Everybody still on board with the new transfer rule?

[djcon57]

if you don't like it take your skills and HIT THE MARKET . and good luck.

and if you do choose to hit the market, I’ll be here to say “you’re not ready!!”

 

[IthacaMatt]

students athletes on scholarship carry zero debt. that $66 % + number is from the Hamilton project and numerous other studies. not something i made up. so again if you have a chance to get a FREE education at a prestigious university by all means take it.

College grads, not athletes for whom it is free.

The other person's argument was "Look at the value of college! That's worth $100-200K. Where are they going to get jobs that pay them that much."

And I say BS. College isn't anywhere close to the value of the sticker price.

How many college grads can earn that much in any field, and how much debt will they have when they get out? What are their job prospects? How long should they expect before they are debt free - 10 to 20 years?

College is the biggest bubble coming, and ironically, I think it's going to be the collapse of. big money TV contracts for college sports that's going to bankrupt many of these institutions, or at least force them to seriously down-size their operations when that TV money is gone. Make sure you get all your big capital improvement projects paid for in these next 5 years or so, before the next big renegotiation comes up.

 

[tbonezone]

you want to pay kids on academic scholarship as well ? music ? they're talented.

 

[JustPherU]

I strongly disagree with this. I was a college athlete and transferred from one school to another, but dropped the sports when I transferred to the better academic school.

Ironically enough, at the state school where I started out, some of the educational experiences were better than at the prestigious institution.

I am better for the experience of knowing that college can be "different things" and still deliver value and perspective. And then when I went to law school, that was at night, while I worked during the day.

That was maybe the best educational experience of them all, because everyone who was there was (1) really committed and not wasting other people's time with self-serving comments in class, and (2) everyone had day jobs, and so you had people with real-life experiences who could almost always weigh in with perspective on a case that we were studying.

I think that thinking that college for everyone is the same as your experience is a risk, if you don't encourage some freedom of movement. Some people are not ready for college when they start. Sometimes they flunk out, and have to start over somewhere else.

Education is a journey that hopefully lasts you a lifetime. I don't think your education is harmed at all by getting it in more than one place.

Don’t let school get in the way of your education.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

the cost of tuition , board, equipment ,travel etc ain't free. don't tell me these kids don't receive compensation for playing.

Well, the IRS says they are compensated. Room and board are taxable.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Oh, please. They're getting nowhere near their market value. That's like telling a travelling salesman he should work for room and board because the cost of the travel, office space, housing, meals, etc ain't free. Anybody in any field would laugh an offer like that out of the room, but these kids are more or less coerced




Then stop watching. I doubt anyone will care. Man, the privilege in this post.

Most athletic departments lose money. The money made HAS to pay for all of the sports that make absolutely no revenue.
The athletic departments actually pay the school for the kids attending the school.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

No, revenue from TV/tix/concessions/merch.



I would think you'd be able to play all players in all sports the same % cut of the revenue generated in their sport, so the non-revenue sports would get little/nothing.

I don’t think Title IX would allow that. All must be treated equally by the schools.

 

[Bayside44]

Source?
Link?

A conversation with Jim Boeheim changed my mind about paying college athletes

Liberal columnist Sam Bova had the chance to talk to head basketball coach Jim Boeheim about paying college athletes. Boeheim changed his mind.

dailyorange.com

 

[pokercuse08]

average basketball career is 4.5 years if by slim chance you ever get do picked up (about 2%) average bachelor degree gets you 66% more earnings lifetime than HS degree. so you think getting a free education, national showcase to play the game you love while getting an education is not worth the time you invest competing at the collegiate level. rather foolish and shortsighted i'd say for the vast majority of players who'll never earn a dime professionally . the lucky few ?...go play elsewhere for 5 years and then figure out what to do for the rest of your life with your HS degree.

1. The average career length being so short makes my case, not yours. These schools are taking a HUGE chunk of their earning potential for a super rare and special skillset with a shelf life.

