Duke Game...

[Gone]

2 stats stand out: Duke beat us 31-15 in ground balls and won 75% of face-offs.
Other than that, our shooting was efficient, equal to Duke. Clears, turnovers and EMO were even up.
Cuse goaltending better with 13 saves vs 10 and better save %.
Hats off to the guys for showing toughness and grit.

 

[ivorytower]

Too many calls went Duke's way including the phantom whistle. Watched Cuse players get hit several times in back with no calls. These face-off violations are partly differences in refs. Positive was some signs that Varello coming around. Up and down performances by Phaup make it clear that fogo matchups matter more after rule changes moreso than reps. He could beat Gallagher next week. Thought putting a pole at faceoffs to muck it up might be worthwhile because Naso was winning clean. Obvious scheme is to hang back when opponent wins going backward, maybe part of reason very few transition breaks agaisnt since Army. Just wish we'd get transition o going with some upfield passes. Grass is always greener on the other side, tired of hearing how good some teams are. Syracuse offense sliced up Duke despite not getting usual performances from some. Beauty of this team is not reliant on any one player, one day its one player the next its another . Got a frosh in Hiltz whose already occupying opponents top defender which spread the field. Expecting some critique of first line soon after light production of last two games. Spare the embarrassment, all legit AA and one or two of them is going off soon just as Scanlan has after his burial here. Underrated Refhuss continues to shine in his final go around , love his assertiveness this year. Some didnt want him back, thank gawd he did. Scanlan had his best game , that backhander was a thing of beauty. Second line looked good, was hoping to see more of Seebold who is turning into a man child. Lynch is dangerous and has been consistent , Cook moved well tonight with purpose. Defense showed how good they could be in second half , very encouraging, actually played played some zone, good to to give offenses another look. Wykoff did fine regardless of any stats, shutdown is too loosely thrown around. Kennedy on and off ball d was strong , yeh we want more but he doesn't get challenged much for good reason. . DiPietro played Oneill well. Gone unnoticed but he's defended the leading attackman in three previous games and has done fairly well. Dearth played good d. Porter went as the D did, he's been stopping what is stoppable and more . Great comeback. A loss is a loss and sure it bothers orange right now because winnable game but they showed tonight that they can play with the best even when not firing on all cylinders.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

I fully blame the refs

 

[sulax]

Too many calls went Duke's way including the phantom whistle.

Great stuff. I agree with your insights, although I don’t know about Cook (Buttermore should be playing; he’ll be yet another disgruntled player that will transfer and excel somewhere else). It was a great comeback, and we showed a lot of heart! We’ll see Duke again.
Damn phantom whistle in the 1st half cost us a fast break and the one in the 2nd half gave them the extra possession and game winner. Pathetic
Damn face-offs. Not again... SO frustrating. Just get 40%! Or just concede them and at least not give up fast break goals (you’re point). To lose nearly all of them AND give up multiple goals is pathetic.
Damn Covid. Obviously much bigger consequences of this pandemic, but it may have cost us 2 chips (stopping play last year when we had a real chance to win it, and then this year resulting in Sowers going to Duke; he’s just too good)
Do we have a good goalie next year?! If so, then we can squeeze one more year to try and legitimately get a chip. If not, then we need to go all in this year!

 

[OttosDad]

A couple thoughts...

We just have to be better at the X. I don't care how they do it, put a pole in there and muck it up, what ever you have to do to get more possessions. Need faster guys on the wing, missing Fernandez's speed and vacuum stick. Does anyone have any updates on Clary potentially returning?

First line midfield has to play better. WAY too many turnovers from those guys and not enough production. Duke showed Hiltz the utmost respect and put Giles-Harris on him. When they did that, it meant the first line mid was going to have to step up and unfortunately they didn't. Dordevic was great for 15 of the last 20 minutes, however had a very bad turnover late. Curry was solid but a quiet day overall. Trimboli HAS to do more. On the last possession when Curry shot wide, Trimboli had a step down opportunity and passed it back to Curry for a much tougher shot. It was not smart, he needed to let that fly.

