Facilities | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Facilities

here is a ranking done before our recent renovations. if we were 6th in the Big East ahead of just Cincinatti and Temple, then we were one of the worst in the nation. this is where my comment came from.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/tag/_/name/2012-facilities-rank

Not getting into the SU facilities "good"/"bad" debate but...

Two of the six BE schools ranked ahead of SU by Andrea Adelson have professional facilities to call upon (Pitt and USF, both with "state of the art" facilities, but still ranked tied for fourth ahead of SU) while the other three were all relatively newly built or recently expanded (Louisville, UConn, and Rutgers) plus were on-campus, that got them ranked ahead of "state of the art" professional facilities.

Were Big East facilities really "bad" per se in your mind? Or since the league itself was bad, the facilities had to be as well?

Cheers,
Neil
 
Constantly striving to be average in the "Facility Arms Race" will never get this program where we would like it to be.

Nobody shows up and supports or cheers for mediocrity. Just a fact.
 
If you aren't upgrading every year or close to it you are falling behind. SU is building an IPF, they should be figuring out what else they need to upgrade and planning for it. Hopefully we have a 3, 5, and 10 year plan for facilities. Be proactive and not reactive. The melo center was proactive, the IPF is reactive, thus we are falling behind already.


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Field turf and a new S & C facility were band-aids? And video boards are a band-aid but new and bigger ones are not?

Actually I don't even know if I am in disagreement with you.

My whole premise was that their were 2 major roadblocks (per Marrone) to recruiting better players - facilities and fans. So my contextual argument had more to do with facilities and it's affect on recruiting.

To add a third roadblock - what Marrone might not have realized when he first came here was that the state of the BE conference had fallen so low with regards to football that being in the BE conference was also a roadblock used against him for the very best players going all the way back to D Easley - SEC >>>>> BE.

Now moving forward 2 of those 3 roadblocks - facilities & ACC - are minimized - as CuseOnly points out we are now on more on a "level" playing field. Fan support will come back with a better product being put out on the field (Shaffer words, not mine) and that comes down to recruiting better players (and better coaching).
 
Yes, Facilities matter. Thats why every college has a rock-climbing wall. I gather this thread gets to why we should be a more successful football program. The landscape is so dramatically different than it was even ten years ago. Generally speaking, it will always be difficult to attract elite level recruits here no matter what we have, for many reasons. Specifically speaking, I am looking forward to watching the recruitment of Tyrone Wheatley, who apparently is now a 6'6", 240 lb DE. Offers from everywhere, but has ties here growing up here and to some of the staff. Will he even official here.
 
Long story short:

Jake became complacent
He thought the status quo would keep us where we were

The 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality'

Unfortunately he miscalculated

We are still trying to catch up as a program in general

Kids care less about tradition and more about the perks

You really hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. I completed get what SWC is arguing, however, kids today generally are all about me, me, me and most are incredibly spoiled. Kids today feel they're entitled to everything and what these universities have to offer and throw at them are well deserved, as if they've long earned the right at the ripe 'ol age of 17/18. A complete societal breakdown imo. Modern day parenting and its relative psycho babble approach, philosophy & stroking techniques has spawned & contributed to today's creations. Oh, that reminds me, I need to go get that latest 'my kid is the greatest' whatever bumper sticker and placed it on my car. ;) :crazy:
 
Field turf and a new S & C facility were band-aids? And video boards are a band-aid but new and bigger ones are not?

SU got field turf installed about 2 years after the local High Schools (Liverpool, CNS) got it installed. So to answer your question, yes it was a band-aid. With regard to video boards and a ribbon...people have been saying we needed them 10 years ago. This goes back to my assertion that we are already behind.

If you want to beat someone ahead of you climbing a ladder, you don't do just enough to get even with them and rest so they can pull ahead again, you push to get ahead and let them catch up.

Combined with the fact that SU has some inherent disadvantages already, weather and location. We should have facilities that are in the upper echelon of the ACC to overcome those 2 things. It is mind boggling that nobody there has any type of forward thinking.

It seems they are always trying to build an airplane in mid flight.
 
SU got field turf installed about 2 years after the local High Schools (Liverpool, CNS) got it installed. So to answer your question, yes it was a band-aid.

