Facilities | Page 9 | Syracusefan.com

Facilities

Bayside44 said:
After the 2003 NC it's been a bit disappointing til the Melo Center.
Expand...

Win losses or recruiting?

Down the stretch in games last year which resulted in a final 4.

MCW
Triche
Fair
Southerland
Keita

Notice anything?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rrlbees said:
Win losses or recruiting?

Down the stretch in games last year which resulted in a final 4.

MCW
Triche
Fair
Southerland
Keita

Notice anything?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


Tournament results.

I see a 5 star, 4 star (who snuck by with an injured hs senior year) , and some really old dudes.

Put a bubble under a park and give the kids a dorm shower, wouldn't matter a lick.
 
wfschrec said:
Yep and 24 of them are applied to your history post ... not too many are on your defense of our substandard facilities ... what is this a gallop poll?
Expand...


I was just looking for some indication that I am part of a small minority and anomaber is part of a vast majority. I assumed that my original spot should count.
 
anomander said:
it's amazing that you really think you are right about this. when your counting "likes" i am being realistic. I haven't seen 1 poster come to your side and say our facilities when Marrone took over were "fine", or middle of the pack...since that was the original point of the thread.

you got the likes because of the novel you wrote given us a century worth's of facility information, it wasn't because they agreed with you.
Expand...

Well, I think everybody knows what I think and everybody knows what you think and everybody knows what they think. The issue has been pretty well aired out. I looked at my scratch sheet and found that I had no "likes" in my last 10 posts and you had two in your last 18. I think that's evidence that the rest of the board has moved on and that we should do so as well.
 
rrlbees said:
I just looked it up. An article says it is the largest in the country. So why compare us to that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


If a small time football program like IU is committed to facilities to that degree it tells you something.

I have not researched it in the way you have but I can pretty much assure you that our weight room is at the bottom of the list when compared to the power conference teams.

We have been and remain way behind. And that has to change to draw talent. And I think it will.
 
OrangePA said:
If a small time football program like IU is committed to facilities to that degree it tells you something.

I have not researched it in the way you have but I can pretty much assure you that our weight room is at the bottom of the list when compared to the power conference teams.

We have been and remain way behind. And that has to change to draw talent. And I think it will.
Expand...

Indiana has the largest athletic endowment in the B10 and raise outrageous amounts of money each year. That means people donate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rrlbees said:
Indiana has the largest athletic endowment in the B10 and raise outrageous amounts of money each year. That means people donate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


You are crazy.

Nuts.

In La La Land.

We were in near bankruptcy a few years ago.

The BTN save IU Athletics.

What else do you wish to tell me about my alma mater???

Did I not live in the Sig Ep house???
 
rrlbees said:
You should file your complaints here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_University_Bloomington

And here

http://iufoundation.iu.edu/newsroom/archive/2012/varsity-club.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


Okay, so the article refers to $9 million in contributions.

The Athletic Department receives well over $20 million per year from the BTN.

The "endowment" refers to scholarship money, not cash for infrastructure.

That dedicated money does not pay for coaches or new buildings. It's a meaningless stat for this discussion.

The IU Athletic Program was under water a few years ago because of multiple fired coaches and ADs still under contract- DiNardo, Sampson, Davis, McNeely et al.

Regardless of your research, the point is that IU is demonstrating what must be done to build a football program - spend a lot of money on facilities.
 
Last edited:
OrangePA said:
$9 million in contributions.

Well over $20 million from the BTN.

The IU Athletic Program was under water a few years ago.
Expand...

How did they go from the largest athletic endowment in the b10 to near bankruptcy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OrangePA said:
You don't understand what endowment money is.
Expand...

I do. But those articles don't say if any of the donation can be used at any time. But it does talk about the consistent records in donations to the department. The point is, Indiana has donors that allows for better facilities while SU doesn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OrangePA said:
I really do think it's because many of us - I think Steve (SWC) and I are of the same generation - were raised on the "Vince Lombardi Legend" - that he took a bad Green Bay team and through great coaching - hard work, discipline and intelligence - almost immediately made it play great.

I think many of us want to believe that that is a very possible scenario - that great coaching can transform players and programs instantly.

The legend is cool. It makes us feel good. It gives hope - especially to those like me who have very little natural ability - in anything!

