ESPN-ACC GOR: Time was Running Out

[chakka3421]

Western Michigan wants to join the ACC?

Meant WVA - fixed - but I am sure WMU would join in a heartbeat...

 

[Alsacs]

You think we have already committed to join at a specific time/date? After the 2026 what changes are going to occur to make us join in full? Is this your guess or do you have some information that I don't know about? One thing that is for sure is ND is great at managing leaks and only let out what they want out.

I have no concrete facts to support my belief of 2026 for Notre Dame, but that is when ND's new contract with NBC expires. Also, I think super-conferences will eventually form, and ND is already committing 5 games a year to the ACC and if B1G teams can't play ND each year and more major conferences expand and play more conference games there will be less games for non-conference scheduling. ND is going to play Navy, USC, Stanford, but you have already ended the Michigan series, and Michigan State and Purdue may not want to play or to take a couple breaks with the new 9 game B1G schedule. Especially Michigan State in 2016 who has South Florida, Alabama, and Notre Dame on the books for the non-conference.

I think ND is going to maintain its independence through this last NBC contract and eventually will join the ACC, but will significant influence on its configured. 5/12 games from 1 conference is quasi-membership, and first you commit 5 then 6 and eventually it could get to 8.

 

[tep624]

Outside of the ACC pulling a coup and getting Vandy or Penn State to join, which is unlikely, I think the most likely scenario is WVU or Cincy as a full member and Navy as a FB only to balance out ND. That way you fill the gap in the MD market, add a new market, and add an additional ACC ND game.

It's too bad that Maryland was the crack whore of the ACC.

 

[All4SU]

The ACC will not add UConn for two reasons:

1) It was their former state AG, Blumenthal, who initiated legal proceedings aganst the ACC. I know others took part as well. But, it was Connecticut who started it. ACC administrators and fans will not forget that anytime soon. They have two huge black marks against them ever joining. And, that is the absolute biggest.

2) They will never get the 80% vote required to gain acceptance. The football-first schools...FSU, Miami, Clemson, Tech, and VPI...will all vote against them. So will NCSU. Thats way more than enough to permanently block them. This league needs stronger football brands, and, they simply don't have it. That is the second big black mark against them. We have more than enough quality basketball programs to have the best league in the country.

We simply do not need them, and, they made lifetime enemies with the legal wrangling.

IMO, Cincinnati would stand a much better chance at being accepted.

See, no '' comment. Just as you requested.

Does NCST ever vote FOR anything? Every time I read something it seems to include them voting no on one proposal or another. They're like that guy at board meetings who just votes no out of principle all of the time because its his thing.

 

[All4SU]

I have no concrete facts to support my belief of 2026 for Notre Dame, but that is when ND's new contract with NBC expires. Also, I think super-conferences will eventually form, and ND is already committing 5 games a year to the ACC and if B1G teams can't play ND each year and more major conferences expand and play more conference games there will be less games for non-conference scheduling. ND is going to play Navy, USC, Stanford, but you have already ended the Michigan series, and Michigan State and Purdue may not want to play or to take a couple breaks with the new 9 game B1G schedule. Especially Michigan State in 2016 who has South Florida, Alabama, and Notre Dame on the books for the non-conference.

I think ND is going to maintain its independence through this last NBC contract and eventually will join the ACC, but will significant influence on its configured. 5/12 games from 1 conference is quasi-membership, and first you commit 5 then 6 and eventually it could get to 8.

I think ND is going to maintain their independence until pigs sprout wings and hell hosts an ice skating rink. I don't think ND EVER, EVER comes all in. I think the ACC should just tell ND, "Look, unless you give us reason to believe otherwise right now, we are going to assume you will never be on board." If you don't get something from them to indicate otherwise, plan accordingly. You don't have to cut them loose. But you don't have to just wait for something that's never going to happen either.