 

[WoodyUK]

If that game had been in the dome we’d have won the southern refs looked out of their depth!

After a day of travelling this would explain the slow start, we have learnt a lot from this game against a stacked team, not only about Dukes personnel and schemes but also about our own level of play. We should be encouraged as we really haven’t put together a solid 4 quarters yet this year.

Let the horses run we need our top players on the game more. 1st line middies should get more burn.

Cook is not a shooting threat.

Our SSDMs aren’t as good as we thought but are improving each game.

The Def scheme and playing within it is more important than the individual.

I thought 44, 90 and 17 played great for the most part. 11 is struggling a little.

I think Trimbo deserved the last shot.

A hell of a lot of credit should go to 22, he scrapped and battled all game and brought us back into it. Not enough is said about his leadership.

We should have been in all Orange not navy?

 

[WoodyUK]

Good comeback, that second to last possession on the man up was not a good one. 2 men up and the best we got was that Curry low angle shot. Not to Monday morning QB it but we needed something better there.

He had another look down low to Chase on the wheel.

 

[durhamcuse]

Two super teams in an epic early season ACC battle. Good test for both teams. Both will get better. It’s just great that lacrosse is being played again.

 

[Gone]

Three really good things to think about on the morning after:
1) Scanlan looked elite with 4 goals (one highlight reel) against a very good Duke defense. He seemed to regain his mojo in the Holy Cross game. There is real chemistry with Hiltz, Rehfuss and Scanlan.
2) In spite of officiating and lack of possessions, we were one possession/goal from going up 15-13 and finishing them off
3) Defense looked solid in the 2nd half and should only get better

 

[HtownOrange]

The loss will motivate SU when they next meet Duke...in the post season.

 

[Newhouser]

As a fan who never played and is new to the great sport...the faceoff has to go. Obviously officiated inconsistently and slows game down. Pull it from the net and go.

 

[ivorytower]

A couple thoughts...

We just have to be better at the X. I don't care how they do it, put a pole in there and muck it up, what ever you have to do to get more possessions. Need faster guys on the wing, missing Fernandez's speed and vacuum stick. Does anyone have any updates on Clary potentially returning?

First line midfield has to play better. WAY too many turnovers from those guys and not enough production. Duke showed Hiltz the utmost respect and put Giles-Harris on him. When they did that, it meant the first line mid was going to have to step up and unfortunately they didn't. Dordevic was great for 15 of the last 20 minutes, however had a very bad turnover late. Curry was solid but a quiet day overall. Trimboli HAS to do more. On the last possession when Curry shot wide, Trimboli had a step down opportunity and passed it back to Curry for a much tougher shot. It was not smart, he needed to let that fly.

Rewatched game CLOSELY last night. On ESPN plus for those who wish to check.

There were a GRAND TOTAL of 4 plays where wings came into play . The rest were won cleanly with exit or a violations.

Duke got a total of 1 gb off wing that led to goal, Dearth got one off Varello,
Syracuse got other two possessions off battles near x off two pushes.

Where Cuse was hurt was two Naso fast exits. One a goal and one a push from behind by dm that led to penalty and tying score late

 

[GoSU96]

Rewatched game CLOSELY last night. On ESPN plus for those who wish to check.

There were a GRAND TOTAL of 4 plays where wings came into play . The rest were won cleanly with exit or a violations.

Duke got a total of 1 gb off wing that led to goal, Dearth got one off Varello,
Syracuse got other two possessions off battles near x off two pushes.

Where Cuse was hurt was two Naso fast exits. One a goal and one a push from behind by dm that led to penalty and tying score late

Exactly

 

[PhatOrange]

As a fan who never played and is new to the great sport...the faceoff has to go. Obviously officiated inconsistently and slows game down. Pull it from the net and go.

As soon as it's 'called' differently depending on the official there is a problem. It shouldn't be arbitrary. It was never this hard before. Players down, ball down, 3 inches apart, don't move, back up, blow whistle, go. If kids jump before the whistle is blown that's on them. There was never this much of an issue with the faceoff 20, 30, 40 years ago. An oh by way, make the heads wider and maybe you won't have one kid dominate so much where the ball is pinched and he's able to drag it around and up off the ground. That might be the single biggest issue/detriment to the face off being the stick head.

