Dungey - Who here thinks

[Crusty]

That wasn't my point, typically the best of the best reside in the big cities and I guarantee every NFL franchise has them.

The best cancer facilities any distance from here reside in Boston and NYC, it's not hard to figure that out.

Generally agree but Buffalo has a really good one as well - Roswell Park Cancer Institute.

 

[CuseOnly]

Generally agree but Buffalo has a really good one as well - Roswell Park Cancer Institute.

Agreed, anyone more qualified than a guy who specializes in OBGYN. They aren't hard to find in big cities.

 

[Toga]

Agreed, anyone more qualified than a guy who specializes in OBGYN. They aren't hard to find in big cities.

Well an OBGYN's opinion might be pure speculum.

 

[jgeorge322]

Well an OBGYN's opinion might be pure speculum.

Its all in vernerial

 

[721Comstock]

Its all in vernerial

Gotta think out of the box here.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Mahoney did that against the 127th pass defense in the country (out of 128!). It tells us very little about him.

I agree that I'd be elated if he produced those numbers against a top team but even our starting QB couldn't do that.

Mahoney has come into games and been unable to hit the side of a bus. He had a few of those yesterday, typically throwing too high, but he also had some great long throws and an overall good game in which he appeared to grow more confident. He looked good and I don't see the point of taking that away from him.

And while Pitt is a low rated disaster on pass defense they were good enough to beat the number two team in the country on the road. So, they're bad but somewhere in there are some players and schemes that can deliver results when needed.

 

[hungrychuck]

I just went back and looked at who said he was seeking a 2nd opinion and it wasn't Babers, it was an article from Nate Mink from his "source". Which a lot of people believe to be his parents.

Syracuse football QB Eric Dungey's injury is not career-ending

Then Babers said to his knowledge that he hadn't gotten one yet.

Syracuse football QB Eric Dungey still waiting on 2nd opinion (3 things Dino Babers said)

Like I said, I think Dungey got his 2nd opinion and Tucker still didn't clear him to play.

The following quote from said Nate Mink story, re the second opinion:

"The issue now is whether Dungey will be medically cleared to return this season, the source said."

 

[CuseOnly]

The following quote from said Nate Mink story, re the second opinion:

"The issue now is whether Dungey will be medically cleared to return this season, the source said."

Tucker holds all the cards on whether Dungey plays ever again at Syracuse and looks like he didn't clear him to play, because he never again saw the field.

Even if Dungey got his expert second opinion according to the "source", which many believe were Eric's parents, it really doesn't mean anything as Tucker makes the call. Case in point is AJ Long from my above post.

 

[007]

Tucker holds all the cards on whether Dungey plays ever again at Syracuse and looks like he didn't clear him to play, because he never again saw the field.

Even if Dungey got his expert second opinion according to the "source", which many believe were Eric's parents, it really doesn't mean anything as Tucker makes the call. Case in point is AJ Long from my above post.

The problem with this line of reasoning is the assumption that Tucker makes these types of decisions unilaterally or in a vacuum without neurological and psycho-neurological consultation and assessment. He may have "final" say on clearance. But, I find it very hard to believe he is making concussion decisions without recommendations from specialist and then weighing that information against the school's policy.

 

[CuseOnly]

The problem with this line of reasoning is the assumption that Tucker makes these types of decisions unilaterally or in a vacuum without neurological and psycho-neurological consultation and assessment. He may have "final" say on clearance. But, I find it very hard to believe he is making concussion decisions without recommendations from specialist and then weighing that information against the school's policy.

You should have read my post #68 earlier in the thread, I will post it below. Helps if you read the article I linked as well and your opinion will change quickly. The kids never saw another doctor besides Tucker.

While I agree with you on some points, there are actual reasons that some of us feel the way we do on this issue.

One of which is that almost ALL if not ALL P5 schools don't let a GP make the final call when it comes to concussions, it is a Neurologist that makes that call and they don't run it by the GP just to see what his opinion is because the GP's opinion means squat.

A long read but a good article on AJ and Arciniega among others, nowhere does it mention that Tucker consulted with any other physicians before he DQ'd AJ or Luke. Nor does AJ or Luke mention that either went to see a specialist, the call was completely Tucker's.