 

[Cusester]

You think we have already committed to join at a specific time/date? After the 2026 what changes are going to occur to make us join in full? Is this your guess or do you have some information that I don't know about? One thing that is for sure is ND is great at managing leaks and only let out what they want out.

Based on John Swofford's track record I'd bet that he has a plan to "persuade" ND into full membership. He had a plan back in 2003 that individual schools rebelled against and it cost the conference. He has now earned the trust of the ACC presidents (GOR agreement) and I expect him to find a way to pressure ND into full membership.

 

[TheCusian]

Why would Penn St, with 2 new Eastern teams joining, want to take less $$$ to join the ACC?

As the gulf shrinks monetarily, they might finally be fed up with how the conference treated them post Sandusky. Plus the two Eastern teams are crappy. They'd be trading in the Midwest for 12+ eastern teams - some with existing rivalries.

 

[Btstimpy]

The ACC will not add UConn for two reasons:

1) It was their former state AG, Blumenthal, who initiated legal proceedings aganst the ACC. I know others took part as well. But, it was Connecticut who started it. ACC administrators and fans will not forget that anytime soon. They have two huge black marks against them ever joining. And, that is the absolute biggest.

2) They will never get the 80% vote required to gain acceptance. The football-first schools...FSU, Miami, Clemson, Tech, and VPI...will all vote against them. So will NCSU. Thats way more than enough to permanently block them. This league needs stronger football brands, and, they simply don't have it. That is the second big black mark against them. We have more than enough quality basketball programs to have the best league in the country.

We simply do not need them, and, they made lifetime enemies with the legal wrangling.

IMO, Cincinnati would stand a much better chance at being accepted.

See, no '' comment. Just as you requested.

I understand all this, and we've discussed it here before on this board. But I think that BC and the ACC should get over that lawsuit. Virginia Tech and Pitt were part of that lawsuit, and they are in. Yes Richard Blumenthal liked TV cameras too much about it. I can see some of Connecticut's point with it. They had just spent $90 million on their stadium and was just upgrading to FBS level. They were seeing the ACC making the result of that work for naught. It didn't turn out that way, but that's how they saw it at the time. Blumenthal is gone, Lew Perkins is gone, Jim Calhoun is headed out the door, and UConn has a new President. I hope that the ACC removes the blackball over that lawsuit.

Your second point is a more valid one. Since UConn has only been playing FBS level football for a decade, they don't have much football tradition. But they have done well for as little time that they have been playing. Basketball speaks for itself. I say let the numbers tell the story regarding whether their DMA can drive enough additional revenue to the ACC Network to warrant admission. Let this be the input to make the decision, not the emotion of the 2002 lawsuit. The ACC is somewhat to blame for what went on in 2002. Swofford is much better today regarding expansion moves. In 2002 it was a circus. It took too long. The ACC was indecisive. The very public visits to Syracuse, BC, and Miami were a spectacle. I say put all that crap behind us now. Do what's best moving forward, and if Connecticut can help that the ACC should look at Connecticut.

 

[Alsacs]

I understand all this, and we've discussed it here before on this board. But I think that BC and the ACC should get over that lawsuit. Virginia Tech and Pitt were part of that lawsuit, and they are in. Yes Richard Blumenthal liked TV cameras too much about it. I can see some of Connecticut's point with it. They had just spent $90 million on their stadium and was just upgrading to FBS level. They were seeing the ACC making the result of that work for naught. It didn't turn out that way, but that's how they saw it at the time. Blumenthal is gone, Lew Perkins is gone, Jim Calhoun is headed out the door, and UConn has a new President. I hope that the ACC removes the blackball over that lawsuit.

Your second point is a more valid one. Since UConn has only been playing FBS level football for a decade, they don't have much football tradition. But they have done well for as little time that they have been playing. Basketball speaks for itself. I say let the numbers tell the story regarding whether their DMA can drive enough additional revenue to the ACC Network to warrant admission. Let this be the input to make the decision, not the emotion of the 2002 lawsuit. The ACC is somewhat to blame for what went on in 2002. Swofford is much better today regarding expansion moves. In 2002 it was a circus. It took too long. The ACC was indecisive. The very public visits to Syracuse, BC, and Miami were a spectacle. I say put all that crap behind us now. Do what's best moving forward, and if Connecticut can help that the ACC should look at Connecticut.

