changes (FSU/Clemson, etc.) occur. I am loving that SU is in the ACC as I will get to see them every other year here in Florida (live about 90 min from Tallahassee) in football and pretty much every year in b-ball. However, i would be open to SU going someplace else if the landscape and circumstances change between now and then. I really don't want SU to go anywhere else but the ACC, but if the ACC becomes basically the same opportunities as we are leaving (Big East) then why not explore other options?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Collapse was JeremyCuse's words.

I'm about to go all JohnSyracuse here.

Listen, a lot of you are pulling your hair out over nothing. The ACC is fine. If you can't see the difference between the Mountain West Conference (which may end up with Boise St. and San Diego St.), the new Big East (whatever that is), and the ACC (sans Florida State and Clemson)... well, go ahead and keep pulling your hair out.

Sorry but your whistling past the graveyard, the ACC was allready in a lesser place based on the new bowl arangements and playoff set up, losing FSU/CLemson would be an absolute disaster if you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Miami and VT are certainly brand names.

In their region yes, but not nationally like Alabama, FSU, Florida, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, Oregon, USC, etc.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Sorry but your whistling past the graveyard, the ACC was allready in a lesser place based on the new bowl arangements and playoff set up, losing FSU/CLemson would be an absolute disaster if you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you.

The writing was on the wall for the ACC in terms of relevance when pen went to paper on the Sugar Bowl contract between the Big 12 and SEC.

 

[jr4750]

Virginia Tech and Miami.

That was pretty easy.

No Question... Miami although down is one of the most dominant teams of the past 25 years... VT as well has been very strong since the mid to late 90's. There is a lot of revisionist history within the ranks here. No question, those schools can be great again...

 

[ithacat]

But i don't wanna play Minnesota every year

And I don't want to be a pirate, but a puffy shirt is a heck of a lot better than no shirt.

 

[All4SU]

In their region yes, but not nationally like Alabama, FSU, Florida, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, Oregon, USC, etc.

Then we are at an impasse -- as I disagree. And you mention Oregon...they have been a brand for about a week.

 

[AirForceOrange]

No Question... Miami although down is one of the most dominant teams of the past 25 years... VT as well has been very strong since the mid to late 90's. There is a lot of revisionist history within the ranks here. No question, those schools can be great again...

Just to clarify...I never said VT and Miami never were relevant, just saying that right at this moment that are a lot of other teams more nationally relevant right now. I remeber when both those teams were at or near the top of relevancy, but until they come back they are not. Don't forget that the "what have you done lately" thinking has the most power.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Then we are at an impasse -- as I disagree. And you mention Oregon...they have been a brand for about a week.

Really? Bet it would be easier to find an Oregon fan than a Miami or VT fan right now. I have been talking about current relevancy not historical relevancy, big difference.

 

[All4SU]

Really? Bet it would be easier to find an Oregon fan than a Miami or VT fan right now. I have been talking about current relevancy not historical relevancy, big difference.

I'm talking about brands.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I'm talking about brands.

Then we are talking about two different things.

 

[All4SU]

Then we are talking about two different things.

Brand names are always relevant, even when they are having down years. Some other teams are relevant at the moment, but are not brand names.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Brand names are always relevant, even when they are having down years. Some other teams are relevant at the moment, but are not brand names.

Agreed. However, I was not really referring to the various schools I have mentioned in regards to branding but was referring to current (today) relevancy. Branding ties more into historical and current relevancy. Whereas I am just talking about relevancy right this minute. Oregon as of right now is more relevant to college football than VT or Miami. However, if taken from a historical/complete overall relevancy, than Miami and VT have more relevancy. Hope that makes sense.