Facilities

[SWC75]

that is an opinion...your opinion. and you are in a very small minority on this one. let's not make it like it's a fact

Not sure how to measure this but I decided to count the "likes" we have gotten in this thread. I have made 25 posts prior to this one and gotten 34 likes and you have made 28 posts and gotten 11 likes. Just sayin'. :noidea:

 

[SWC75]

Whoever said that or that it was a reasonable standard? Talk about a strawman.

The issue isn't "Wow factor" it's "Suck factor". The problem when Marrone took over wasn't lack of Wow it was that the facilities actually drove recruits away. That's the problem you and SWC don't seem to understand. That's where it has impacted the roster.

From what I have been told there have been multiple instances during Marrone's time where but for the facilities they would have had some more highly regarded recruits.

That has been mitigated to extent in the last two years. That's a good thing. But more needs to be done to get on a more equal footing.

Could someone name the recruits who were 'driven away' by our facilities?

 

[SWC75]

Just stop, those are statements from press releases, what's he going to say. And didn't I say in the post you are responding to that it mitigated the problems. Doesn't mean they didn't exist and the AD had been slow in addressing them. They did what absolutely needed to be done, but there's an awful lot of room between what has been done and Oregon.

And if everything is now so rosy, what the push for an IPF?

From the paper about the IPF.

Shafer said. "It's been a necessity for a long time. I think there's a misconception we have the Dome, why would we need an indoor? Well, once our basketball team gets out there we really only have 50 or 60 yards of space, and you can't get work done there."

Said senior Jay Bromley: "All the other (teams) in the country have different indoor facilities that help them compete at a national level as far as recruits and everything like that, so it's big for Syracuse University to help keep pace with those programs and try to out-do them to make sure we stay on a level playing field."

When you buy a new car, is it because your old car is 'a mess', or because you want a new car before your old car becomes 'a mess'? People assume that an upgrade is done because what we had had been bad for years. It could be that we just don't want to continue relying on it when it becomes bad.

 

[wfschrec]

When you buy a new car, is it because your old car is 'a mess', or because you want a new car before your old car becomes 'a mess'? People assume that an upgrade is done because what we had had been bad for years. It could be that we just don't want to continue relying on it when it becomes bad.

Well that depends ... if you don't have the cash on hand some people won't buy the car until their current one becomes a mess and they are forced to ... others just buy cars just to buy cars ... depends on the purpose.

 

[wfschrec]

I think the Melo center has had a bigger impact on the DEVELOPMENT of our players while they are here. Every year since it opened, one or two guys come back as totally different players, (Scoop Jardine and Wes Johnson in 2010, Rick Jackson in 2011, Fab Memo in 2012, James Southelrand last year, probably Jerami Grant this year). We were recruiitng top players for decades before that.

First of all you can't count Wes Johnson ... Fab was a 5 star recruit and lets not make it sound like guys like Etan Thomas, Rony and several others didn't come in and increase their stock. Since the Melo center opened in 09 we have been ranked in the preseason top ten 3 times ... you would have to go back 21 years prior to 09 to accumulate that many ... it is a bi-product of better recruiting ... how people do not see this beyond me. Other than a 5 year period encompassing our NC season give me a better 5 years for the program then the ones encompassing the opening of the Melo Center ... one second round, two sweet 16s, one elite 8 and 1 final four ... is this even a debate ... that is what we have done since it opened ... give me a better 5 year stretch.

 

[wfschrec]

Not sure how to measure this but I decided to count the "likes" we have gotten in this thread. I have made 25 posts prior to this one and gotten 34 likes and you have made 28 posts and gotten 11 likes. Just sayin'. :noidea:

Yep and 24 of them are applied to your history post ... not too many are on your defense of our substandard facilities ... what is this a gallop poll?

 

[rrlbees]

First of all you can't count Wes Johnson ... Fab was a 5 star recruit and lets not make it sound like guys like Etan Thomas, Rony and several others didn't come in and increase their stock. Since the Melo center opened in 09 we have been ranked in the preseason top ten 3 times ... you would have to go back 21 years prior to 09 to accumulate that many ... it is a bi-product of better recruiting ... how people do not see this beyond me. Other than a 5 year period encompassing our NC season give me a better 5 years for the program then the ones encompassing the opening of the Melo Center ... one second round, two sweet 16s, one elite 8 and 1 final four ... is this even a debate ... that is what we have done since it opened ... give me a better 5 year stretch.

You're talking recruiting though. Our success over the years has been based on the occasional star and many good to very good players who developed here. I don't see us getting kids like UK has, a wealth of 4 and 5 stars. The Melo center is great and has helped recruiting. But JB, Hop, the programs success and our conference help's more.


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[wfschrec]

You're talking recruiting though. Our success over the years has been based on the occasional star and many good to very good players who developed here. I don't see us getting kids like UK has, a wealth of 4 and 5 stars. The Melo center is great and has helped recruiting. But JB, Hop, the programs success and our conference help's more.


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So what you are telling me is that this 5 year run we are on is not sustainable ... is that it? Because we do not have another string like this in our program's history ... just look at it year by year ...