I think most fans truly appreciate talent - whether it's on the field itself or on the sideline. We want to believe that certain coaches really do see the game differently.

The reality, however, is that in nearly every instance the talent of the players is what truly makes the difference.

And in college the coaches who have the money and facilities (See Oregon) attract the best players.
Expand...

I'm watching an ESPN Sports Century on Lombardi now. Obviously, few coaches are going to be Vince Lombardi. Most are more like Phil Bengston. I'm not sure Lombardi's approach would work any more anyway.

I feel the need to ask you: how much difference DOES a coach make? Obviously Paul Pasqualoni doesn't = Greg Robinson who doesn't = Doug Marrone. And then there's the question of how much the coach influences how much talent he has, both as a recruiter and as the result of the quality and success of his coaching. How much does that have to do with it?

Your instinct is to defend coaches and yet to do it, you sometimes seem to be portraying them as powerless or irrelevant. If coaches are successful, should that be attributed to others- the Athletic Director, the Chancellor, the Board of Trustees, boosters, fans- as well? if you transfer the blame, don't you also transfer the credit?
 
SWC75 said:
I'm watching an ESPN Sports Century on Lombardi now. Obviously, few coaches are going to be Vince Lombardi. Most are more like Phil Bengston. I'm not sure Lombardi's approach would work any more anyway.

I feel the need to ask you: how much difference DOES a coach make? Obviously Paul Pasqualoni doesn't = Greg Robinson who doesn't = Doug Marrone. And then there's the question of how much the coach influences how much talent he has, both as a recruiter and as the result of the quality and success of his coaching. How much does that have to do with it?

Your instinct is to defend coaches and yet to do it, you sometimes seem to be portraying them as powerless or irrelevant. If coaches are successful, should that be attributed to others- the Athletic Director, the Chancellor, the Board of Trustees, boosters, fans- as well? if you transfer the blame, don't you also transfer the credit?
Expand...


Vince Lombardi has nothing to do with the college game in 2013.
 
SWC75 said:
I'm watching an ESPN Sports Century on Lombardi now. Obviously, few coaches are going to be Vince Lombardi. Most are more like Phil Bengston. I'm not sure Lombardi's approach would work any more anyway.

I feel the need to ask you: how much difference DOES a coach make? Obviously Paul Pasqualoni doesn't = Greg Robinson who doesn't = Doug Marrone. And then there's the question of how much the coach influences how much talent he has, both as a recruiter and as the result of the quality and success of his coaching. How much does that have to do with it?

Your instinct is to defend coaches and yet to do it, you sometimes seem to be portraying them as powerless or irrelevant. If coaches are successful, should that be attributed to others- the Athletic Director, the Chancellor, the Board of Trustees, boosters, fans- as well? if you transfer the blame, don't you also transfer the credit?
Expand...


I frankly am not sure I understand your question. Sorry.

But let me say this.

You're missing the point on Vince Lombardi. I wasn't assessing his ability or his style. I was pointing out what I think impacts your thinking. I suspect that you feel in your gut that the "Vince Lombardi Legend" really does and should happen. That it really does happen that a coach can take a bad team and suddenly transform the team. And I believe that that is not true and does not happen - at least in today's world.

I also am not sure that you understand the dynamic that I think probably prevails in most instances.

Poor or less talented coaches can adversely impact a team of talented players. Indeed, through lack of discipline, poor interpersonal skills, poor football acumen or lack of effort, a bad coach can take a talented team and fail.

Some would say that Barry Switzer took a very talented Dallas Cowboys team and failed to accomplish what he should have accomplished.

On the other hand, an average coach can take a very talented team and win - George Seifert comes to mind.

A very good coach or great coach can take a team that is not so talented and make improvements and maybe win a bit. But he probably can only do so much because he is limited by the talent level he has.

Ultimately, it's the players that win.

Pasqualoni by the end had very mediocre talent. And yet in 2004 he coached the team to a 6-5 regular season with wins over Rutgers, Pitt, and BC, part of the BE Championship and a bowl game. It was perhaps one of his best coaching jobs while on the Hill.

The following year, with much of the same team, Greg Robinson went 1-10. I think that happened because Greg was not prepared to be a head coach and was not truly prepared for the problems inherent with SU Football i.e. the talent level and the need to truly mold that talent level to a scheme that would be successful - at least on offense - and the attention to detail that allowed P and D to succeed.

