Facilities

[rrlbees]

I think hoops is very different ... you are recruiting literally a class 20% the size of football ... and if you think that when a guy like Malik Brown jumps ship to go to Tennessee because he had a better relationship with Butch Jones than he did Scott Shafer than I have a bridge in Brooklyn that is for sale. Everyone even says how much of an impact the Melo center has had on hoops and their recruiting so I call BS.

You are recruiting a class 20% the size but the pool of players is about 20%.

When a Brown goes to Tennessee instead of SU, it's probably a number of factors. It might not be Jones vs Shafer but it's not just facilities either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wfschrec]

You really think that a recruits relationship with a football coach isn't as important as his relationship with a basketball coach?

By the way, how is Tennessee doing these days?

Again not the point ... where is Brown playing (little hint it ain't at SU)? And I think you should reread what I wrote ... how Tennessee is doing has no bearing on the fact that Brown left ... actually it furthers my point that winning and relationship with coaches are always important but you can't dismiss facilities ... you obviously aren't getting that. And again why is that recruits address the Melo Center on a consistent basis? Is it because they have such a great relationship with Boehiem and he tells them to? Um no ... its because it is a BIG SELLING POINT TO RECRUITS.

 

[wfschrec]

You are recruiting a class 20% the size but the pool of players is about 20%.

When a Brown goes to Tennessee instead of SU, it's probably a number of factors. It might not be Jones vs Shafer but it's not just facilities either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I never said it was just facilities ... again read what I wrote. My point is it isn't just winning/coach relationships ...

 

[wfschrec]

You are recruiting a class 20% the size but the pool of players is about 20%.

When a Brown goes to Tennessee instead of SU, it's probably a number of factors. It might not be Jones vs Shafer but it's not just facilities either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And by the way it is easier for a coach to spend time with 5 recruits than it is with 25 ... I don't care how big the pool size is .. that has no bearing on my point.

 

[rrlbees]

And by the way it is easier for a coach to spend time with 5 recruits than it is with 25 ... I don't care how big the pool size is .. that has no bearing on my point.

If your point is coach relationships aren't important or as important as facilities, you're wrong. They are as important as basketball. Otherwise, I guess I'm not sure of your point. I don't think anyone says facilities don't mean anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wfschrec]

If your point is coach relationships aren't important or as important as facilities, you're wrong. They are as important as basketball. Otherwise, I guess I'm not sure of your point. I don't think anyone says facilities don't mean anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, read what I wrote ... my point is facilities are very important ... not per SWCs post quoting Boehiem ... that is my point. However you can't honestly tell me that the relationships coaches in basketball have are the same as the relationships coaches in football have with recruits ... with AAU traveling hoops and a smaller number of recruits to draw all the way down to the ease by which camps are to manage for hoops vs football you honestly can't tell me that they carry the same weight in both sports.

 

[rrlbees]

No, read what I wrote ... my point is facilities are very important ... not per SWCs post quoting Boehiem ... that is my point. However you can't honestly tell me that the relationships coaches in basketball have are the same as the relationships coaches in football have with recruits ... with AAU traveling hoops and a smaller number of recruits to draw all the way down to the ease by which camps are to manage for hoops vs football you honestly can't tell me that they carry the same weight in both sports.

It's a different type of relationship. In basketball it is mostly a relationship with the players. They are much mire visible and accessible year round on the court. In football those relationships may not be as deep so the relationships are made with HS coaches. Of course on the basketball side you have the AAU coaches. Look at some of our football recruits. We have a commit maybe more that haven't seen SU but McDonald has a relationship with their coach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wfschrec]

It's a different type of relationship. In basketball it is mostly a relationship with the players. They are much mire visible and accessible year round on the court. In football those relationships may not be as deep so the relationships are made with HS coaches. Of course on the basketball side you have the AAU coaches. Look at some of our football recruits. We have a commit maybe more that haven't seen SU but McDonald has a relationship with their coach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only commit we have had that hasn't seen the campus and committed is Edouard and he was already committed to the U not too long ago ... lets not make it sound like we have 10 kids from FL lined up to play without setting foot on campus. Until an LOI is signed I'm not taking anything for granted. And what you said further exemplifies my point anyway ... citing what Boehiem said is not applicable here ... and again no one has yet to address the fact that EVERY hoops recruit brings up the Melo center as a big part of the recruitment process. I never ever said by any means that relationships weren't important ... what I am saying is you can't sit here and tell me facilities aren't a large piece of the puzzle.

 

[OrangePA]

You are recruiting a class 20% the size but the pool of players is about 20%.