What ticked off the ACC about the lawsuit was that Blumenthal individually named John Swofford, Donna Shalala and other ACC administrators/Presidents as co-defendants and that caused a lot of stress. That is why that lawsuit digs deep in the ACC offices. I think UConn would get the invitation if they undoubtedly were the best school for expansion, but with equal options that will always be a stain on UConn.
Also, I don't know if your a lawyer or know much about the law, but the claims in the lawsuit were laughable, and the fact they didn't read the Big East bylaws before filing that lawsuit was dumb. Blumenthal settled the case once the ACC offered him something to save face, and before the ACC administrators had to take expensive depositons.

 

[arbitragegls]

Here's an article on the 4x4x4 committee and who was on it during the invitations of Syracuse and Pitt. Obviously some of the people have changed because Maryland was part of it, we have new members, and the BC Athletic Director retired. But this shows the structure.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...tried-to-keep-secret-20110926,0,1088304.story

Good find...note that the "Expansion Committee" was up and running for sometime prior to offers to 'Cuse/Pitt and continues to operate...of course, the 4X4X4 does have pieces moving in and out...purpose is to keep all ACC universities on their toes and to keep all individual wants and needs to the bare minimum...it is a conference committee that taps into its member schools. This group has played a significant role in the Notre Dame association as well as the GOR...it is the special forces of Swofford.

 

[baggerbob]

Everyone talks about Maryland, Rutgers good moves to BIG, but look what has actually happened. Colorado 6/10/2010 to Pac 12, Nebraska 6/11/2010 to Big, Utah 6/15/2010 to Pac 12, things settled down. Then things got interesting, Syracuse, Pittsburgh 9/18/2011 to ACC, Texas A@M 9/25/2011 to SEC, TCU 10/06/2011 to Big 12, West Virginia 10/27/2011 to Big 12, Missouri 11/06/2011 to SEC. Six teams moved in less then 2 months to ACC, SEC, Big 12 no moves by BIG. Then the big carrot Notre Dame 9/12/2011 moves Olympic sports and 5 football games to ACC, in one year 7 teams moved BIG did nothing. Their big move in reaction was to add Maryland, Rutgers 11/14/2012, schools losing money by the bucketful. ACC quickly adds Louisville 11/27/2011 to replace Maryland, when you look at all things the BIG was Played.

 

[HtownOrange]

Everyone talks about Maryland, Rutgers good moves to BIG, but look what has actually happened. Colorado 6/10/2010 to Pac 12, Nebraska 6/11/2010 to Big, Utah 6/15/2010 to Pac 12, things settled down. Then things got interesting, Syracuse, Pittsburgh 9/18/2011 to ACC, Texas A@M 9/25/2011 to SEC, TCU 10/06/2011 to Big 12, West Virginia 10/27/2011 to Big 12, Missouri 11/06/2011 to SEC. Six teams moved in less then 2 months to ACC, SEC, Big 12 no moves by BIG. Then the big carrot Notre Dame 9/12/2011 moves Olympic sports and 5 football games to ACC, in one year 7 teams moved BIG did nothing. Their big move in reaction was to add Maryland, Rutgers 11/14/2012, schools losing money by the bucketful. ACC quickly adds Louisville 11/27/2011 to replace Maryland, when you look at all things the BIG was Played.

The irony here is that the B1G, several years ago, had analyzed a couple dozen schools that would add value to the B1G/BTN. At that time, they could have had half or more of the teams they wanted, had they moved. Some were pipe dreams; ND, UT, UNC, UVA; while others were attainable. They couldn't agree and failed to make the necessary moves so their best options were seriously reduced, reduced to a point of taking a financially desperate school and a a completely desperate school.