Now, who was responsible for the talent level during that time period? I place much of the blame on the Administration at the time for the reasons we have recounted many times. The Administration became convinced that P could do well enough without additional investment or significantly new investment. It figured that P could churn out the 10 win team of 2001 every once in awhile and get six to seven wins in other years and that was perfectly acceptable.

I don't think the Administration truly appreciated what P was doing with so little financial support. I suspect that certain members of the BOT did not truly understand. I think many felt as you did back then - that our facilities were just fine.

Or, it could be that Mr. Shaw and others knew what was happening - that our competition was outstripping us - but felt that there was nothing that could be done at the time due to general financial issues at the University.

I think Jake was a brilliant administrator - he had great success at SU - but one wonders whether he had the ability or the interest or the desire to raise much needed funds.

He clearly understood the financial issues - that is why he made the play for the ACC in 2003 - he understood what it would do for football.

But, he ran into bad luck and could not bolster SU Football finances in that way. And the whammy of Miami, Va Tech and BC leaving the BE obviously hurt us a lot.

I think we had some bad luck in other ways - losing Vick and Daly come to mind.

And I think the rise of the power conferences especially down south hurt along with the tremendous amount of spending by other schools on facilities and coaches. So, it was really a confluence of things that hurt.

Do I think that P and D and Brian White and others suddenly become unable to recruit? I doubt that. I think the infrastructure issues really hurt them - the AstroTurf in the Dome was a big problem - I was specifically told that the turf was hurting by the recruiting coordinator at the time.

The bottom line for me is that many on this board - you especially - have never truly understood the fundamental structural disadvantages that the SU Head Football Coach faces when he gets the job. I don't think you or others understand that that basic challenge remains and needs to be fixed - quickly.

Hopefully that answered your question.
 
rrlbees said:
I do. But those articles don't say if any of the donation can be used at any time. But it does talk about the consistent records in donations to the department. The point is, Indiana has donors that allows for better facilities while SU doesn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


Again, I have lived it.

I can tell you that the expansion in facilities in the last two years is due to BTN money.

Does Indiana raise more money than SU?

I'm sure it does - it's large public school with a large Alumni base and a strong fund raising Foundation.

IU received $1 million from John Mellencamp ten years ago to build its IPF. And at about that time built a new weight room.

But IU continued to trail the rest of the Big Ten. And that has only changed recently due to the BTN.

And I think it's important to understand the difference between what IU did ten years ago and what IU did two years ago.

The new weight room ten years ago was nice. The IPF was also pretty nice.

But the enclosure of the stadium - the addition of fancy offices and study rooms and meeting rooms and the creation of a magnificent weight room facility was game changing. It was all the essence of what Marrone called the "wow" factor.

I had a tour of the new facilities with my fraternity brothers two summers ago and that was our collective reaction - "Wow!!!!"

Now SU has done some nice cosmetic things over the last year with the football office, but it is structurally the same place. And though it's nice, it does not have the kind of "game changing" impact that adding a five story office building in the endzone of a football stadium has.

What IU has done and what SU has done simply cannot be compared - it's not even close.

And many here - you included - and I'm really shocked by that - still don't get it.
 
Last edited:
OrangePA said:
Again, I have lived it.

I can tell you that the expansion in facilities in the last two years is due to BTN money.

Does Indiana raise more money than SU?

I'm sure it does - it's large public school with a large Alumni base and a strong fund raising Foundation.

IU received $1 million from John Mellencamp ten years ago to build its IPF. And at about that time built a new weight room.

But IU continued to trail the rest of the Big Ten. And that has only changed recently due to the BTN.

And I think it's important to understand the difference between what IU did ten years ago and what IU did two years ago.

The new weight room ten years ago was nice. The IPF was also pretty nice.

But the enclosure of the stadium - the addition of fancy offices and study rooms and meeting rooms and the creation of a magnificent weight room facility was game changing. It was all the essence of what Marrone called the "wow" factor.

I had a tour of the new facilities with my fraternity brothers two summers ago and that was our collective reaction - "Wow!!!!"