The fact is you guys are defending facilities like you are responsible for them ... in a way we all are ... with respect to donations or other forms of support and we all do what we can ... but to sit here and say they aren't subpar and don't affective us in a negative manner is insane and silly ... its ok to admit we aren't on the same level as many of our peers ... at least not yet.

Since the center opened we have had three 30 win seasons .. prior to that ... 2 in all of our history ... we blew threw the Big East with 1 loss in 2011-2012 (the first team to ever do so in BE regular season history) prior to that we were never close to that kind of in conference mark, these are not coincidences.

 

[rrlbees]

So what you are telling me is that this 5 year run we are on is not sustainable ... is that it? Because we do not have another string like this in our program's history ... just look at it year by year ...

The fact is you guys are defending facilities like you are responsible for them ... in a way we all are ... with respect to donations or other forms of support and we all do what we can ... but to sit here and say they aren't subpar and don't affective us in a negative manner is insane and silly ... its ok to admit we aren't on the same level as many of our peers ... at least not yet.

Since the center opened we have had three 30 win seasons .. prior to that ... 2 in all of our history ... we blew threw the Big East with 1 loss in 2011-2012 (the first team to ever do so in BE regular season history) prior to that we were never close to that kind of in conference mark, these are not coincidences.

Again, you are pointing at win loss record only to say its because of the recruits we get due to the Melo Center. Again, I will say yes it helps but regardless of record, we don't haul in a slew of studs. Since the Melo Center has opened, has out recruiting really gotten THAT much better? We've always recruited good except a time period of the Davis's and Theus's. I am also only saying that no matter how much the Melo Centet helps, the biggest reason kids come here are a HOF coach, the program itself and it's sustained success and the conference's we play in. We've gotten some pretty great players over the years without the Melo Center and that now continues.


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[Bayside44]

Again, you are pointing at win loss record only to say its because of the recruits we get due to the Melo Center. Again, I will say yes it helps but regardless of record, we don't haul in a slew of studs. Since the Melo Center has opened, has out recruiting really gotten THAT much better? We've always recruited good except a time period of the Davis's and Theus's. I am also only saying that no matter how much the Melo Centet helps, the biggest reason kids come here are a HOF coach, the program itself and it's sustained success and the conference's we play in. We've gotten some pretty great players over the years without the Melo Center and that now continues.


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Of course we got good players then, but our peers for the most part didn't have insanely nice facilities either however many years back as well. Now as more investment is done by other schools to have the best they are playing catchup with us. Having the Melo Center is now a big part of 'the program itself."

 

[rrlbees]

Of course we got good players then, but our peers for the most part didn't have insanely nice facilities either however many years back as well. Now as more investment is done by other schools to have the best they are playing catchup with us. Having the Melo Center is now a big part of 'the program itself."

It's nice to be on top. But you know that if JB retired, we joined the Patriot league and 8,000 fans went to games, our recruiting would take a nose dive. If the Melo Center collapsed and everything else stayed the same, we'd still do great recruiting.


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[Bayside44]

It's nice to be on top. But you know that if JB retired, we joined the Patriot league and 8,000 fans went to games, our recruiting would take a nose dive. If the Melo Center collapsed and everything else stayed the same, we'd still do great recruiting.


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Well JB is gonna retire, so you cannot hang your hat on an aging coach forever. And you know doing well and doing great is the the difference between a Second Round / Sweet 16 vs Elite 8s / FFs.

 

[anomander]

Not sure how to measure this but I decided to count the "likes" we have gotten in this thread. I have made 25 posts prior to this one and gotten 34 likes and you have made 28 posts and gotten 11 likes. Just sayin'. :noidea:

it's amazing that you really think you are right about this. when your counting "likes" i am being realistic. I haven't seen 1 poster come to your side and say our facilities when Marrone took over were "fine", or middle of the pack...since that was the original point of the thread.

you got the likes because of the novel you wrote given us a century worth's of facility information, it wasn't because they agreed with you.

 

[anomander]

Again, you are pointing at win loss record only to say its because of the recruits we get due to the Melo Center. Again, I will say yes it helps but regardless of record, we don't haul in a slew of studs. Since the Melo Center has opened, has out recruiting really gotten THAT much better? We've always recruited good except a time period of the Davis's and Theus's. I am also only saying that no matter how much the Melo Centet helps, the biggest reason kids come here are a HOF coach, the program itself and it's sustained success and the conference's we play in. We've gotten some pretty great players over the years without the Melo Center and that now continues.


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I don't know about that. Since the Melo Center was complete in 2009 here is how we finished

2013 - #7
2012 - #17 (only took 2 kids, DC was a 5 star)
2011- #10 (took 3, Rak and MCW both 5 star)
2010- #5
2009 - NR
2008- NR
2007- #3
2006- NR
2005- NR
2004- NR
2003-#7

 

[OrangePA]

I haven't dismissed facilities- I just did a nine page post on them that started this thread. Some posters seem to think they are all that matters in recruiting and that our facilities are or have been "a mess". Neither is true. We had a genuine facilities crisis back in the seventies. We haven't really had one since, just a need to update them in certain ways from time to time, which we've done. We haven't built the palaces you see in some of those photos and I'm glad we didn't.