That's silly. No matter when we got it, it is far from a band aid. We have some top of the line turf.


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a mess in comparison to what everyone else had at the time. sure the rankings are subjective, but if we were 6th in the old Big East, which severely lagged behind everyone else, wouldn't that make them some of the worst in the bcs?
SWC did a good job writing this up ... the thread creates an interesting factual baseline. His opinion about our place in the facilities race over the past couple of decades may differ from yours, but the write up tells you what's been done. The rest is fodder for discussion.

One observation I would make is that some of institutions we've been competing against are either public universities or have support from professional sports franchises, or both. Yukon, for one example, put 90M into its program -- paid for by the good citizens of Ct. Pitt (quasi-public) and USF (public) also have pro sports teams providing capital. A private school, even with some public support, isn't going to be able to compete on this level.

There are many other examples, but SWC makes a very good argument that in the future, we have to be reasonable about the schools we can compete against. We are a private, northeastern U with a strong academic tradition. Our first priority is not to field a top 20 FB team, but to provide a great faculty and rich academic resources, including top-notch student support services and financial aid.

Those priorities make it impossible to compete with perennially-ranked (mostly SEC) southern schools -- including their paper mache' classes (for players), 3-4M coaching salaries, over-the-top facilities and even whores and cash for recruits! Clearly, that's not territory we want to move into.

The ACC seems to have a pretty responsible balance between academics and sports. Given our move to this new conference, all due respect to the thread, it really doesn't matter any more what we did in the 80's or 90's. It's a new ballgame, and we have almost 4 times the revenue to work with than we did during the BE era. We'll need it because we clearly have some catching up to do.
 
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Not getting into the SU facilities "good"/"bad" debate but...

Two of the six BE schools ranked ahead of SU by Andrea Adelson have professional facilities to call upon (Pitt and USF, both with "state of the art" facilities, but still ranked tied for fourth ahead of SU) while the other three were all relatively newly built or recently expanded (Louisville, UConn, and Rutgers) plus were on-campus, that got them ranked ahead of "state of the art" professional facilities.

Were Big East facilities really "bad" per se in your mind? Or since the league itself was bad, the facilities had to be as well?

Cheers,
Neil

This wasn't something I made up on my own. The SEC/B12 have long been known to be the leaders in the arms race. The B10 then caught on if you can see by the introduction paragraphs before the rankings. And as I said before there was a thread here with a comparison of all the ACC facilities and who has what...we definitely didn't have everything most of those programs did.
 
here is a ranking done before our recent renovations. if we were 6th in the Big East ahead of just Cincinatti and Temple, then we were one of the worst in the nation. this is where my comment came from.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/tag/_/name/2012-facilities-rank
Was surprised to see Cincinnatti so low. If I recall their on field results certainly didn't seem to be effected. Maybe facilities are just one of many factors that translate to success on the field?
 
Was surprised to see Cincinnatti so low. If I recall their on field results certainly didn't seem to be effected. Maybe facilities are just one of many factors that translate to success on the field?

having a string of high profile, elite recruiting coaches will do that for you. plus being in talent rich Ohio helps. obviously it's not the only factor in being successful, but if you are already fighting uphill battles like Syracuse, poor facilities just made things worse.
 
There has to be a balance. So far, I think the current administration (including DG) has done a good job striking it. In our new conference, however, the BEast is a distant memory. As nice as the thread is ... it really doesn't matter any more what we did in the 80's or 90's. We're in a new conference. And what bothers me is that we've been loosing big to some pretty good academic schools. Northwestern, not in the ACC, beat us soundly. That's a good school. Same with G-Tech, which is in the ACC.

So I can rationalize a beating from -State or P-State. But when we start loosing by 40 to schools with quality academics ... maybe we should start re-thinking how we spend that 24M that's going to start coming in every year.

This is the mistake I think many posters make on this board. The extra $$$ we get from the ACC will help with minor upgrades and improvements, but will have little to no impact on the major facilities upgrades, whatever the sport.

So let's say we still didn't have the seed money for the IPF, that extra $$$ might help get us the loan for the rest of the money should future further donations not entirely complete the funding, but the IPF wouldn't be built solely on the basis of that money. A certain amount of the seed money would still have to come from some sort of donation drive.

