ESPN's David Hale ranked how he has ACC schools talent by position. | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

ESPN's David Hale ranked how he has ACC schools talent by position.

I believe our D also lit up some top 15 Louisville offenses led by Bridgewater. Totally unfair to say he wasnt a very good DC. He made so many players better including converting #32 from a rb to a pro lb. Producing at least 6 pros off the top of my head... Our D could play with anyone.
Yes it could. Keep in mind Shafer had a a depleted team after Doug got rid of 20 kids. He turned 2 star kids like Chandler and Thomas into studs. Former RB's in Houge and Smith into great LB's. I can only imagine how good Shafer's scheme would be with 4 or 5 star players.
 
Our 3rd down D was luck.
It evened out at the end of the year where we couldn't stop anyone.
The D deserved more wins for its play early on i.e. MTSU/LSU/FSU games and the O was gaining yards but not enough points.

Our D talent wasn't a lot. Dino is working on building depth not just a few guys who can play but surviving injuries.
3rd down stops early on were not luck. They were pretty effecient due to some guys making plays. We were a solid unit that showed huge progress from the year before. It got bad during the 2nd half of Wake, and the Louisville and BC games. It was some of the worse defense Ive seen. Im sure a lot of the stats came from those 3 games.
 
Excellent respect for ED. That said, defensive ratings of 14, 13, 13 across the board for our D is scary but probably spot on. Think the Dline can leave that rating in the dust and be at least 5-7 in the league. Love McKinley and the size and speed of our ends of course led by CS. The backers and secondary will be an uphill battle.
Dino has said that our def may be better than our offense this year...if you go by Hale's ratings, you'd say it's going to be a long year. I think Dino knows what he has. Even if you go with those ranks, I think the gap has become so small, that it'll be good enough for a bowl.
 
Yes it could. Keep in mind Shafer had a a depleted team after Doug got rid of 20 kids. He turned 2 star kids like Chandler and Thomas into studs. Former RB's in Houge and Smith into great LB's. I can only imagine how good Shafer's scheme would be with 4 or 5 star players.

AMEN, so, the ridiculous posts by so called veterans on this board killing SS as a DC is flat out rubbish and dumb. Give me a break. We could only hope for schematics half of what SS did in this DINO era. SS killed it with 2 star guys. So, now we are playing the T2 with 3-4 star guys and its been embarrassing. Give me a break for the LOVE of God.
 
AMEN, so, the ridiculous posts by so called veterans on this board killing SS as a DC is flat out rubbish and dumb. Give me a break. We could only hope for schematics half of what SS did in this DINO era. SS killed it with 2 star guys. So, now we are playing the T2 with 3-4 star guys and its been embarrassing. Give me a break for the LOVE of God.

It's preposterous to think what we've seen over past few years is better than what Scott had on defense. We had a defensive identity which was getting at the QB and creating turnovers. Dino's defense has been bad. I don't know how any reasonable person can argue this. I'm optimistic it changes this year but right now if someone told me Shafer was rehired as D-Coordinator, i'd be happy b/c the results were not bad.
 
It's preposterous to think what we've seen over past few years is better than what Scott had on defense. We had a defensive identity which was getting at the QB and creating turnovers. Dino's defense has been bad. I don't know how any reasonable person can argue this. I'm optimistic it changes this year but right now if someone told me Shafer was rehired as D-Coordinator, i'd be happy b/c the results were not bad.

There would be a friggin party in the quad. For the LOVE of God, i love Dino and his system but anyone associated with him...trainer or coach or his secretary isnt gold just because. So , let's quit the BS and think intelligently. Right now qe employ a defensive system that is designed to not stop the offense too quickly. No sudden changes in possession. Let's bend, not break and give the offense a blow. Yes, there was serious talk of that approach and its laughable. You stop an offense whenever you can, as quickly as you can, anyway you can. Geeeeezzz...
 
Prove it I remember 2 times against LSU the QB made awful passes that were open for first downs. That killed drives.
Against NC State when we couldn't stop them from running we got lucky their coaching was stupid and called for passes.
Any time other than against Pitt where the D was dominant as I remember that game we had several 3rd downs the opponent did us a favor.
It is not to take away credit from how our D played. In the first 8 games they were awesome and deserved more success. It was just flukey.
Anytime we get an incomplete pass against P5 team I have been shocked these past years. That is how bad our D has been.

I think you’re remembering what you want to

I’ll dig into the numbers and rewatch some more games. I just rewatched the Pitt game and it was Bennett, Franklin, Martin, and Scoop making plays. Literally knocking the ball from WR’s hands, dropping guys after two steps, etc. Pitt didn’t have a 3rd down conversion until the 2nd to last drive
 
It's preposterous to think what we've seen over past few years is better than what Scott had on defense. We had a defensive identity which was getting at the QB and creating turnovers. Dino's defense has been bad. I don't know how any reasonable person can argue this. I'm optimistic it changes this year but right now if someone told me Shafer was rehired as D-Coordinator, i'd be happy b/c the results were not bad.

They’ve not been better, but the competition has gotten way better. Top 50 when Shafer was D coordinator, Top 30 when he was HC. Under Babers - top 10 comp.
 