 

[Alsacs]

Everyone talks about Maryland, Rutgers good moves to BIG, but look what has actually happened. Colorado 6/10/2010 to Pac 12, Nebraska 6/11/2010 to Big, Utah 6/15/2010 to Pac 12, things settled down. Then things got interesting, Syracuse, Pittsburgh 9/18/2011 to ACC, Texas A@M 9/25/2011 to SEC, TCU 10/06/2011 to Big 12, West Virginia 10/27/2011 to Big 12, Missouri 11/06/2011 to SEC. Six teams moved in less then 2 months to ACC, SEC, Big 12 no moves by BIG. Then the big carrot Notre Dame 9/12/2011 moves Olympic sports and 5 football games to ACC, in one year 7 teams moved BIG did nothing. Their big move in reaction was to add Maryland, Rutgers 11/14/2012, schools losing money by the bucketful. ACC quickly adds Louisville 11/27/2011 to replace Maryland, when you look at all things the BIG was Played.

I would say this while the Pac-12 has gotten into more cable boxes with Colorado and Utah those additions have been horrible on the field for the conference.

Colorado's football program is in worse shape now then when Doug Marrone took over for Greg Robinson and they have only contributed only 3 basketball credits to the Pac-12 coffers while Utah has made 1 bowl appearance and 0 NCAA credits to the Pac-12. The Pac-12 expansion has been worse than the B1G expansion so far. Nebraska is still a top 10 football brand and honestly was a crown jewel for the B1G and will be relied upon to carry the new B1G West division. Rutgers and Maryland are pure cable boxes additions for the BTN which will pay for their inclusion and both of them will be used as cannon fodder for Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State on the gridiron, and Maryland will be asked to contribute NCAA basketball credits.
Grading the conferences for their expansion moves IMO would be as followed.

SEC: A- (Texas A&M A+, allowed SEC recruiting into Texas, and has been a great addition, Missouri B, they are just another warm body that is decent in football and will help SEC basketball) GPA 3.67

ACC: B (Syracuse and Pitt C+, both bring above average basketball, mediocre football. They helped bring in more money from ESPN. Louisville B+, they bring in a potential top 25 football and basketball team each year. Notre Dame non-football B: they bring 5 football games annually, mediocre basketball, and help give a potential ACC Network a national brand for its network. GPA 3.00


B1G: B- (Nebraska A, they are a top 10 brand in football and were a good addition, Maryland B-, decent college brand nationally bring solid hoops, and horrible football and give the BTN the Baltimore media market, Rutgers C-, they bring mediocre football and horrible hoops, and are pawns who bring nothing more the FOX purchase of YES will have a greater impact on getting the BTN on in NYC than RU being in the B1G. GPA 2.67

Pac-12: D (they went from Texas,Oklahoma, and friends to Utah and Colorado. Colorado D, they have the worst football in the BCS right now, and better than expected hoops for the conference. Also, they have brought the Colorado cable boxes, Utah D, they are basically the opposite of Colorado, horrible basketball, and decent football and brought Utah cable boxes. GPA 1.0

 

[riskylogic]

I think ND is going to maintain its independence through this last NBC contract and eventually will join the ACC, but will significant influence on its configured. 5/12 games from 1 conference is quasi-membership, and first you commit 5 then 6 and eventually it could get to 8.

I think this is exactly right. ND is committed to maintaining some semblance of independence for at least another 12 years. In the mean time, the next step is to get a sixth game. Since they would not be losing a traditional rival, the best candidate for that is to hijack the neutral site "Shamrock"series that ACC teams have been involved with in in the past. The MetLife games and playing in Europe could be a part of that. After six happens, then discussion of a seven game schedule in a 16 team conference could begin in earnest. Seven games would allow for a full divisional schedule, and could allow ND to compete for the ACC championship.