2. The education is only of value to them if they finish the degree and want to use it. For those who have their sights entirely set on professional basketball, the education may have little/no value. You can call that short sighted, but they 're chasing a dream and trying to cash in on talent that they've spent 10-15 years working to develop.

3. They don't necessarily need a national showcase, they just need scouts to see them.

you want to pay kids on academic scholarship as well ? music ? they're talented.

In case you're wondering, this is the moment when everyone knew you were losing the argument. You're flailing. This comparison makes no sense.

 

[tbonezone]

1. The average career length being so short makes my case, not yours. These schools are taking a HUGE chunk of their earning potential for a super rare and special skillset with a shelf life.

2. The education is only of value to them if they finish the degree and want to use it. For those who have their sights entirely set on professional basketball, the education may have little/no value. You can call that short sighted, but they 're chasing a dream and trying to cash in on talent that they've spent 10-15 years working to develop.

3. They don't necessarily need a national showcase, they just need scouts to see them.



In case you're wondering, this is the moment when everyone knew you were losing the argument. You're flailing. This comparison makes no sense.

now wait a sec. you want to pay all of them. equal i assume. most aren't even super rare skillsets.(see 2 %) in fact if they get injured or leave they are replaced same game. play on. try doing that with a cellist.

 

[pokercuse08]

now wait a sec. you want to pay all of them. equal i assume. most aren't even super rare skillsets.(see 2 %) in fact if they get injured or leave they are replaced same game. play on. try doing that with a cellist.

Do you still not realize how bad your musician argument is? C'mon. I'm giving you another chance to walk this one back.

And they are super rare skillsets, out of all of the kids who play high school basketball (over half a million), what, a couple thousand go on to play college ball on scholarship? There are about 4,000 D1 scholarships, tough to figure out how many per class since some go to four year players and some go to one and done's. But you're talking about less than 1% of all high school basketball players. Now add in all the people who wanted to play high school basketball but weren't good enough.

It's a super rare skillset.

Just admit that you like things the way they are/were and don't want them to change because it would impact your experience as a fan, and you don't really care what's best or most fair for the kids playing. That's what this argument always comes down to.

 

[jncuse]

A conversation with Jim Boeheim changed my mind about paying college athletes

Liberal columnist Sam Bova had the chance to talk to head basketball coach Jim Boeheim about paying college athletes. Boeheim changed his mind.

dailyorange.com

Per article it states $1,400 per month and not clear whether its for 12 months a year. Not $4,000 / month for the full year

70% less is a big difference is it not?

And how can anyone have any issue with the $1,400 of out of pocket costs (possibly for only a portion of the year).. How else are they supposed to make money to cover any costs of entertainment? Otherwise we get into the world of petty illegal benefits. They have no ability to earn anything to cover such "pocket costs" because they have full time obligations to the basketball team plus maintaining their school grades and are restricted in their ability to take on certain jobs.

 

[pokercuse08]

$1,400 per month. Not $4,000.
Big difference.

And that's only during the school year, so we're talking about like $18K a year. The G-League is $35K, and unless it's changed since I was broadcasting (then) D-League games, they get room and I think board during the season, too.

That $18K by the way is for the ones who qualify for Pell Grants, without that it's $13K, and it represents their board.

 

[tbonezone]

98% take their "super skill " to men's rec league. that don't pay . college degree does. surrender.

 

[Bayside44]

Per article it states $1,400 per month and not clear whether its for 12 months a year. Not $4,000 / month for the full year

70% less is a big difference is it not?

$2000 adding in the Pell Grant. Which for a 19 year getting free food and housing doesn't stink. If they're supposed to kick the money somewhere else there are bigger issues anyway.

 

[jncuse]

$2000 adding in the Pell Grant. Which for a 19 year getting free food and housing doesn't stink. If they're supposed to kick the money somewhere else there are bigger issues anyway.

