Everyone who thinks or thought Jerami Grant should have stayed>>>>>

[timkay99]

This is an exact copy/paste from your original post:
"If you play well (like Grant) you get to your 2nd contract earlier (if he went in the 1st round, the contract structure would have been the same with years 3 and 4 as team options)."

Ummmmmm, most (if not all) 1st round NBA contracts are in that format...

McDaniel is an exception (but notice, Philly originally offered the 4 year deal). Ennis deal is 2 years guaranteed w/ 2 club options...

What exactly do you think I am wrong about?

 

[CusefanATL]

Ummmmmm, most (if not all) 1st round NBA contracts are in that format...

McDaniel is an exception (but notice, Philly originally offered the 4 year deal). Ennis deal is 2 years guaranteed w/ 2 club options...

What exactly do you think I am wrong about?

I edited it. It looked like you were saying Grant was going to get to his 2nd contract after year 2. My apologies for that.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/kyle-anderson/

That is the 30th pick in the draft. he will make $1.7 million more than Jerami over the 1st 4 years.

If Jerami stayed in school and played to how I think he could have, he could have been a top 10 pick this year and that is significant more money. Like I said from the beginning - having success in the NBA this year doesnt make it a good or a bad decision. I think Grant would have been better off coming back - I think Ennis took advantage of his ceiling stock. 1 is getting minutes, the other is not.

 

[Garbs]

Really? Because I don't feel a connection to certain former players? Do you follow every former SU basketball player? Tell me, what's Billy Celuck up to these days? It doesn't count if you have to go look it up after reading my post.

If your happiness is completely wrapped up in the status of former SU basketball players, I feel sorry for you.

swing and a miss

no it is because you care to talk so much about the difference between players you care about and don't care about

 

[moqui]

Yep, actually just the opposite.

Jerami's success proves that leaving so early was a poor financial decision. He would be a lottery pick this June.

He could have wiped with the chump change he's making during the course of this year by comparison.

you cannot make that assumption . . . as far as we know, his current success is the result of being able to treat basketball as his full time job, rather than the hobby that the NCAA mandates it to be with its time restrictions. He comes back and he gets to spend 20 hours a week working on zone defense and slow tempo offense, and he's a year older and stale when the draft comes along stuffed with fresh 19 year olds.

Age matters; he might have improved his draft position, but I highly doubt he would have gotten into the lottery. Hell, Rakeem Christmas is at best a late first rounder right now, and it is very unlikely that Jerami would have had a better season than Roc has had thus far.

 

[sufandu]

swing and a miss

no it is because you care to talk so much about the difference between players you care about and don't care about

Oh, my fault. My life is miserable then. I suppose the other posters that relate to mine must have miserable lives too. :crazy:

 

[CuseFaninVT]

you cannot make that assumption . . . as far as we know, his current success is the result of being able to treat basketball as his full time job, rather than the hobby that the NCAA mandates it to be with its time restrictions. He comes back and he gets to spend 20 hours a week working on zone defense and slow tempo offense, and he's a year older and stale when the draft comes along stuffed with fresh 19 year olds.

Age matters; he might have improved his draft position, but I highly doubt he would have gotten into the lottery. Hell, Rakeem Christmas is at best a late first rounder right now, and it is very unlikely that Jerami would have had a better season than Roc has had thus far.

In fact, Rak and Jerami might actually be taking away from each other in terms of play. Rak would likely be having a bit less spectacular season, and really, I'd rather see Rak with the ball. He's got actual low post moves and knows what to do once he gets the ball.

 

[Garbs]

Oh, my fault. My life is miserable then. I suppose the other posters that relate to mine must have miserable lives too. :crazy:

sounds exhausting

 

[timkay99]

I edited it. It looked like you were saying Grant was going to get to his 2nd contract after year 2. My apologies for that.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/kyle-anderson/

That is the 30th pick in the draft. he will make $1.7 million more than Jerami over the 1st 4 years.

If Jerami stayed in school and played to how I think he could have, he could have been a top 10 pick this year and that is significant more money. Like I said from the beginning - having success in the NBA this year doesnt make it a good or a bad decision. I think Grant would have been better off coming back - I think Ennis took advantage of his ceiling stock. 1 is getting minutes, the other is not.

It all comes down to risk. Sure, Grant could have made more money if he played like he is playing now if he came back. Collegiate game is also much more physical, so there is no guarantee Grant could have withstood the beating.

In this route, he got his guaranteed money though and is ensured he is a millionaire. The real money is in that 2nd contract (while that 1.7 million of present earnings sucks to lose), it doesn't factor in all that much if he gets a Parsons type deal. By declaring now, he gets to that contract a year younger vs. if he came back to Syracuse.

