Class of 2021 - F John Camden (PA / Brewster) | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2021 F John Camden (PA / Brewster)

Taylor can contribute and play a role. Just not score…
Which is why I see him as a key sub, not a starter, as a freshman. Him and Bunch need seasoning. We need an experienced, instant impact guy at forward. A guy who can score and rebound and with ACC level athleticism.
 
I think everything is building towards 2024. That's when this incoming class should really be able to contribute. As a result I'd rather take a kid like Camden who can be here for that and grow within the program over a guy like golden or the like. A pure shooter who will be here for multiple years is a rare commodity. And if his release point is too low and he can't score at this level we find someone else. With the portal it's about bringing in numbers because inevitably guys will leave.
 
Which is why I see him as a key sub, not a starter, as a freshman. Him and Bunch need seasoning. We need an experienced, instant impact guy at forward. A guy who can score and rebound and with ACC level athleticism.
With you
 
His shooting stance and release looks like Swider.
he also has the same plodding gait. struggled to dunk it in that practice video, he is a CC of Cole in many respects to me too.
 
I said the same thing yesterday. I greatly prefer a 1 year guy to replace Cole. A grad transfer or whatever. We have 6 recruits. 5 of them have been committed for awhile. While none were probably made any promises, they were sold on what their opportunities would be, what the coaches saw as their roles near term and far, how they fit in the plans and scheme, etc. I’m sure that all played into their decisions. It’s a touchy situation if you bring in another guy basically in the same class. It’s easy to say may the best man win the job, but that’s not what was sold I’m sure. It’s not going to be an easy decision for the staff how to play this. I also wonder too if it could impact future recruiting if we’re pushing kids aside before they even get a chance. Kids talk.

It does set up a perfect scenario for a handful of posters (not you obviously). If we don’t bring in anything more than a back up center, some posters will go off on JB. If we do and then young players leave next year, posters will go off on JB for again “losing” players.

Not an easy call IMO.
No it isn't. The thing is, I would rank these guys in this order
1 Camden 2. Taylor 3 Bunch 4. Brown And yet, I wouldn't do it.
 
A couple of schools of thought. First, we have three frosh forwards coming in already. Do we really bring in a 4th? What does that say to those guys? On the other hand, the best guys play. I like his game a lot but I would rather get a guy that is in his last year. More mature and easier for the frosh to sit behind. We really don't want to set ourselves up for another mass transit, do we?
I have a slightly different take than Bees on this. I see his point, but even with a GT I don't see us really going anywhere next year (so what's the point ... might as well grab Camden). The math isn't favorable: Almost 47 points (and sixty percent) of our offense just walked out the door. And it seems unlikely we can get back to last year's numbers (77.3 ppg in a losing season) with no established scorers coming in at either forward spot (if things remain as they are).

Experience matters. Last year we struggled even though we had three established guys returning (JG3, Buddy and Jesse). The two new forwards (Jimmy and Swagger) played well. But we didn't really gel as a team until it was too late - 3.5 months in. This year, we have two (established) scorers: JGIII and Jesse. If Benny starts, and I love the kid, his offense is a WIP. That means we will be starving for points at the forward spot whether we bring in Camden or a GT.

On the positive side, with JGIII moving to SG and Mintz coming in, we might make up some of the 20 ppg we're losing with Buddy. JGIII is going to draw a lot of pressure, but Mintz can mitigate that and hopefully score himself (8-10 ppp would be good). Also, if we get a -ready-out-of-the-box forward (Camden or a GT-shooter) .. that will help.

Defensively, we'll be better with Benny and Jesse on the front line. And up top Mintz will be an improvement over joe. We'll also have a lot of talent on the bench ... and maybe some of that will flash.

Fun to see what will happen but I'm guarded about our chances to reach .500 in the ACC no matter what we do with the other forward spot. Too much offense lost and too many new guys.
 
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I have a slightly different take than Bees on this. I see his point, but even with a GT I don't see us really going anywhere next year (so what's the point ... might as well grab Camden). The math isn't favorable: Almost 47 points (and sixty percent) of our offense just walked out the door. And it seems unlikely we can get back to last year's numbers (77.3 ppg in a losing season) with no established scorers coming in at either forward spot.