 

[baggerbob]

The only problem I have with the idea Maryland brings in the cable boxes. If they couldn't make money when they were in a conference with their peers, how are they supposed to be viable for the Big? Just because you are in a big population area doesn't mean anyone cares. The Baltimore, Washington DC area is filled with professional teams if Maryland sports went away, no-one but Alums would care. The fans on the other ACC boards don't really care that Maryland is gone. They have empathy for their fans, who didn't want it, but to them it isn't a big deal. Maryland, Rutgers are both C- at best, probably closer to a D+, a reach by the BIG to try to not look like they were caught unaware.

 

[CU44SE]

Iv stated this before, but conference realignment is done for the next 10 years. That is 2 years before the Big 12 Grant of Rights is set to expire (the earliest GOR expiration date) and their will be potential realignment talk then. The only way that realignment happens sooner then that is if the BIG 12 collapses, and no one is there to collect the GOR. The only way that is possible is if Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas are picked off, then every conference will be in a feeding frenzy to acquire the other teams.

I do have one question however, because I do not know how these things work. If the big 12 were to add 2 more teams to get to 12 and a championship game, would that cancel the GOR because it would reopen their tv contract, and I would assume the stipulations in the GOR would change because it would be a different conference from what people originally signed up for? I just know that there are always clauses in contracts, and there may be a way around the GOR if the big 12 were to add teams.

 

[Resonator]

Does NCST ever vote FOR anything? Every time I read something it seems to include them voting no on one proposal or another. They're like that guy at board meetings who just votes no out of principle all of the time because its his thing.

Yes, they do. They voted for expansion from the outset, while Carolina has been against it. They've taken a more pro-football stance where the ACC's future is concerned. Thats something I wish UNC would do.

As much as I like to poke fun at the Wolfpackers, and, accuse them of having 'little brother sydrome' where Carolina is concerned, they were absolutely spot on in voting against UConn. They know we're set for the future in basketball. Football is where the foreseeable future lies. And, UConn just doesn't move the needle for that. Cincinnati has had a very good past 5-6 seasons on the gridiron, and, they have a good basketball history to boot. I feel like they'd get a positive vote if we had to pick a No 16 in the near future.

Just my .02 worth...

 

[Btstimpy]

The only problem I have with the idea Maryland brings in the cable boxes. If they couldn't make money when they were in a conference with their peers, how are they supposed to be viable for the Big? Just because you are in a big population area doesn't mean anyone cares. The Baltimore, Washington DC area is filled with professional teams if Maryland sports went away, no-one but Alums would care. The fans on the other ACC boards don't really care that Maryland is gone. They have empathy for their fans, who didn't want it, but to them it isn't a big deal. Maryland, Rutgers are both C- at best, probably closer to a D+, a reach by the BIG to try to not look like they were caught unaware.

Bingo. Maryland has been having problems running their athletic department financially for 3 decades. Back in the early 90s they were selling their home football games with Florida State to Jacksonville for money. Then when Wake Forest started doing it the ACC put a stop on it because it was not fair for FSU to play their road games in Jacksonville.

As a UVA fan who is supposed to be their rival, I won't miss Maryland. We've played them in 180 basketball games, and few are memorable. See ya later terps! How can we help you pack?

 

[Btstimpy]

What ticked off the ACC about the lawsuit was that Blumenthal individually named John Swofford, Donna Shalala and other ACC administrators/Presidents as co-defendants and that caused a lot of stress. That is why that lawsuit digs deep in the ACC offices. I think UConn would get the invitation if they undoubtedly were the best school for expansion, but with equal options that will always be a stain on UConn.
Also, I don't know if your a lawyer or know much about the law, but the claims in the lawsuit were laughable, and the fact they didn't read the Big East bylaws before filing that lawsuit was dumb. Blumenthal settled the case once the ACC offered him something to save face, and before the ACC administrators had to take expensive depositons.

