Everybody still on board with the new transfer rule?

[Capt. Tuttle]

It’s not good. The NCAA as usual is asleep at the wheel and refuses to do what’s best for the sport. Paying players and NIL should be a priority. But the NCAA is so freakin desperate to hold on to their amateurism sham that they’re wiling to give up anything, including sensible rules that promote program stability and hold back chaos, prevent schools from wasting resources in recruiting and development, prevent mid majors from being raided by P5 schools, reign in kids from making bad decisions, and keep fans engaged with their teams. This is gonna hurt the fan experience and the game long term. The NBA doesn’t have unlimited free agency. The key thing to know with this rule change is that the NCAA is desperate to hold onto their sham amateurism model so they’re willing to cave and invite chaos in the transfer rules in order to prevent a larger player revolt and intervention from lawmakers. When the right and fair answer is to pass a sensible NIL rule and to give the players some cut from the billion dollar NCAA tourney revenue.

What business is it of anyone’s, other than the kid and his family, what decisions they make and whether they are good or bad. In your world, it seems that you would have the NCAA assign kids to schools, to keep them from making “bad decisions.”

 

[pokercuse08]

It ruins the fan experience in many ways, but it's fair to the kids to be allowed to transfer without penalty given that they aren't getting paid.

Easy solution:

1. Everyone can profit from their NIL.

2. Create some sort of a trust fund for all players to share in after they turn 25 or something. If the NCAA doesn't want to let schools straight up cut checks, or let Kentucky pay kids $500K or $1M when mid majors can't pay them over $50K, this threads that needle. You could let kids earn credits that correlate to their share for minutes played or various milestones, or you could make it flat.

3. Create a salary structure where everyone gets paid a reasonable stipend. It could escalate with seniority or playing time, or it could be flat. Ideally it would give kids incentive to stay another year over playing in the G League. So it's not "get rich" money, but combined with 1&2 it should be quite fair.

4. In exchange, the 1-year sit out period applies again, with automatic waivers if a coach leaves for any reason. I'd also be willing to let anyone who has gone two years without playing over X minutes transfer without sitting out, as that seems fair to the kids and reasonable for the sport.

 

[721Comstock]

No way it can EVER be a salary.

That nukes amateur athletics, period.

They’d become employees, which means their scholarships would be taxable benefits, and it’s a Pandora’s box that ends it all.

NIL doesn’t cost the schools a dime, legalizes the booster activity that’s already happening anyway, and the kids will then be taxed on that income now that it’s above board.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

No way it can EVER be a salary.

That nukes amateur athletics, period.

They’d become employees, which means their scholarships would be taxable benefits, and it’s a Pandora’s box that ends it all.

NIL doesn’t cost the schools a dime, legalizes the booster activity that’s already happening anyway, and the kids will then be taxed on that income now that it’s above board.

Yup.

This is the way.

 

[djcon57]

If it helps Syracuse, I like it
if it hurts Syracuse, I hate it

thats how this works, right?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

No way it can EVER be a salary.

That nukes amateur athletics, period.

They’d become employees, which means their scholarships would be taxable benefits, and it’s a Pandora’s box that ends it all.

NIL doesn’t cost the schools a dime, legalizes the booster activity that’s already happening anyway, and the kids will then be taxed on that income now that it’s above board.

Part of the scholarship (non-academic portion) is already taxable.

Are Scholarships Taxable?

Scholarships used to pay for tuition and textbooks are generally tax-free, while scholarship amounts used to pay for other college costs, such as housing, meal plans and transportation, are taxable. The student must also be a degree candidate for the scholarships to be excluded from income. The...

www.savingforcollege.com

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

It ruins the fan experience in many ways, but it's fair to the kids to be allowed to transfer without penalty given that they aren't getting paid.

Easy solution:

1. Everyone can profit from their NIL.

2. Create some sort of a trust fund for all players to share in after they turn 25 or something. If the NCAA doesn't want to let schools straight up cut checks, or let Kentucky pay kids $500K or $1M when mid majors can't pay them over $50K, this threads that needle. You could let kids earn credits that correlate to their share for minutes played or various milestones, or you could make it flat.