For me, it all comes down to money. If you leave early, you better guarantee you get money. If you don't guarantee you get money, most of the time you made a bad decision.

I personally don't think it can be a bad decision if you get guaranteed money.

 

[OttoMets]

Oh, my fault. My life is miserable then. I suppose the other posters that relate to mine must have miserable lives too. :crazy:

Worse lives than all those extraordinarily fortunate NBA players, too.

I know I wake up every morning depressed that I'm not Dion Waiters or DeMarcus Cousins.

 

[Garbs]

It all comes down to risk. Sure, Grant could have made more money if he played like he is playing now if he came back. Collegiate game is also much more physical, so there is no guarantee Grant could have withstood the beating.

In this route, he got his guaranteed money though and is ensured he is a millionaire. The real money is in that 2nd contract (while that 1.7 million of present earnings sucks to lose), it doesn't factor in all that much if he gets a Parsons type deal. By declaring now, he gets to that contract a year younger vs. if he came back to Syracuse.

For me, it all comes down to money. If you leave early, you better guarantee you get money. If you don't guarantee you get money, most of the time you made a bad decision.

I personally don't think it can be a bad decision if you get guaranteed money.

It isn't all about the money all the time, well most of the time, but for Grant I think more so than your average kid, it was more about being in the "the League" and realizing his dream.

 

[sufandu]

sounds exhausting

What?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Worse lives than all those extraordinarily fortunate NBA players, too.

I know I wake up every morning depressed that I'm not Dion Waiters or DeMarcus Cousins.

These posts make me think about the fact that the majority of NBA players (60%) are broke not long after their careers come to a close. I wonder if they would ever break down those numbers more - where they were selected in the draft, number of college years, etc. Would be interesting to see.

 

[TBCuse11]

Grant will be lucky to be on a roster in two years (unless Philly keeps him cheap, almost free, as a bench filler). As the Sixers get out of tank mode, a guy like Grant will be at best a 10th guy on a roster.

Lets not get carried away because he is doing ok on a team who has ZERO interest in winning or competing.

(and the Sixers are my fave team sadly, so i watch a TON of their games)

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't know these kids, their personal or financial situations. So I'm loathe to criticize a kid for following his dream because he's not around to entertain me for free.

And maybe in crazy, but I think college basketball fans overrate the "college experience." I bet Jerami Grant doesn't give a sh/t about his highlights being on ESPN, starting for a top ten team,or playing to a packed Dome.

 

[RF2044]

Grant will be lucky to be on a roster in two years (unless Philly keeps him cheap, almost free, as a bench filler). As the Sixers get out of tank mode, a guy like Grant will be at best a 10th guy on a roster.

Lets not get carried away because he is doing ok on a team who has ZERO interest in winning or competing.

(and the Sixers are my fave team sadly, so i watch a TON of their games)

I think there's a lot of validity to that. Now, I qualify this up front by acknowledging that I hope Grant has a lengthy NBA career and makes a ton of bank. I'll root for him his entire career, even if he ends up being a journeyman [nothing wrong with that, BTW].

But in the main, I think [1] that he was incredibly fortunate to land on a team like Philly, which stinks and was looking to fill out their lous roster with cheap, young talent while they're in tank mode, [2] that had he been a second round pick--even drafted around the same slot--but landed on another team, he would have been realistically facing an uphill battle to even make a roster, let alone earn steady PT; and [3] in all likelihood would NOT have garnered a guaranteed contract [especially a two year contract] as a second round pick landing on just about any other team than Philly.

The confluence of all these circumstances helped what could have been a disastrous outcome work out in Grant's favor, which is awesome for Grant [and for SU, having another player in the league from an exposure standpoint]. But lucking into an outcome is a far different thing that pointing to the fortuitous outcome as validating the decision.

 

[sufandu]

I don't know these kids, their personal or financial situations. So I'm loathe to criticize a kid for following his dream because he's not around to entertain me for free.

And maybe in crazy, but I think college basketball fans overrate the "college experience." I bet Jerami Grant doesn't give a sh/t about his highlights being on ESPN, starting for a top ten team,or playing to a packed Dome.

I would guess that varies from guy to guy. Melo (the good one) cried because he didn't want to leave but knew it was the move he had to make.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think there's a lot of validity to that. Now, I qualify this up front by acknowledging that I hope Grant has a lengthy NBA career and makes a ton of bank. I'll root for him his entire career, even if he ends up being a journeyman [nothing wrong with that, BTW].