I think you’re remembering what you want to

I’ll dig into the numbers and rewatch some more games. I just rewatched the Pitt game and it was Bennett, Franklin, Martin, and Scoop making plays. Literally knocking the ball from WR’s hands, dropping guys after two steps, etc. Pitt didn’t have a 3rd down conversion until the 2nd to last drive
Yup, all the games are on you tube. The difference in the defense from game 1 to 12 is astounding. It doesnt take much to see the difference. We havent been a good defensive team so when we actually do get stops, its pretty obvious and we were getting stops earlier in the season. We went from giving up 24 and 27 points to giving up 64, 56 and 42. I am as critical on our defense as any but I give credit when its due. We were actually looking like a decent defense at one point. Then it got ugly.
 
to me this year will be the telling year where dino is trending. he either makes a reasonable splash to help recruiting or falls short.
he had us in position to win games that we lost last year. we won a game we were not supposed and lost a game early that we were not supposed to.
in order to recruit we have to win some unexpected games. wish us the best,
 
There would be a friggin party in the quad. For the LOVE of God, i love Dino and his system but anyone associated with him...trainer or coach or his secretary isnt gold just because. So , let's quit the BS and think intelligently. Right now qe employ a defensive system that is designed to not stop the offense too quickly. No sudden changes in possession. Let's bend, not break and give the offense a blow. Yes, there was serious talk of that approach and its laughable. You stop an offense whenever you can, as quickly as you can, anyway you can. Geeeeezzz...

So Dino does not want sudden changes in possession or quick stops? Bend don't break is more about playing with a lead (which we have not done often enough) and forcing the other team to be over aggressive and make mistakes. Shafer's style was certainly more about attacking, but I think we are over analyzing things here. Both DCs want quick stops and turnovers.
 
This analysis is inherently flawed. The overall ranking is simpling the aritmetic average for each category. Thus, having the #1 QB is considered just as important as having the #1 ST, for example.
 
AMEN, so, the ridiculous posts by so called veterans on this board killing SS as a DC is flat out rubbish and dumb. Give me a break. We could only hope for schematics half of what SS did in this DINO era. SS killed it with 2 star guys. So, now we are playing the T2 with 3-4 star guys and its been embarrassing. Give me a break for the LOVE of God.
He was a good defensive coach. This good quality was washed out by his pitiful recruiting.
 
When Shafer's starting QB was in the game, he was a good coach. When Shafer had to rely on 3rd and 4th string QB's, he was a poor coach. When Dino's starting QB is in the game, the team has been good. When Dino has to rely on backups, the team has been bad.
 
When Shafer's starting QB was in the game, he was a good coach. When Shafer had to rely on 3rd and 4th string QB's, he was a poor coach. When Dino's starting QB is in the game, the team has been good. When Dino has to rely on backups, the team has been bad.

I think this is not inaccurate but i'm fairly confident that Syracuse has a better HC in Dino than we had in Shafer. Any coach suffers from having a backup. I am leaning on the D issue more than the HC issue. Dino commands respect and ultimately it will pay off in wins. Shafer's D was something I enjoyed as a fan. I love attacking D at the college level because it really puts pressure on QBs to make the right decision.

It's weird to think about it but Pasqualoni ran the craziest pro style option with DeLeone in the 90s and I can't remember (and i started watching in 1992) any of the starting qbs going down during that period of time from 1992-1999. Even Kevin Mason, all 120 lbs of him, withstood a whole season.

Imagine if P lost Graves or McNabb for portions of those seasons.
 
When Shafer's starting QB was in the game, he was a good coach. When Shafer had to rely on 3rd and 4th string QB's, he was a poor coach. When Dino's starting QB is in the game, the team has been good. When Dino has to rely on backups, the team has been bad.
It's not worth it anymore. Shafer's hiring set us back. I personally think he gets too much credit for his defense. He was an average P5 DC no more no less in my eyes. He has himself to blame for Dungey's injury against Louisville no sane coach in their right mind leaves their starting QB in a game they are down 4 TDs in the 4th Q a week after pulling the same QB in the same situation at Florida State.
We hired a cheap HC and got what we paid for. However because he talked blue collar and said insane stuff like Lock 'em up people love him. Well people can love him but thank god he is gone as HC.

This HC gets it. He inherited the least talented team in the conference and complete rebuild. Most of the fanbase realizes that.
In 2 years as HC he has 1 player drafted in the NFL draft. That is the talent he was left.
 
This quote from Hale is pretty damning: "We analyzed the advanced stats in nearly a dozen categories from last year and were hard pressed to find one that Syracuse didn't rank dead last in. On passing downs last year -- when the defense should have the advantage - the Orange allowed 64 percent completions and nearly 9 yards per attempt. We're not even sure how that's possible. "

The 64% completion percentage and 9 yards per attempt on third down are horrific. Its clear the D fell apart the last quarter + of the season if not more.

But a former player's father told us it wasn't the defense fault and they weren't that bad...:bat:
 
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He explains on rankings. Here

Looking at the composite we have a talent problem that Dino is cleaning up. He wasn't left depth. Last year's Seniors Ish/Irv/Zaire/Bennett were really huge.

It is good our QB/OL are trending up. However our biggest problem has been talent on defense. Dino hopefully has these underclassmen ready to contribute at the P5 level this year or at worst by next year.

Dungey is going to have to carry us to 6 wins.
No excuse for us not developing defensive talent to be competitve. If BC can do it we can soon. Dino has had to overhaul the defensive talent.


I think he is clearly underrating our D Line.
 

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