Disqualified after concussions, college football players recruited back onto the field

"Long’s parents suspected that the university’s decision wasn’t entirely about their son’s health — and that the coaches no longer wanted him on the team."

Also from the Article below...

Long’s father and stepmother, Isla, talked to Tucker after he disqualified A.J., and they came away thinking the decision was made with inadequate testing and without consulting concussion experts. Syracuse would not allow Tucker, who is a family medicine doctor, to be interviewed for this story.

Isla Long is an attorney in Philadelphia, and she researched the Syracuse concussion policy. It says that any student-athlete with two documented concussions resulting in missed practice or playing time will receive a letter from the team physician warning that a third concussion “may disqualify” them from contact sports at the school.

Basing disqualifications on the number of concussions “is not the way to approach this injury,” said Michael Collins, the director of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Sports Medicine Concussion Program. He said the policy is well-intentioned, but can lead athletes to hide concussions.

An EXPERT IN CONCUSSIONS says the policy is misguided and "NOT THE WAY TO APPROACH THIS INJURY."

How many of Pitt's players have been DQ'd by concussion protocol? They have some of the leaders in this area, would be interesting to know.

Nuff said.

 

[hungrychuck]

Tucker holds all the cards on whether Dungey plays ever again at Syracuse and looks like he didn't clear him to play, because he never again saw the field.

Even if Dungey got his expert second opinion according to the "source", which many believe were Eric's parents, it really doesn't mean anything as Tucker makes the call. Case in point is AJ Long from my above post.

What this wording says to me is that he was not cleared to return this season, but there is no ban on him returning next season. Maybe I'm being an optimist, but my tendency is to believe the information being presented here until there is a reason not to.

 

[blizz]

What does IHCDB mean?

Interim Head Coach Dino Babers

Itinerant Head Coach Dino Babers

 

[CuseOnly]

Itinerant Head Coach Dino Babers

Itchy Head Coach Dino Babers ?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[jgeorge322]

woah, were listening to doctors now? how absurd. I rather go with cuseonly's opinions.

 

[Toga]

If any of our players get knocked up - we've got our guy.

 

[Pyle]

That's fine. It's not a perfect policy.

That doesn't mean that anything here was misdiagnosed.

It had better be pretty freaking close to perfect if it's going to end a kid's football career. I have some thoughts about your other thoughts too...

1. I think some people here are really overstepping boundaries with how certain they are saying this doctor isn't qualified.
I think you're misinterpreting this certainty. What we are saying is that a specialist is MOST likely way MORE qualified than a guy who's delivering babies on Tues. and treating laryngitis on Wed. A specialist devotes their entire career to their specialty. It's simply common sense to see that they would have more information and be more knowledgeable than someone who must split his time among many different disciplines.

2. I'm more than a little bit appalled at how willing some seem to be to see young people "just" make an informed decision ie they keep playing football, whatever informed decision means.
I think if we can allow young people the decision to join the military and get shot at and die then we can allow them to decide whether they want to chance scrambling their eggs. I'd rather have scrambled eggs than eggs with bullet holes in them but we're ok as a society with letting 18 year olds make that decision all day, what's more, once they make that decision they can't take it back for 4 years. They are forced to follow through. Nobody is forcing a kid to keep playing football.

3. I'm a little bothered by how aggressively people are willing to take their assumptions and apply them to what they think the right thing would be for Coach Babers to do.
I'm a little bothered that some people around here can't accept the fact that an ob/gyn should not be medically disqualifying anyone for concussion issues. If Dungey has poly-cystic ovary syndrome then fine but in this case I still prefer someone that spends their careers studying brains and the effects of trauma on the brain and I think anyone who gets upset at myself or others who feel this way is just being flat out stubborn.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It had better be pretty freaking close to perfect if it's going to end a kid's football career. I have some thoughts about your other thoughts too...