3. Create a salary structure where everyone gets paid a reasonable stipend. It could escalate with seniority or playing time, or it could be flat. Ideally it would give kids incentive to stay another year over playing in the G League. So it's not "get rich" money, but combined with 1&2 it should be quite fair.

4. In exchange, the 1-year sit out period applies again, with automatic waivers if a coach leaves for any reason. I'd also be willing to let anyone who has gone two years without playing over X minutes transfer without sitting out, as that seems fair to the kids and reasonable for the sport.

How do I profit from my NIL if the NCAA takes my money, puts it in a Trust, then gives it to others? The NCAA is corrupt, and now you want them in charge of the kids’ money. No thanks

 

[PhatOrange]

It’s fine with me because there are still only 13 spots per team.

many kiddos will end up transferring down as they seek more minutes and who can blame them. Wouldn’t you?

It’s not fair at all to penalize a kid who wants to play or maybe doesn’t like the coach or maybe doesn’t like the school.

Kids only get 1 free transfer waiver if I understand correctly.

 

[orangecuse]

If you have an issue with the benefits colleges athletes get right now and the benefits that they are in line to get in the near future then stop watching. They get those benefits because of the number of people who watch them play.

So if you really think it’s wrong then stop being part of the problem that you think exists.

And, as legal adults, they voluntarily signed the legally binding (LOI) 'as is' contract.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

How do I profit from my NIL if the NCAA takes my money, puts it in a Trust, then gives it to others? The NCAA is corrupt, and now you want them in charge of the kids’ money. No thanks

Yeah, I don't understand the proposals about money going into a trust at all.

It's weird and paternalistic.

 

[UpstateSM]

 

[UpstateSM]

And, as legal adults, they voluntarily sign the legally binding (LOI) 'as is' contract.

I don’t see the correlation between that and what I said haha their situation shouldn’t change because they signed an LOI?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

And, as legal adults, they voluntarily sign the legally binding (LOI) 'as is' contract.

I think if that transfer rule were challenged, it would be found to be illegal: like baseball’s old reserve clause

 

[pokercuse08]

How do I profit from my NIL if the NCAA takes my money, puts it in a Trust, then gives it to others? The NCAA is corrupt, and now you want them in charge of the kids’ money. No thanks

Those are two separate things. Everything a player makes themselves from their NIL is theirs immediately. But the NCAA should also take a cut of the overall revenue and put it in a trust. My idea is just one of several ways it could be used. It could be for guys who want to come back and get degrees later, guys who suffer career ending injuries, etc, etc... But even if the players can profit off their NIL it's still not fair that they aren't getting a cut of the revenue they are generating.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

GREAT FIND.

That's a must read, everyone should consider that perspective.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Those are two separate things. Everything a player makes themselves from their NIL is theirs immediately. But the NCAA should also take a cut of the overall revenue and put it in a trust. My idea is just one of several ways it could be used. It could be for guys who want to come back and get degrees later, guys who suffer career ending injuries, etc, etc... But even if the players can profit off their NIL it's still not fair that they aren't getting a cut of the revenue they are generating.

The NIL revenue?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

It ruins the fan experience in many ways, but it's fair to the kids to be allowed to transfer without penalty given that they aren't getting paid.

Easy solution:

1. Everyone can profit from their NIL.

2. Create some sort of a trust fund for all players to share in after they turn 25 or something. If the NCAA doesn't want to let schools straight up cut checks, or let Kentucky pay kids $500K or $1M when mid majors can't pay them over $50K, this threads that needle. You could let kids earn credits that correlate to their share for minutes played or various milestones, or you could make it flat.

3. Create a salary structure where everyone gets paid a reasonable stipend. It could escalate with seniority or playing time, or it could be flat. Ideally it would give kids incentive to stay another year over playing in the G League. So it's not "get rich" money, but combined with 1&2 it should be quite fair.