I understand, and we've discussed it before. I personally want Penn State. I aim high. And I also think that under the right circumstances (i.e. the right President hire by Penn State) that they might come to the ACC. I also don't like the Big Ten Conference. But regarding alternatives, I don't want to rule out UConn over that 2002 lawsuit. This decision is too important for the long term.

 

[Alsacs]

I think this is exactly right. ND is committed to maintaining some semblance of independence for at least another 12 years. In the mean time, the next step is to get a sixth game. Since they would not be losing a traditional rival, the best candidate for that is to hijack the neutral site "Shamrock"series that ACC teams have been involved with in in the past. The MetLife games and playing in Europe could be a part of that. After six happens, then discussion of a seven game schedule in a 16 team conference could begin in earnest. Seven games would allow for a full divisional schedule, and could allow ND to compete for the ACC championship.

I think the Shamrock game is going to stay with NBC as part of their 7 NBC games a year, but if Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami would rotate as a Shamrock game for ND then they could play 6 ACC games a year, and play 2 home, 1 Shamrock, and 3 ACC road games. That 6th game would be a good paycheck game for those 6 schools from ND and would help the ACC/ESPN, and give ND a name opponent for their Shamrock series. Playing BC in Foxboro, SU in Metlife, Duke/Wake in BOA/Georgia Dome, Miami in Chicago, Pittsburgh in Philly or wherever. I think ND is going to eventually join a conference when the B1G expands their conference schedules and ND won't be guaranteed playing Purdue/Michigan State each year they will have less automatic games on their schedule. ND plays 5 teams every year right now USC, Stanford, Navy, Michigan State, and Purdue. Notre Dame dumped Michigan last year which was their 6th annual opponent. Typically ND sprinkles in Boston College, Pittsburgh, 1 Shamrock game, and one of Air Force/Army/BYU.

However, now with the 5 ACC games they are going to play 5 ACC games, Navy, USC, Stanford, Michigan State, Purdue, and 1 Shamrock game and only 1 open slot. ND's schedule doesn't have much freedom anymore with only 1 open slot they are quasi-ACC football members.

 

[Alsacs]

I understand, and we've discussed it before. I personally want Penn State. I aim high. And I also think that under the right circumstances (i.e. the right President hire by Penn State) that they might come to the ACC. I also don't like the Big Ten Conference. But regarding alternatives, I don't want to rule out UConn over that 2002 lawsuit. This decision is too important for the long term.

If Debbie Yow didn't kill the Maryland AD office and settle it in so much in debt then Maryland wouldn't have left and B1G would have had a FA school in Penn State after the 2016 season when their TV contract expired. Delany realized Penn State was PISSED at him and the B1G for how they piled on after Sandusky sanctions and Penn State would have listened to the ACC. Barry Alvarez confirmed the additions of Rutgers/Maryland were to solidify Penn State. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/182573751.html

When talking about another league obviously they are referring to the ACC. Delany did a preemptive strike against the ACC and took the weakest school. Thus, if Debbie Yow didn't suck at her job so bad she destroyed Maryland's books they wouldn't have been desperate to leave. What the ACC should have done is gotten together all the member schools and balanced Maryland's sheets and had them take a 1 million dollars less as long as it took to pay back the advance and kept them in the conference. However, Maryland's new leadership came from the B1G and wanted to create a new legacy at the school. Thus, if Maryland wasn't desperate I think Penn State/Notre Dame was the grand plan of Swofford and that league would have been the 2nd best overall conference in football, and best basketball, and best academic conference in the BCS. However, Maryland buckled and Penn State is solid B1G forever IMO.