Experience matters. Last year we struggled even though we had three established guys returning (JG3, Buddy and Jesse). The two new forwards (Jimmy and Swagger) played well. But we didn't really gel as a team until it was too late - 3.5 months in. This year, we have two (established) scorers: JGIII and Jesse. If Benny starts, and I love the kid, his offense is a WIP. That means we will be starving for points at the forward spot whether we bring in Camden or not.

On the positive side, with JGIII moving to SG and Mintz coming in, we might make up some of the 20 ppg we're losing with Buddy. JGIII is going to draw a lot of pressure, but Mintz can mitigate that and hopefully score himself (8-10 ppp would be good). Also, if we get Camden or a GT-shooter .. that will help.

Defensively, we'll be better with Benny and Jesse on the front line. The other forward is a question mark. And up top Mintz will be an improvement over joe. We'll also have a lot of talent on the bench ... and maybe some of that will flash.

Fun to see what will happen but I'm guarded about our chances to reach .500 in the ACC no matter what we do with the other forward spot. Too much offense lost and too many new guyI
think it is too early to be that pessimistic. We have guys that could get to a different level. That is why I think Cole hurts so much. We knew what we could get from him. Mintz will really help. Jesse could be really good. Joe could be pretty good. Benny is a wild card. No idea what to expect. A solid to really good 4 could make us a surprise team next year. I don't think we can do it with a frosh but I have been wrong before. But a quality portal guy and I think we will be fun to watch.
 
I have a slightly different take than Bees on this. I see his point, but even with a GT I don't see us really going anywhere next year (so what's the point ... might as well grab Camden). The math isn't favorable: Almost 47 points (and sixty percent) of our offense just walked out the door. And it seems unlikely we can get back to last year's numbers (77.3 ppg in a losing season) with no established scorers coming in at either forward spot.

Experience matters. Last year we struggled even though we had three established guys returning (JG3, Buddy and Jesse). The two new forwards (Jimmy and Swagger) played well. But we didn't really gel as a team until it was too late - 3.5 months in. This year, we have two (established) scorers: JGIII and Jesse. If Benny starts, and I love the kid, his offense is a WIP. That means we will be starving for points at the forward spot whether we bring in Camden or not.

On the positive side, with JGIII moving to SG and Mintz coming in, we might make up some of the 20 ppg we're losing with Buddy. JGIII is going to draw a lot of pressure, but Mintz can mitigate that and hopefully score himself (8-10 ppp would be good). Also, if we get Camden or a GT-shooter .. that will help.

Defensively, we'll be better with Benny and Jesse on the front line. The other forward is a question mark. And up top Mintz will be an improvement over joe. We'll also have a lot of talent on the bench ... and maybe some of that will flash.

Fun to see what will happen but I'm guarded about our chances to reach .500 in the ACC no matter what we do with the other forward spot. Too much offense lost and too many new guys.
I think Mintz is going to be more in the 14-15 ppg range.
 
Hope you're right. But even so, we're unlikely to make up the lion's share of the deficit is at forward .. with 2 frosh and a guy that scored 2 ppg. I'm not trying to doomsday the thread .. just being realistic.
That is why we have to get a real quality portal forward. Use this to get a guy that is a even better fit that Cole. i would be very happy with Mintz, Joe, Jesse, quality portal forward and Benny. Only one question mark at that. Benny. I thought all year that our problem this year was the lack of a mix of talent. We had 4 guys that did the same things and couldn't do the same things. This portal forward can do a few things for us. If he is a shoote? Great? if he is more of a defender and boards guy, that is great as well. But we can't go with Taylor, Brown and Bunch.
 
JFK said during the missile crisis that the greatest risk would be to do nothing. Well, he was right then and he would be right if he said it about our situation this year. We need to work our @ss off to get a quality forward. We have seen the names out here. I hope to hear we are involved with them this week. If we aren't...
 
Say we land Camden and Ballard. I feel like I am in the minority, but I don’t see how we aren’t better than this year…
 
Say we land Camden and Ballard. I feel like I am in the minority, but I don’t see how we aren’t better than this year…
I think we can be better because we will have players with different skills. But I don't think that those two players make us better. I would rather have Frank than Quincy. I would rather have Cole than Camden.
 