You are moving the goalposts now.

I asked for a source for the $4,000/month or $40,000 a year. You claimed Boeheim talks about it all the time. So I asked for it.

You could not provide evidence that was anywhere close to it.

 

[rrlbees]

Post in thread '#notncaaproperty'
#notncaaproperty

 

[Bayside44]

Moving the goalposts now.

No just not your researcher. They get money. It's not supposed to be a job. The money isn't supposed to go to anyone other than the kid.

The system is a joke anyway.

 

[pokercuse08]

98% take their "super skill " to men's rec league. that don't pay . college degree does. surrender.

The college degree is worthless to the ones who don't graduate. While the graduation rate across the sport is around 80%, it's more like 50% among P5 teams/tournament teams. And on top of some of the players going pro, many others end up coaching full-time as a career. While a degree can be in a related field, chances are the vast majority of the skills that empower them to go on to coach are picked up from the sport, not from the classroom.

You failed to address your musician comparison.

1. Musicians on scholarship for their talent can still make money off their talent on their own time.

2. They're not combining to generate a billion dollars a year in revenue for their schools. If that begins to be the case, yeah, they should get paid.

In the mean time it's just a dumb comparison in an attempt to distract from the real issue at hand: a bunch of stubborn old (mostly) men, from fans to coaches, don't want things to change because they're personally enjoying things the way they are and not suffering any consequences.

 

[jncuse]

No just not your researcher. They get money. It's not supposed to be a job. The money isn't supposed to go to anyone other than the kid.

The system is a joke anyway.

Moving the goalposts again.

You claimed Boeheim talked about this $4,000 / month benefit all the time. I didn't ask you to do research for me. I asked you to substantiate your claim. You didn't.

 

[Bayside44]

Moving the goalposts again.

You claimed Boeheim talked about this $4,000 / month benefit all the time. I didn't ask you to do research for me. I asked you to substantiate your claim. You didn't.

Dude - I am -ing moving and quickly responded to a post while on my phone. The dollar figure from the article was different. Get over it, no one is moving goalposts. There have been plenty of posts here on various benefits kids get, etc, don't act like it fell out of the sky.

 

[All4SU]

Per article it states $1,400 per month and not clear whether its for 12 months a year. Not $4,000 / month for the full year

70% less is a big difference is it not?

And how can anyone have any issue with the $1,400 of out of pocket costs (possibly for only a portion of the year).. How else are they supposed to make money to cover any costs of entertainment? Otherwise we get into the world of petty illegal benefits. They have no ability to earn anything to cover such "pocket costs" because they have full time obligations to the basketball team plus maintaining their school grades and are restricted in their ability to take on certain jobs.

$1,400 per month when you are a full time college student is great, especially when you already get free residence, free meals, lots of free clothes. Hell, my kids would have killed for $1,400 per month while they were in school. And they weren’t getting any freebies either. Hell, with $1,400 per month you could lease a nice car, pay the monthly on a top cell phone, spend $200 bucks a week on Eats (if somehow you’re still hungry), and still have leftover money to take your girlfriend out once a week - if you have the energy.

 

[djcon57]

$1,400 per month when you are a full time college student is great, especially when you already get free residence, free meals, lots of free clothes. Hell, my kids would have killed for $1,400 per month while they were in school. And they weren’t getting any freebies either. Hell, with $1,400 per month you could lease a nice car, pay the monthly on a top cell phone, spend $200 bucks a week on Eats (if somehow you’re still hungry), and still have leftover money to take your girlfriend out once a week - if you have the energy.

did you kids have a skill that people would pay for to watch?

 

[All4SU]

did you kids have a skill that people would pay for to watch?

You mean beyond $1,400 per month and a $300,000 education. No.

 

[djcon57]

You mean beyond $1,400 per month and a $250,000 - $300,000 education. No.

oh, well. Then who cares what your kids would kill for.
they dont have the same talents these kids have.