4. In exchange, the 1-year sit out period applies again, with automatic waivers if a coach leaves for any reason. I'd also be willing to let anyone who has gone two years without playing over X minutes transfer without sitting out, as that seems fair to the kids and reasonable for the sport.

You have to pay ALL players in ALL sports the same.

 

[orangecuse]

I think if that transfer rule were challenged, it would be found to be illegal: like baseball’s old reserve clause

Illegal on what grounds?

Was there not acceptance, consideration and full mental capacity when entering into the agreement? What statute or law does it violate? What would make the court determine that it's illegal, thus making it unenforceable and/or void? How does it violate public policy? It's highly probable that the reason it has never been challenged to date is due to the difficulty the plaintiff would have in proving its illegality.

The old baseball reserve clause is not quite on point since the college players are not technically compensated directly for their play as in the baseball scenario. Furthermore, none of these college players (at least the ones of pertinence, non walk-ons) are actually playing without a contract as was the apparent premise of the 1975 applicable arbitration ruling. Therefore, I don't think the anti-trust/interstate commerce threshold is met if that's the basis of your "if challenged" viewpoint?

​

 

[All4SU]

Because this is literally turning into open gym night at the local Elementary school.

It works against a program like SU which runs a specific defense that takes some time to learn. Constant shuffling of players is not good for our system.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Illegal on what grounds?

Was there not acceptance, consideration and full mental capacity when entering into the agreement? What statute or law does it violate? What would make the court determine that it's illegal, thus making it unenforceable and/or void? How does it violate public policy? It's highly probable that the reason it has never been challenged to date is due to the difficulty the plaintiff would have in proving its illegality.

The old baseball reserve clause is not quite on point since the college players are not technically compensated directly for their play as in the baseball scenario. Furthermore, none of these college players (at least the ones of pertinence, non walk-ons) are actually playing without a contract as was the apparent premise of the 1975 applicable arbitration ruling. Therefore, I don't think the anti-trust/interstate commerce threshold is met if that's the basis of your "if challenged" viewpoint?

​

It’s an adhesion contract. They cannot be bargained. They are take it or leave it. They area always construed against the drafter.
The scholarships are annual. Each year is renewed. (There have been some 4 year scholarships now).
How, when you fulfilled your scholarship for the year, can someone say you can’t play for a whole other year at another school?
It is clearly limiting the ability to play, which limits available options.
Anything that limits choice should be strictly construed and thrown out, where possible. That’s why covenants not to compete are so difficult to enforce.

 

[tbonezone]

the cost of tuition , board, equipment ,travel etc ain't free. don't tell me these kids don't receive compensation for playing.

 

[GardenOrange]

Nope. Ruining MY experience as a college basketball fan. Kids don’t deserve to change schools without punishment like normal students or non-revenue athletes.

And once they start getting paid for their NIL? I’m gone!!!!!

Ruining college basketball for real. Just the latest body blow for the sport to accommodate individual college kids entertaining their superstar fantasies.

 

[UpstateSM]

Ruining college basketball for real. Just the latest body blow for the sport to accommodate individual college kids entertaining their superstar fantasies.

Yupp I am DONE. I’m sick of these kids thinking the sport is about them.

 

[pokercuse08]

The NIL revenue?

No, revenue from TV/tix/concessions/merch.

You have to pay ALL players in ALL sports the same.

I would think you'd be able to play all players in all sports the same % cut of the revenue generated in their sport, so the non-revenue sports would get little/nothing.

 

[pokercuse08]

the cost of tuition , board, equipment ,travel etc ain't free. don't tell me these kids don't receive compensation for playing.

Oh, please. They're getting nowhere near their market value. That's like telling a travelling salesman he should work for room and board because the cost of the travel, office space, housing, meals, etc ain't free. Anybody in any field would laugh an offer like that out of the room, but these kids are more or less coerced

Yupp I am DONE. I’m sick of these kids thinking the sport is about them.

Then stop watching. I doubt anyone will care. Man, the privilege in this post.