 

[Btstimpy]

If Debbie Yow didn't kill the Maryland AD office and settle it in so much in debt then Maryland wouldn't have left and B1G would have had a FA school in Penn State after the 2016 season when their TV contract expired. Delany realized Penn State was PISSED at him and the B1G for how they piled on after Sandusky sanctions and Penn State would have listened to the ACC. Barry Alvarez confirmed the additions of Rutgers/Maryland were to solidify Penn State. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/182573751.html

When talking about another league obviously they are referring to the ACC. Delany did a preemptive strike against the ACC and took the weakest school. Thus, if Debbie Yow didn't suck at her job so bad she destroyed Maryland's books they wouldn't have been desperate to leave. What the ACC should have done is gotten together all the member schools and balanced Maryland's sheets and had them take a 1 million dollars less as long as it took to pay back the advance and kept them in the conference. However, Maryland's new leadership came from the B1G and wanted to create a new legacy at the school. Thus, if Maryland wasn't desperate I think Penn State/Notre Dame was the grand plan of Swofford and that league would have been the 2nd best overall conference in football, and best basketball, and best academic conference in the BCS. However, Maryland buckled and Penn State is solid B1G forever IMO.

Maryland's athletic department was a financial mess when Debbie Yow got there. They were bankrupt in the early 90s, and they were selling their home football games against FSU to Jacksonville. Then when Wake Forest started doing it too, the ACC stopped it. It wasn't fair for FSU to play their road conference games in Jacksonville. Maryland is a mess, always has been a mess, and will continue to be one in the Big Ten.

Regarding Penn State, this article is the ACC's selling point. Demographics. Don't you want access to Florida for your enrollment? You won't get that in Michigan.

http://articles.mcall.com/2013-04-2...0426_1_university-park-lisa-powers-penn-state

 

[Alsacs]

Maryland's athletic department was a financial mess when Debbie Yow got there. They were bankrupt in the early 90s, and they were selling their home football games against FSU to Jacksonville. Then when Wake Forest started doing it too, the ACC stopped it. It wasn't fair for FSU to play their road conference games in Jacksonville. Maryland is a mess, always has been a mess, and will continue to be one in the Big Ten.

Regarding Penn State, this article is the ACC's selling point. Demographics. Don't you want access to Florida for your enrollment? You won't get that in Michigan.

http://articles.mcall.com/2013-04-2...0426_1_university-park-lisa-powers-penn-state

Well to that end Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Illinois(all B1G footprint) lost EVs and population from the last census while Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida(SEC/ACC footprint) gained EVs and population from the last census.

Also, on the Maryland unlike Rutgers which subsidize its AD by taking millions of dollars from the RU General fund and making all the student essentially subsidize RU football and the AD's deficits Maryland was forbidden to do this under Maryland law. Maryland will be a mess in the B1G, but with the fact the B1G is guaranteeing them 35-40 million a year in TV revenue they will be able to balance their sheets with that money. The ACC could have loaned them the money to balance their sheets and made them pay it back in small amounts, but Maryland wasn't the most important university in the conference. Maryland, Wake Forest, and Duke all sold games to Jacksonville from what I remember. I remember visiting a family member when I was younger in Duval County, Florida and Duke-Florida State were playing a football game at then Alltel Stadium.

Penn State is going to leave the B1G now that they have tomato cans in RU/Maryland to beat up on and give their alums easy road games to attend to now. The B1G will always be able to pay more than the ACC because of BTN and Penn State won't take less money to move. If the B1G didn't placate PSU with RU/Maryland and Notre Dame joined then maybe, but now I am pretty confident they won't move.

 

[Chris02M]

I think the Shamrock game is going to stay with NBC as part of their 7 NBC games a year, but if Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami would rotate as a Shamrock game for ND then they could play 6 ACC games a year, and play 2 home, 1 Shamrock, and 3 ACC road games. That 6th game would be a good paycheck game for those 6 schools from ND and would help the ACC/ESPN, and give ND a name opponent for their Shamrock series. Playing BC in Foxboro, SU in Metlife, Duke/Wake in BOA/Georgia Dome, Miami in Chicago, Pittsburgh in Philly or wherever. I think ND is going to eventually join a conference when the B1G expands their conference schedules and ND won't be guaranteed playing Purdue/Michigan State each year they will have less automatic games on their schedule. ND plays 5 teams every year right now USC, Stanford, Navy, Michigan State, and Purdue. Notre Dame dumped Michigan last year which was their 6th annual opponent. Typically ND sprinkles in Boston College, Pittsburgh, 1 Shamrock game, and one of Air Force/Army/BYU.