Your assessment of the facilities is simply not accurate.

They have been pretty close to a mess for awhile - we have been in crisis mode.

Marrone made that quite clear to donors.

I wonder if you have ever been to a Big Ten Football Complex.

 

[OrangePA]

Not sure how to measure this but I decided to count the "likes" we have gotten in this thread. I have made 25 posts prior to this one and gotten 34 likes and you have made 28 posts and gotten 11 likes. Just sayin'. :noidea:

Oh my.

Here is my best take.

Many people on this board have the same inaccurate understanding of our significant infrastructure problems that you have and that you have had for many years.

And that's not all that surprising to me.

For comparison purposes.

A lot of folks were crowing about SU's 11,000 square foot weight room a few years ago.

The Indiana University weight room is 25,000 square feet - it pretty much dwarfs what we have - and we're talking about IU - not an elite college football program.

IU has been building a lot in the past three years - the revenue from BTN has made a huge difference and the new facilities have significantly impacted recruiting.

 

[rrlbees]

Oh my.

Here is my best take.

Many people on this board have the same inaccurate understanding of our significant infrastructure problems that you have and that you have had for many years.

And that's not all that surprising to me.

For comparison purposes.

A lot of folks were crowing about SU's 11,000 square foot weight room a few years ago.

The Indiana University weight room is 25,000 square feet - it pretty much dwarfs what we have - and we're talking about IU - not an elite college football program.

IU has been building a lot in the past three years - the revenue from BTN has made a huge difference and the new facilities have significantly impacted recruiting.

You're cherry picking. I believe Indiana has the largest weight room in the country. Plus, I bet much of it was funded by donors.


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[rrlbees]

I don't know about that. Since the Melo Center was complete in 2009 here is how we finished

2013 - #7
2012 - #17 (only took 2 kids, DC was a 5 star)
2011- #10 (took 3, Rak and MCW both 5 star)
2010- #5
2009 - NR
2008- NR
2007- #3
2006- NR
2005- NR
2004- NR
2003-#7

A couple of those NR's are ranked depending upon site used. But it could be said the upsurge started when JB got elected into the college HOF. But regardless of the numbers, not many of those kids before this year came here because of the Melo Center. I don't know about this class. The Philly connection had nothing to do with it. DC being local had nothing to do with it. It's a selling point vs a negative, but there are many reasons why they come here that aren't the center.


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[anomander]

A couple of those NR's are ranked depending upon site used. But it could be said the upsurge started when JB got elected into the college HOF. But regardless of the numbers, not many of those kids before this year came here because of the Melo Center. I don't know about this class. The Philly connection had nothing to do with it. DC being local had nothing to do with it. It's a selling point vs a negative, but there are many reasons why they come here that aren't the center.


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i agree with that, but all the things you listed put us even with about 40 other school across the country. like you said we were still going to get good prospects. however the Melo Center now puts us over the top with a bunch of those kids. We simply have something to offer that basically nobody else does, despite a few other elite schools. While we would get a top 10 class every few years before, i'm willing to bet we will be a constant in the top 15. 2014 is already set with a 5 star, and a top 10 PG, and 2015 is just going to be ridiculous. JB himself has said this in one way or another a few times.

 

[GoSU96]

Your assessment of the facilities is simply not accurate.

They have been pretty close to a mess for awhile - we have been in crisis mode.

Marrone made that quite clear to donors.

I wonder if you have ever been to a Big Ten Football Complex.

Yep

 

[rrlbees]

i agree with that, but all the things you listed put us even with about 40 other school across the country. like you said we were still going to get good prospects. however the Melo Center now puts us over the top with a bunch of those kids. We simply have something to offer that basically nobody else does, despite a few other elite schools. While we would get a top 10 class every few years before, i'm willing to bet we will be a constant in the top 15. 2014 is already set with a 5 star, and a top 10 PG, and 2015 is just going to be ridiculous. JB himself has said this in one way or another a few times.

SU basketball and JB have both become a "cult", Melo center or not. We are one of the "in" places to be.


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[OrangePA]

You're cherry picking. I believe Indiana has the largest weight room in the country. Plus, I bet much of it was funded by donors.


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Cherry picking?

I went to school there for gosh sakes!

I have been familiar with the football facilities for 35 years.

I can assure you that the money came from BTN - trust me on that.

And I can assure you that what Indiana has built is not at all an anomaly.

I'm amazed that you don't get it.

 

[rrlbees]

Cherry picking?

I went to school there for gosh sakes!

I have been familiar with the football facilities for 35 years.

I can assure you that the money came from BTN - trust me on that.

And I can assure you that what Indiana has built is not at all an anomaly.

I'm amazed that you don't get it.

I just looked it up. An article says it is the largest in the country. So why compare us to that?


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[Bayside44]

SU basketball and JB have both become a "cult", Melo center or not. We are one of the "in" places to be.


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After the 2003 NC it's been a bit disappointing til the Melo Center.

 

[rrlbees]

I just looked it up. An article says it is the largest in the country. So why compare us to that?

Also, Indiana has the largest athletic endowment in the B10. Surprised by that.

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