New School Faceoff Head:

Old School Faceoff Head

 

[ivorytower]

If that game had been in the dome we’d have won the southern refs looked out of their depth!

After a day of travelling this would explain the slow start, we have learnt a lot from this game against a stacked team, not only about Dukes personnel and schemes but also about our own level of play. We should be encouraged as we really haven’t put together a solid 4 quarters yet this year.

Let the horses run we need our top players on the game more. 1st line middies should get more burn.

Cook is not a shooting threat.

Our SSDMs aren’t as good as we thought but are improving each game.

The Def scheme and playing within it is more important than the individual.

I thought 44, 90 and 17 played great for the most part. 11 is struggling a little.

I think Trimbo deserved the last shot.

A hell of a lot of credit should go to 22, he scrapped and battled all game and brought us back into it. Not enough is said about his leadership.

We should have been in all Orange not navy?

Saw ganme , rewatched with rewinds

Second line was playing well when in. Could have played more . Next to Refhuss and Scanlan , Seebold shined and Quinn played well.. Cook actually made a beautiful pass inside at x to Seebold for a score . Heard Carc and Anish mentioned their surprise that 2nd line came on after longest stretch of not having ball but second line looked good when out and would have liked to have seen more of Seebold

#44 and #11 played very well defensively. Sowers is `a tough assignment , dont like critiquing but he repeatedly out quick #17 on dodges especially in first half that caused issues . Seen #90 play better games.

Not sure if you are talking about shot taken previous to second penalty but no time on clock to try anything else . Hiltz pass to Refhuss caught defender and Refhuss attempt was a beauty. Cuse got ball with over minute left with chance to ties , had some chances . Adler made a great stop on a Dordevic missal. Angle of Curry's shot was low percentage but we had let time run down

 

[MD Cuse Fan]

Rewatched game CLOSELY last night. On ESPN plus for those who wish to check.

There were a GRAND TOTAL of 4 plays where wings came into play . The rest were won cleanly with exit or a violations.

Duke got a total of 1 gb off wing that led to goal, Dearth got one off Varello,
Syracuse got other two possessions off battles near x off two pushes.

Where Cuse was hurt was two Naso fast exits. One a goal and one a push from behind by dm that led to penalty and tying score late

Certainly felt that way watching last night. I've discussed it on here all season, the wing play has mostly been crap (including Dearth/Kennedy) this season and honestly the last few seasons. I think when you factor in that our 2 main FOGO's are simply not as athletic as other's in the ACC, when they get beat cleanly and have to chase it's a real issue. In instances like last night they should have Kennedy start cheating back to prevent fast breaks. I would love to see what the stats are when the draw becomes a scrum because they're just simply not winning enough of those battles.

 

[wgdsr]

really don't understand why teams don't go 1-4-1 whenever they're 2 men up. granted it was only 10 + seconds, but they had a timeout for it.

running your regular emo does a lot to negate your extra extra and gives you the same outside shots. 1-4-1 you can have anything you want, you're not wasting a guy outside, and you are often going to get an inside dunk, if not a handsfree wing or up top from 7-10 yards.

 

[ivorytower]

As soon as it's 'called' differently depending on the official there is a problem. It shouldn't be arbitrary. It was never this hard before. Players down, ball down, 3 inches apart, don't move, back up, blow whistle, go. If kids jump before the whistle is blown that's on them. There was never this much of an issue with the faceoff 20, 30, 40 years ago. An oh by way, make the heads wider and maybe you won't have one kid dominate so much where the ball is pinched and he's able to drag it up and around. That might be the single biggest issue/detriment to the face off being the stick head.

Agree. In hindsight , wish face-off was left as is . Creating less scrums and wing play where I thought it would do opposite. Wins are mostly either clean or whistled. Those that can exit quickly have benefited most.

Some of these violations are imperceptible to me, seen it called differently in other games including UVA where Phaup dominated .

Getting three violations early agaisnt both Vermont and Duke put our fogo's at huge disadvantage.