However, now with the 5 ACC games they are going to play 5 ACC games, Navy, USC, Stanford, Michigan State, Purdue, and 1 Shamrock game and only 1 open slot. ND's schedule doesn't have much freedom anymore with only 1 open slot they are quasi-ACC football members.

the nd-purdue series has already being ended in 2016 for the time being


@TJamesNDI: Purdue AD. RT ‏@carminjc Burke said ND series now "off cycle" w/ #B1G going to 9 games starting in 2016

 

[Resonator]

I understand all this, and we've discussed it here before on this board. But I think that BC and the ACC should get over that lawsuit. Virginia Tech and Pitt were part of that lawsuit, and they are in. Yes Richard Blumenthal liked TV cameras too much about it.

Blumenthal made the lawsuit personal. That created the hard feelings towards UConn that last to today. And, will for the foreseeable future.

I can see some of Connecticut's point with it. They had just spent $90 million on their stadium and was just upgrading to FBS level. They were seeing the ACC making the result of that work for naught. It didn't turn out that way, but that's how they saw it at the time.

UConn took a risk, and, it didn't work out. That is not the ACC's fault.

Blumenthal is gone, Lew Perkins is gone, Jim Calhoun is headed out the door, and UConn has a new President. I hope that the ACC removes the blackball over that lawsuit.

That is irrelevant. The damage is done. Even if the blackball is lifted, there are only two schools UConn could remotely call allies...UNC and Duke. And, we all know why that is.

Your second point is a more valid one. Since UConn has only been playing FBS level football for a decade, they don't have much football tradition. But they have done well for as little time that they have been playing. Basketball speaks for itself. I say let the numbers tell the story regarding whether their DMA can drive enough additional revenue to the ACC Network to warrant admission.

If that were the only consideration, they'd probably be in the ACC right now. But, its not. Hoops is not even a consideration in conference realignment. It never has been. And, it never will be. Its about football, and, they don't do anything to lift our profile in that regard.

Let this be the input to make the decision, not the emotion of the 2002 lawsuit. The ACC is somewhat to blame for what went on in 2002. Swofford is much better today regarding expansion moves. In 2002 it was a circus. It took too long. The ACC was indecisive. The very public visits to Syracuse, BC, and Miami were a spectacle. I say put all that crap behind us now. Do what's best moving forward, and if Connecticut can help that the ACC should look at Connecticut.

If it were quite that simple, they'd probably have been invited by now. But, its not that simple. I know it, you know, they know it, everybody knows it.

I respectfully disagree that the ACC was at fault back in 2002-2003, even partially.

The ACC's original expansion was going well, until VA's governor, Mark Warner, stepped in on VPI's behalf. Thats when things went sideways. I don't blame Gov Warner for intervening. He was looking out for their best interests. Thats what he is supposed to do. Had he not done so, Miami, Syracuse, and, BC joining the ACC would've come off smoothly.

Truth be told, had Miami not demanded BC be included in the original expansion, they probably would not be in the ACC, either. It most likely would have been Pitt.

Whether anybody likes it or not, the lawsuit is a consideration. And, it will be for a long time, where UConn is concerned. When Blumenthal made it personal, he alienated not just ACC officials, and, university administrators. He alienated ACC fans, too. Many will never forget that. Hard feelings remain towards him, and, by connection, UConn. Fairly, or, unfairly.

Lets be brutally honest here...UNC and Duke aside, they don't excite any other original ACC member (and thats strictly for hoops). FSU neither. Every expansion the league has undertaken has been for football. This last one was no different. They bring nothing to us in that regard. No excitement, not buzz, no anticipation. So, we have no reason to even entertain inviting them.