The extra $$$ we get from the ACC would more likely go to paying the remainder of a contract for a terminated coach, to raise assistant coach salaries (if they were deemed incompatible with others in the ACC or if a singular assistant coach was deemed worthy), and minor facilities upgrades.

Cheers,
Neil
 
This is the mistake I think many posters make on this board. The extra $$$ we get from the ACC will help with minor upgrades and improvements, but will have little to no impact on the major facilities upgrades, whatever the sport.

So let's say we still didn't have the seed money for the IPF, that extra $$$ might help get us the loan for the rest of the money should future further donations not entirely complete the funding, but the IPF wouldn't be built solely on the basis of that money. A certain amount of the seed money would still have to come from some sort of donation drive.

The extra $$$ we get from the ACC would more likely go to paying the remainder of a contract for a terminated coach, to raise assistant coach salaries (if they were deemed incompatible with others in the ACC or if a singular assistant coach was deemed worthy), and minor facilities upgrades.

Cheers,
Neil
I agree with this. Yes our revenue is going up, but so are the costs of sending all our teams (including the Title IX sports) on 4 thousand mile round trips to ACC venues. We'll still need alumni donations and support for big capital projects.
 
I agree with this. Yes our revenue is going up, but so are the costs of sending all our teams (including the Title IX sports) on 4 thousand mile round trips to ACC venues. We'll still need alumni donations and support for big capital projects.

I am hoping some of the money gets thrown into the asst coach/support staff pool. I can never figure out why we have some of the highest paid Olympic Sport coaches, but have some of the lowest paid football coaches, when the football program is supposed to be the primary bread winner?
 
You have never truly understood the facility issue.

Two years ago Marrone confirmed that our facilities were essentially last in the BE

He basically begged for funds and insisted that if he could get to the middle of the conference he would win.

We have been way behind for over 20 years and we are still way behind.
 
That's silly. No matter when we got it, it is far from a band aid. We have some top of the line turf.

Yes, NOW we have some top of the line turf. Let's just wait and see if they actually replace it when it reaches it's lifespan instead of going 10-15 years too long like the last turf in the Dome.
 
Yes, NOW we have some top of the line turf. Let's just wait and see if they actually replace it when it reaches it's lifespan instead of going 10-15 years too long like the last turf in the Dome.
My view on turf... It's way behind natural grass, it's not even close to being top line. It's good for an artificial surface.


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My view on turf... It's way behind natural grass, it's not even close to being top line. It's good for an artificial surface.


-

I couldn't agree more but until SU gets some Hydroponic lighting in the Dome to grow grass or we get a retractable roof it's kinda not relevant.
 
Yes, NOW we have some top of the line turf. Let's just wait and see if they actually replace it when it reaches it's lifespan instead of going 10-15 years too long like the last turf in the Dome.

Original astroturf was installed in 1980.

Replacement astroturf was installed during the Summer of 1993.

Field turf was installed during the Summer of 2005.
 
Original astroturf was installed in 1980.

Replacement astroturf was installed during the Summer of 1993.

Field turf was installed during the Summer of 2005.

I already know this. Ask some of the players that played on the Astroturf in 1992 how it should have been replaced before that. Same with players in 2004. It was left down too long in both instances.
 
I'm a big college football fan, have been for many years. I think the arms race and the spending on football and other athletic facilities is stupid. Sure if you're in an arms race you should try to keep up, but the whole college spending on athletics has gotten ridiculously out of hand.

I question how much actual revenue is being generated at some of these colleges as opposed to the actual costs of some of these facilities. If a cost benefit analysis has ever been done I suspect that football may be a bigger money drain than most believe.

The whole thing has gotten goofy.
 
I already know this. Ask some of the players that played on the Astroturf in 1992 how it should have been replaced before that. Same with players in 2004. It was left down too long in both instances.

You seriously think that SU should spring for new turf every 5-7 years?

NFL indoor stadiums don't even replace their turf that often.
 
You seriously think that SU should spring for new turf every 5-7 years?

NFL indoor stadiums don't even replace their turf that often.
Couldn't you argue that the Carrier Dome field gets more use than an average NFL stadium.

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