 

[ivorytower]

Certainly felt that way watching last night. I've discussed it on here all season, the wing play has mostly been crap (including Dearth/Kennedy) this season and honestly the last few seasons. I think when you factor in that our 2 main FOGO's are simply not as athletic as other's in the ACC, when they get beat cleanly and have to chase it's a real issue. In instances like last night they should have Kennedy start cheating back to prevent fast breaks. I would love to see what the stats are when the draw becomes a scrum because they're just simply not winning enough of those battles.

ESPN plus gives you opportunity to rewatch and dissect games on demand. Either confirms or changes impressions.

Wing play over the past few years has been clearly better than it was in the previous years. Cuse has won more than their share in total but some games can always be cited . Seems every fanbase complains about faceoffs other than Yale .Best for Cuse was in 19 when they were double poling with Kennedy and Fernandez. BK wasn't on /o Naso goal and his speed doesn't require him to play down line much except for the rocket fogos. Watch Vermont game to witness that . He simply should be on more faceoffs. One thing I have noticed is that we dont chase when opposing fogo wins going back into their end. Assume it is scheme to prevent overextending and not permit any quick ball reversal upfield. Like to see that question asked by press regarding that. Have cited fogo exits before, Phaup when winning can get pounded . Varello won some but had a few then stripped by Naso. Not sure what can be done in that regard besides changing it up some , Varello did use wing in kicking ball back to Dearth.

 

[ivorytower]

As a fan who never played and is new to the great sport...the faceoff has to go. Obviously officiated inconsistently and slows game down. Pull it from the net and go.

Coach Scott Marr of Albany felt the same way until he had Ierlan. Right now Id agree with you but I would have disagreed after UVA game lol.

Think expectations were that new face-off rules would even field but it has led to some very uneven performances amid current adjustments. Losers lament but thought it also makes slight differences in refs factor more

 

[wgdsr]

the phantom call has been solved by hopfan16 @ fanlax. giles-harris' glove had come off his hand as he switched hands/was initially checked by kennedy and several seconds before the ball was dislodged. the ref (in the picture) had already decided to call it. tough break, but the right call.

that leaves the inexcusable cut off/play on of the fast break in the first half (that really should've been 30 with possession and still play on) and whatever you don't like about the faceoff adjudication.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

the phantom call has been solved by hopfan16 @ fanlax. giles-harris' glove had come off his hand as he switched hands/was initially checked by kennedy and several seconds before the ball was dislodged. the ref (in the picture) had already decided to call it. tough break, but the right call.

that leaves the inexcusable cut off/play on of the fast break in the first half (that really should've been 30 with possession and still play on) and whatever you don't like about the faceoff adjudication.

Ran into Brian Higgins at Wegmans this morning. He confirmed.

1:44:00 on the replay.

 

[WoodyUK]

really don't understand why teams don't go 1-4-1 whenever they're 2 men up. granted it was only 10 + seconds, but they had a timeout for it.

running your regular emo does a lot to negate your extra extra and gives you the same outside shots. 1-4-1 you can have anything you want, you're not wasting a guy outside, and you are often going to get an inside dunk, if not a handsfree wing or up top from 7-10 yards.

It seems like every team Plays the wheel now on man up! It’s been a staple at Cuse for years!

 

[ivorytower]

the phantom call has been solved by hopfan16 @ fanlax. giles-harris' glove had come off his hand as he switched hands/was initially checked by kennedy and several seconds before the ball was dislodged. the ref (in the picture) had already decided to call it. tough break, but the right call.

that leaves the inexcusable cut off/play on of the fast break in the first half (that really should've been 30 with possession and still play on) and whatever you don't like about the faceoff adjudication.

Shouldn't that have been a penalty on Duke then? Believe playing on without a glove or stick is one. Regardless, ball should not have been given back to Duke as the caused turnover happened before the whistle.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Shouldn't that have been a penalty on Duke then? Believe playing on without a glove or stick is one. Regardless, ball should not have been given back to Duke as the caused turnover happened before the whistle.

I believe I have seen it officiated that way before, but I don't know the specifics of the rule book.