Let’s assume our team is what it is. We know what we have and our perceived holes. How can we use our players to fill in The holes? For example, rebounding, maybe Maliq Brown and Benny Williams would be our best rebounding forwards. Benny, Maliq and Chris Bunch may be our best athletic forwards. Justin Taylor and Benny may be our more prolific scorer. Peter Carey and Jon Bol may be our best backup centers (there is a definite need here) because Jesse Edwards may be foul prone. Joe Girard is our best scoring guard with Taylor and Mintz substituting in when Joe comes out. Mintz, Sy and Quadir are the best ball handlers, play makers and probably our best defenders at the guard position. We need Benny, Jesse and Joe plus at least one other player to step up as consistent scorers. Need a scoring presence off the bench (hopefully Chris Bunch).

That said: our guards and starting center look like our strength. Forward position will be an evolving one until two of stand out beyond the others. With what seems to be better playmakers, there may be easier opportunities for the forwards to score inside.
 
I think we can be better because we will have players with different skills. But I don't think that those two players make us better. I would rather have Frank than Quincy. I would rather have Cole than Camden.
I agree totally. And, I think we can do better in the portal. We have a starting spot to offer. I think we should use that spot to solidify a 4/5. Because, sure I would love a dynamic small forward that can score. But, we have one shot to land a backup center. And the way to get the best guy for that is to try to get a guy that can start at the 4 and slide over to the 5 to backup Jesse. Then, I think we try to get the best scoring forward possible, maybe someone like Camden is the guy.
 
I think we can be better because we will have players with different skills. But I don't think that those two players make us better. I would rather have Frank than Quincy. I would rather have Cole than Camden.
As would I. But I’d rather have symir or mintz at pg over Joe. And defensively we would be better. I’ve always been at the front of the line for Benny over Jimmy. Sure, Cole and Buddy are huge losses offensively, but with something close to an actual PG, I’ll roll with the team with Camden and Ballard.
 
I think we can be better because we will have players with different skills. But I don't think that those two players make us better. I would rather have Frank than Quincy. I would rather have Cole than Camden.
Stop making so much sense on here lately Dash!
 
As would I. But I’d rather have symir or mintz at pg over Joe. And defensively we would be better. I’ve always been at the front of the line for Benny over Jimmy. Sure, Cole and Buddy are huge losses offensively, but with something close to an actual PG, I’ll roll with the team with Camden and Ballard.
I understand but we haven't seen Camden play at the college level. He hasn't actually played basketball in quite some time. I would rather have a guy that has been playing hoop at that level for the last 3 years.
 
I understand but we haven't seen Camden play at the college level. He hasn't actually played basketball in quite some time. I would rather have a guy that has been playing hoop at that level for the last 3 years.
Yeah I guess. But won’t be mad at all if Camden comes in. And yes, camden over golden…
 
Yeah I guess. But won’t be mad at all if Camden comes in. And yes, camden over golden…
I agree there. Don't get me wrong, I like Camden. I wrote earlier that I think he would be the best forward for us next year over the three guys we already have. But I wouldn't take him because we recruited those guys already and I don't want to recruit over them before they even get to campus. We just did that with Mintz but we had to do that. That is one of the reasons that I hope the portal forward (if there is one) will be a older guy.
 
Here’s the thing with Camden.

Supposedly we are going hard after Reid Ducharme next year.

If we sign Camden I would think that ends Reid’s recruitment.
That would not be the reason for me not to recruit a guy. We can have this good player for sure but it will hurt us recruiting a guy we may not get anyway. Bird in the hand. Having said that, I am concerned about recruiting over guys we worked hard to get before they even get here.
 
That would not be the reason for me not to recruit a guy. We can have this good player for sure but it will hurt us recruiting a guy we may not get anyway. Bird in the hand. Having said that, I am concerned about recruiting over guys we worked hard to get before they even get here.
And it may just be the fans doing that. There’s info out there outside of your insights that claims JB may want to go after a 4/5 hybrid, but that would be it.
 
And it may just be the fans doing that. There’s info out there outside of your insights that claims JB may want to go after a 4/5 hybrid, but that would be it.
That may very well be true. I have heard that Jb is content to go with what he has. The ass'ts feel differently. And more importantly, dasher feels differently. At least more important to me. I want a 5 and a quality forward. I hope this idea wins out. If not, I think we can predict pain.
 

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