When a Brown goes to Tennessee instead of SU, it's probably a number of factors. It might not be Jones vs Shafer but it's not just facilities either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bees - It's mostly facilities/money.

That's the reality.

 

[OrangePA]

Jim Boeheim was discussing recruiting on his show one time and said that by far the biggest factor was the player's relationship with the coaches. I think the next biggest factor is whether we are winning these days and how we look on the field. A 0-56 loss on TV hurts us more than the infrastructure at Manley. The recruits aren't building inspectors.

The joke is really on the schools that built expensive facilities to recruit teenagers when we don't really know how they will turn out until they get here. Their ratings are snapshots of them as they are or appear to be early in their careers. We've never had glamorous facilities, except for the Dome in the early days and we've had many good teams over the years. Those schools with the palaces are not always good and we've beaten a lot of them.

Jim Boeheim spoke to the Orange Club in Atlanta on Saturday Morning at the Final Four. I was there.

He confirmed that recruiting is based primarily on facilities - the "wow" factor.

He urged that donations be made for the Indoor Football Facility because that was the key to recruiting and winning.

He confirmed that the Melo Center has had an extraordinary impact on the SU BB Program.

 

[Bayside44]

Jim Boeheim spoke to the Orange Club in Atlanta on Saturday Morning at the Final Four. I was there.

He confirmed that recruiting is based primarily on facilities - the "wow" factor.

He urged that donations be made for the Indoor Football Facility because that was the key to recruiting and winning.

He confirmed that the Melo Center has had an extraordinary impact on the SU BB Program.

I've heard him say the same at the DC sports night and other events. He says it's no secret that our recruiting and rankings have improved with the new facility. Not sure why people want to discount the obvious.

 

[GoSU96]

Jim Boeheim spoke to the Orange Club in Atlanta on Saturday Morning at the Final Four. I was there.

He confirmed that recruiting is based primarily on facilities - the "wow" factor.

He urged that donations be made for the Indoor Football Facility because that was the key to recruiting and winning.

He confirmed that the Melo Center has had an extraordinary impact on the SU BB Program.

That can't be true, the "Board Historian" doesn't believe it to be so.

JB, Marrone say so.

Matt Park, Dan Conley, Adkins have all told me directly that our facilities are at the low end.

But don't take their word for it because there are people who just know better.

 

[OrangePA]

I've heard him say the same at the DC sports night and other events. He says it's no secret that our recruiting and rankings have improved with the new facility. Not sure why people want to discount the obvious.

I really do think it's because many of us - I think Steve (SWC) and I are of the same generation - were raised on the "Vince Lombardi Legend" - that he took a bad Green Bay team and through great coaching - hard work, discipline and intelligence - almost immediately made it play great.

I think many of us want to believe that that is a very possible scenario - that great coaching can transform players and programs instantly.

The legend is cool. It makes us feel good. It gives hope - especially to those like me who have very little natural ability - in anything!

I think most fans truly appreciate talent - whether it's on the field itself or on the sideline. We want to believe that certain coaches really do see the game differently.

The reality, however, is that in nearly every instance the talent of the players is what truly makes the difference.

And in college the coaches who have the money and facilities (See Oregon) attract the best players.

 

[Bayside44]

I really do think it's because many of us - I think Steve (SWC) and I are of the same generation - were raised on the "Vince Lombardi Legend" - that he took a bad Green Bay team and through great coaching - hard work, discipline and intelligence - almost immediately made it play great.

I think many of us want to believe that that is a very possible scenario - that great coaching can transform players and programs instantly.

The legend is cool. It makes us feel good. It gives hope - especially to those like me who have very little natural ability - in anything!

I think most fans truly appreciate talent - whether it's on the field itself or on the sideline. We want to believe that certain coaches really do see the game differently.

The reality, however, is that in nearly every instance the talent of the players is what truly makes the difference.

And in college the coaches who have the money and facilities (See Oregon) attract the best players.

I think you're saying Bees is really old.

It's the talent of the player and the ability to keep them healthy is why the upgrades are so needed. Like you said, we're not dealing with the rub some dirt on it and get back out there generation.

 

[rrlbees]

The only commit we have had that hasn't seen the campus and committed is Edouard and he was already committed to the U not too long ago ... lets not make it sound like we have 10 kids from FL lined up to play without setting foot on campus. Until an LOI is signed I'm not taking anything for granted. And what you said further exemplifies my point anyway ... citing what Boehiem said is not applicable here ... and again no one has yet to address the fact that EVERY hoops recruit brings up the Melo center as a big part of the recruitment process. I never ever said by any means that relationships weren't important ... what I am saying is you can't sit here and tell me facilities aren't a large piece of the puzzle.