Now SU has done some nice cosmetic things over the last year with the football office, but it is structurally the same place. And though it's nice, it does not have the kind of "game changing" impact that adding a five story office building in the endzone of a football stadium has.

What IU has done and what SU has done simply cannot be compared - it's not even close.

And many here - you included - and I'm really shocked by that - still don't get it.
Expand...

I completely get it. Where did I say our facilities were as good as a B10's team or a public university? I've said compare apples to apples. You sound like you want all the athletic structures torn down and to start over. What we have now, short of the IPF is fine compared to our peer group. Did you know our weight room is as big as or bigger than some in the ACC?

What some here fail to get is that for a private university almost all athletic facilities are built or upgraded via donations. Who's responsible for that? The AD and the HC and friends of the program. Go study up on how the vaunted Melo Center came about. It wasn't done by the HC pissing off potential donors.

If you think getting ACC money now that you will see all these new structures popping up and no donor money used, you're wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rrlbees said:
I completely get it. Where did I say our facilities were as good as a B10's team or a public university? I've said compare apples to apples. You sound like you want all the athletic structures torn down and to start over. What we have now, short of the IPF is fine compared to our peer group. Did you know our weight room is as big as or bigger than some in the ACC?

What some here fail to get is that for a private university almost all athletic facilities are built or upgraded via donations. Who's responsible for that? The AD and the HC and friends of the program. Go study up on how the vaunted Melo Center came about. It wasn't done by the HC pissing off potential donors.

If you think getting ACC money now that you will see all these new structures popping up and no donor money used, you're wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


The Indiana effort is the result of BTN.

I don't think you get that.

And your presumption that we compare to our competition is just not accurate.
 
OrangePA said:
The Indiana effort is the result of BTN.

I don't think you get that.

And your presumption that we compare to our competition is just not accurate.
Expand...

You can say that since you should know. But Indiana hasn't brought in enough BTN money to pay for all the facility upgrades they have made. As Dave Brandon of Michigan was quoted in an article, he gets much more bang from just 1 major donor than he does from BTN money.

And yes, we are competitive enough with our peer group for it not to be a negative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rrlbees said:
You can say that since you should know. But Indiana hasn't brought in enough BTN money to pay for all the facility upgrades they have made. As Dave Brandon of Michigan was quoted in an article, he gets much more bang from just 1 major donor than he does from BTN money.

And yes, we are competitive enough with our peer group for it not to be a negative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


IU is not Michigan.
 
rrlbees said:
That is true. And Syracuse isn't an Indiana

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...


You're right. We are not IU.

Indeed, thats my point. We are clearly not IU. But we need to be because we compete for players with IU. See Laray Smith.

And we better be NC, Va Tech, Louisville, Clemson, and the rest if we want to compete in the ACC.

And right now we're not close to those schools.
 
OrangePA said:
You're right. We are not IU.

Indeed, thats my point. We are clearly not IU. But we need to be because we compete for players with IU. See Laray Smith.

And we better be NC, Va Tech, Louisville, Clemson, and the rest if we want to compete in the ACC.

And right now we're not close to those schools.
Expand...

We're not going to compete on facilities with public schools that have 40,000 students. You might want to start beating the pavement and looking for donors...big donors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rrlbees said:
We're not going to compete on facilities with public schools that have 40,000 students. You might want to start beating the pavement and looking for donors...big donors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Expand...

And TV money which is forthcoming.

Marrone didn't ask to be No. 1- he just wanted to be in the middle of the conference

That was a remarkable indication as to the state of our facilities.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

llandz
    • Like
Chat room
Replies
9
Views
1K
orange79
orange79
F
    • Like
What did I do wrong at Cuse?
2 3 4
Replies
97
Views
5K
SUFaninNJ
SUFaninNJ
SWC75
    • Like
The Downside - Pittsburgh
Replies
4
Views
777
David321
David321
SWC75
    • Like
The Coach Fran Brown Show - before Ohio U.
Replies
16
Views
2K
SWC75
SWC75
sutomcat
    • Like
My Take
2
Replies
28
Views
3K
FrancoPizza
FrancoPizza

Forum statistics

Threads
170,411
Messages
4,890,217
Members
5,996
Latest member
meierscreek

Share this page

Online statistics

Members online
268
Guests online
1,701
Total visitors
1,969
Totals may include hidden visitors.


...
Top Bottom