1. I think some people here are really overstepping boundaries with how certain they are saying this doctor isn't qualified.
I think you're misinterpreting this certainty. What we are saying is that a specialist is MOST likely way MORE qualified than a guy who's delivering babies on Tues. and treating laryngitis on Wed. A specialist devotes their entire career to their specialty. It's simply common sense to see that they would have more information and be more knowledgeable than someone who must split his time among many different disciplines.

2. I'm more than a little bit appalled at how willing some seem to be to see young people "just" make an informed decision ie they keep playing football, whatever informed decision means.
I think if we can allow young people the decision to join the military and get shot at and die then we can allow them to decide whether they want to chance scrambling their eggs. I'd rather have scrambled eggs than eggs with bullet holes in them but we're ok as a society with letting 18 year olds make that decision all day, what's more, once they make that decision they can't take it back for 4 years. They are forced to follow through. Nobody is forcing a kid to keep playing football.

3. I'm a little bothered by how aggressively people are willing to take their assumptions and apply them to what they think the right thing would be for Coach Babers to do.
I'm a little bothered that some people around here can't accept the fact that an ob/gyn should not be medically disqualifying anyone for concussion issues. If Dungey has poly-cystic ovary syndrome then fine but in this case I still prefer someone that spends their careers studying brains and the effects of trauma on the brain and I think anyone who gets upset at myself or others who feel this way is just being flat out stubborn.

Maybe I'm too callous about this, but I'm really comfortable ending a kid's football career too early.

I think Tucker is more than likely consulting with specialists. He hasn't been allowed to speak on what he does, nor should he. I'm more skeptical of the story in the PS than I am of Tucker.

I think the fact that we let young people sign up to get shot sucks, and shouldn't excuse letting young people make other sucky choices.

Yes, I am stubborn. I also think it's weird that people feel the University and AD selected what's more or less being described as a doctor that's incompetent for something so important.

 

[CuseOnly]

woah, were listening to doctors now? how absurd. I rather go with cuseonly's opinions.

I listed plenty of reasons in my posts from the kids themselves, to the parents after speaking with Tucker, to the opinions of experts at the University of Pittsburgh. All saying that the policy is wrong and experts weren't consulted.

But you can focus on my opinions if you like, it tells me you didn't read a thing I wrote or the articles I linked and evidence contrary to what you believe.

 

[CuseOnly]

woah, were listening to doctors now? how absurd. I rather go with cuseonly's opinions.

Just an additional note from that article, take a look at who they consulted, all but one were EXPERTS in the fields of CTE and concussions and not one Family Practitioner with specialties in OBGyn.

 

[Pyle]

Maybe I'm too callous about this, but I'm really comfortable ending a kid's football career too early.

I think Tucker is more than likely consulting with specialists. He hasn't been allowed to speak on what he does, nor should he. I'm more skeptical of the story in the PS than I am of Tucker.

I think the fact that we let young people sign up to get shot sucks, and shouldn't excuse letting young people make other sucky choices.

Yes, I am stubborn. I also think it's weird that people feel the University and AD selected what's more or less being described as a doctor that's incompetent for something so important.

Well given the fact that most people thought Gross was incompetent and the University actually hired Cantor, you put waaaaaaay too much faith into things without questioning them. The new ADs I don't feel have been here long enough to shake that branch yet.

 

[jgeorge322]

Just an additional note from that article, take a look at who they consulted, all but one were EXPERTS in the fields of CTE and concussions and not one Family Practitioner with specialties in OBGyn.

You are attacking an individual when its about process. I am also not confident you are fully informed, despite the links.

 

[Jake]

803322798328385537

That's a well done article. Good reporting on a subject that gets a lot of play around here.

 

[CuseOnly]

You are attacking an individual when its about process. I am also not confident you are fully informed, despite the links.

Show me once where I attacked Dr Tucker?

He is probably a great Family Practitioner but he is unqualified when there are light years better options out there to do this.

Still haven't read anything I wrote.

 

[jgeorge322]

Show me once where I attacked Dr Tucker?

He is probably a great Family Practitioner but he is unqualified when there are light years better options out there to do this.

Still haven't read anything I wrote.

I just read where you claimed you didnt attack dr tucker and then questioned his qualifications in the next sentence. Lol.