Facilities are a piece of the puzzle and again, I don't think anyone had said they aren't. But the aren't the major piece. And we have had a large number of recruits point to a coach or coaches or Marrone in the past 4 years before he left, as being one of the biggest reasons they chose SU. I've even seen recruit positive comments about the Dome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rrlbees]

Bees - It's mostly facilities/money.

That's the reality.

You're whacked. The number one recruiting tool is winning. Makes everything else easier. 2nd I would say is either opportunity to play or comfort level/relationship with coaches. If all of that is equal, then maybe, maybe, facilities are next. Even conference and competition probably comes before it. Big East basketball was a lot like that. The best want to play against the best. Many BE basketball recruits said that long before the Melo Center. I imagine recruiting in the SEC for football is the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rrlbees]

Jim Boeheim spoke to the Orange Club in Atlanta on Saturday Morning at the Final Four. I was there.

He confirmed that recruiting is based primarily on facilities - the "wow" factor.

He urged that donations be made for the Indoor Football Facility because that was the key to recruiting and winning.

He confirmed that the Melo Center has had an extraordinary impact on the SU BB Program.

He's doing the football program a favor. Sure the Melo Center helps. But we recruited fine before it too. You know all the great players we got in the past and great teams we had. They came here because of JB, playing in front of 30k people, the winning tradition and the chance to play in the BE. Some of you talk like we couldn't recruit in basketball before the Melo Center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rrlbees]

That can't be true, the "Board Historian" doesn't believe it to be so.

JB, Marrone say so.

Matt Park, Dan Conley, Adkins have all told me directly that our facilities are at the low end.

But don't take their word for it because there are people who just know better.

Some of you guys are overstating the value of things. If you were to ask any of the coaches if facilities are #1 on a recruits list, they'd say no. Facilities help and can he a discriminator, but many other things are just as important and more. Since you want to quote Marrone, go look up his quote after the upgrades were made at Manley.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rrlbees]

And in college the coaches who have the money and facilities (See Oregon) attract the best players.

We'll never be Oregon or any team like them. We're never going to have the wow factors those type of schools have. Let's just try to keep pace with our peer group which isn't Oregon, Tennessee, Auburn and the other schools people point to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OburgOrange]

Some of you guys are overstating the value of things. If you were to ask any of the coaches if facilities are #1 on a recruits list, they'd say no. Facilities help and can he a discriminator, but many other things are just as important and more. Since you want to quote Marrone, go look up his quote after the upgrades were made at Manley.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What did he say?

 

[rrlbees]

What did he say?

"Don't listen to GOSU."

You gonna make me go look it up huh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[anomander]

He's doing the football program a favor. Sure the Melo Center helps. But we recruited fine before it too. You know all the great players we got in the past and great teams we had. They came here because of JB, playing in front of 30k people, the winning tradition and the chance to play in the BE. Some of you talk like we couldn't recruit in basketball before the Melo Center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sure we got good players in the past, but since the Melo Center was built our recruiting has sky rocketed. Not really even a debate

 

[anomander]

You're whacked. The number one recruiting tool is winning. Makes everything else easier. 2nd I would say is either opportunity to play or comfort level/relationship with coaches. If all of that is equal, then maybe, maybe, facilities are next. Even conference and competition probably comes before it. Big East basketball was a lot like that. The best want to play against the best. Many BE basketball recruits said that long before the Melo Center. I imagine recruiting in the SEC for football is the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ya and you win because you have recruits, who come here because of the coaches and facilities. your using the chicken and the egg theory, but you have it backwards.

 

[rrlbees]

sure we got good players in the past, but since the Melo Center was built our recruiting has sky rocketed. Not really even a debate

Never said it doesn't help. But it's not the main driver at all. Winning, JB and the program itself are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[anomander]

Facilities are the main factor in recruiting plain and simple.

What were schools like Oregon and Oklahoma St doing before Phil Knight and T Boone Pickett came around? Absolutely not a thing. You build elite facilities, and you attract elite coaches. Combine the 2 and you bring in elite players, which lead to Rose bowls, and rankings never achieved before. Look at Clemson's recent insurgence. Just happens to coincide with their building of new facilities.

Sure you can say it's coaches relationships, but these coaches aren't going to these schools unless there is a commitment, and they sure the hell aren't staying unless what they have there is better then what other places are offering. Winning comes after all of that.