But in the main, I think [1] that he was incredibly fortunate to land on a team like Philly, which stinks and was looking to fill out their lous roster with cheap, young talent while they're in tank mode, [2] that had he been a second round pick--even drafted around the same slot--but landed on another team, he would have been realistically facing an uphill battle to even make a roster, let alone earn steady PT; and [3] in all likelihood would NOT have garnered a guaranteed contract [especially a two year contract] as a second round pick landing on just about any other team than Philly.

The confluence of all these circumstances helped what could have been a disastrous outcome work out in Grant's favor, which is awesome for Grant [and for SU, having another player in the league from an exposure standpoint]. But lucking into an outcome is a far different thing that pointing to the fortuitous outcome as validating the decision.

It's results-based thinking...which I'm not a fan of.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I would guess that varies from guy to guy. Melo (the good one) cried because he didn't want to leave but knew it was the move he had to make.

Yeah...I shouldn't paint with to broad a brush. Carmelo was different.

 

[MikeSU02]

you cannot make that assumption . . . as far as we know, his current success is the result of being able to treat basketball as his full time job, rather than the hobby that the NCAA mandates it to be with its time restrictions. He comes back and he gets to spend 20 hours a week working on zone defense and slow tempo offense, and he's a year older and stale when the draft comes along stuffed with fresh 19 year olds.

Age matters; he might have improved his draft position, but I highly doubt he would have gotten into the lottery. Hell, Rakeem Christmas is at best a late first rounder right now, and it is very unlikely that Jerami would have had a better season than Roc has had thus far.

I can't like this post enough.

I really don't think people pay enough attention to the NBA and the way players develop.

You don't turn into top ten draft picks just by getting a year older and playing another year of zone.

 

[obliterata]

Every time a player has an opportunity to turn pro early and make some good money they've got to go, there are just too many unknowns to make returning the best strategy. If you could 100% guarantee a player would improve his game and his draft position I'm sure a few would return to college but, you can't.

Using Jerami Grant as an example: he hurt his back last season and he hurt his ankle this, both injuries made him miss quite a few games. What if they happened this season while he was at SU? Or a worse injury? Or what if Coach Boeheim decided to play Christmas, McCullough, and Grant together for 30+ minutes a game and Jerami doesn't put up better numbers than last year? Both of these scenarios are possible and could negatively impact his "draftability".

There's also the time factor, a player's career only lasts so long. Every year in college is one less in the pros, one less year to earn good money.

Considering the importance of money, I don't condemn any player for making a decision that potentially could impact their life in a positive way.

 

[RF2044]

It's results-based thinking...which I'm not a fan of.

Versus what--impulse-based thinking?

Actually, I'm not using "results" to make any statement about whether Grant made a "good" or "bad" decision--just noting / observing that it worked out favorably. Which isn't something that can be said about many [most?] second round picks.

Risk definitely can yield opportunity, but there are also consequences associated with risk. Even though people can't predict the future, it is best to make an informed choice factoring in both sides of that coin. Ifyou call that results-based thinking, than so be it.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Versus what--impulse-based thinking?

Actually, I'm not using "results" to make any statement about whether Grant made a "good" or "bad" decision--just noting / observing that it worked out favorably. Which isn't something that can be said about many [most?] second round picks.

Risk definitely can yield opportunity, but there are also consequences associated with risk. Even though people can't predict the future, it is best to make an informed choice factoring in both sides of that coin. Ifyou call that results-based thinking, than so be it.

Using results of a decision to justify wether said decision was the right one. Grant still could have made a poor decision, it just worked out well.

Long story short, I agree with you.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don't know these kids, their personal or financial situations. So I'm loathe to criticize a kid for following his dream because he's not around to entertain me for free.

And maybe in crazy, but I think college basketball fans overrate the "college experience." I bet Jerami Grant doesn't give a sh/t about his highlights being on ESPN, starting for a top ten team,or playing to a packed Dome.

Or maybe going to class

 

[orangenirvana]

you cannot make that assumption . . . as far as we know, his current success is the result of being able to treat basketball as his full time job, rather than the hobby that the NCAA mandates it to be with its time restrictions. He comes back and he gets to spend 20 hours a week working on zone defense and slow tempo offense, and he's a year older and stale when the draft comes along stuffed with fresh 19 year olds.

Age matters; he might have improved his draft position, but I highly doubt he would have gotten into the lottery. Hell, Rakeem Christmas is at best a late first rounder right now, and it is very unlikely that Jerami would have had a better season than Roc has had thus far.

By that logic every player should leave after his freshman year no matter what.

I love Christmas but Grant is much more talented than he is.

 

[djcon57]

Each of these guys would have had front page pub had they come back to Syracuse. Now no one hears anything about them unless they read this board. Both should have come back.

Yeah...All the PUB CJ Fair got in that game vs Duke last year. Top story on ESPN.

He's playing where now?