Feldman Feature On The Athletic

[chugg21]

Syracuse football was once a beacon of success and innovation. Will that remain a memory?

Syracuse football once had its own identity and brand. As the Orange have lost it, the wins have been fewer and fewer.

theathletic.com

 

[MSOrange]

Syracuse football was once a beacon of success and innovation. Will that remain a memory?

Syracuse football once had its own identity and brand. As the Orange have lost it, the wins have been fewer and fewer.

theathletic.com

Thanks for posting. Won't be able to read the whole thing until tonight, but so far it's a really good read.

 

[chugg21]

Thanks for posting. Won't be able to read the whole thing until tonight, but so far it's a really good read.

Definitely enjoyed it. Especially with being too young to know anything other than the basics of the pre-McNabb years.

 

[elimunelson]

it validates what many on here have said. P and D were well respected inside and outside the building. the way they did them dirty was outrageous.

Interesting that Rippon thought 05 had 97 potential. what a lost opportunity bringing in a new system. Cantor and Gross destroyed the football program completely.

 

[Newhouser]

Excellent article - interesting on a lot of levels from the build, the successes and the hint that things got a little stale near the end. Also we forget the coaching tree - Bengals DC was a surprise to me. good read.

 

[elimunelson]

Excellent article - interesting on a lot of levels from the build, the successes and the hint that things got a little stale near the end. Also we forget the coaching tree - Bengals DC was a surprise to me. good read.

no one disputes the record at the end. i think revisionist history suggests staleness. I lean on the fact we couldn't find the right qb to run the offense.

a Vick following McNabb would have freshened the produce so to speak into the early 2000s and who knows what follows then.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

it validates what many on here have said. P and D were well respected inside and outside the building. the way they did them dirty was outrageous.

Interesting that Rippon thought 05 had 97 potential. what a lost opportunity bringing in a new system. Cantor and Gross destroyed the football program completely.

That 2005 team was all but guaranteed to have a losing record no matter who was HC. We had a lot more issues than just QB.

GRob actually improved the D performance, especially against the Spread.

The group of WRs Coach P left behind was criminal. And 2004 was pretty bad too.

Coach P needed to go. He was a very good HC for about a decade but his time had passed. I think his time at UConn only further proves that point.

 

[Cuse'91]

That 2005 team was all but guaranteed to have a losing record no matter who was HC. We had a lot more issues than just QB.

GRob actually improved the D performance, especially against the Spread.

The group of WRs Coach P left behind was criminal. And 2004 was pretty bad too.

Coach P needed to go. He was a very good HC for about a decade but his time had passed. I think his time at UConn only further proves that point.

Would Ray Rice have made Coach P look better?

 

[Nick44]

I had my doubts but it was an excellent read. I always get a little sad going down memory lane, especially when talking about this program. As a 10 year old in 1995, this program to me was as big as the San Francisco 49ers of the 80’s or the Cowboys of the 90’s.

I feel like the contributors made it a point to avoid the elephant in the room which to me is the current CFB landscape highlighted by NIL/transfer portal. There was a brief mention but this to me would’ve long ago wiped out any program like this one that existed in the 80’s and 90’s, highlighted by a coaching staff that out worked others and was able to find diamonds in the rough. Now other schools can just take those players (and coaches) if they pay enough for them without any regard for penalty.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Would Ray Rice have made Coach P look better?

No, not IMO. We had a pretty good SR RB. Rice maybe has a 2006 DC3 like season. Not enough to get a winning record in 2005. You cannot win games with no QB and DII level WRs.

 

[richmondcuse03]

it validates what many on here have said. P and D were well respected inside and outside the building. the way they did them dirty was outrageous.

Interesting that Rippon thought 05 had 97 potential. what a lost opportunity bringing in a new system. Cantor and Gross destroyed the football program completely.

That part...was definitely revisionist history by Rippon. The talent level was not great. There's no doubt P and crew were coaching up what we had but it had fallen off a big level. And then the admin / Gross made it 100x worse. It was handled as poorly as possible by someone who wanted to make a splash.

I wish the article talked more about the future vs. just lamenting what we used to be. That was the part that kind of was missing for me. Hearing Coach P say five times he hasn't been back or in the building doesn't do much to me. Babers was barely mentioned.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I had my doubts but it was an excellent read. I always get a little sad going down memory lane, especially when talking about this program. As a 10 year old in 1995, this program to me was as big as the San Francisco 49ers of the 80’s or the Cowboys of the 90’s.

I feel like the contributors made it a point to avoid the elephant in the room which to me is the current CFB landscape highlighted by NIL/transfer portal. There was a brief mention but this to me would’ve long ago wiped out any program like this one that existed in the 80’s and 90’s, highlighted by a coaching staff that out worked others and was able to find diamonds in the rough. Now other schools can just take those players (and coaches) if they pay enough for them without any regard for penalty.

Recruiting landscape was also different. It was regional and much less national. The facilities arms race had started. The fancy new Spread O came about. WV was up and down every year. MD, Pitt, Rutgers, Temple were jokes. UB, UConn were FCS. It was a lot easier to recruit in that era.

 

[elimunelson]

That part...was definitely revisionist history by Rippon. The talent level was not great. There's no doubt P and crew were coaching up what we had but it had fallen off a big level. And then the admin / Gross made it 100x worse. It was handled as poorly as possible by someone who wanted to make a splash.

I wish the article talked more about the future vs. just lamenting what we used to be. That was the part that kind of was missing for me. Hearing Coach P say five times he hasn't been back or in the building doesn't do much to me. Babers was barely mentioned.

well in defense of the article and of the narrative to some extent...P has never stopped working in the fall since he was fired.

he'd have zero chance to come back to syracuse unless he was coaching UConn.

his constant employment in the NFL validates what the article got out which was he's an outstanding X and O guy and was a teacher of football. Sometimes you need more than a teacher. you need vision and a direction. Paul may have lacked there once you lost Jake and the QB run we had.

But there's no doubt the intelligence suck once P&D left hurt our ability to coach up 2 and 3 star talent.

 

[Nick44]

Thought it was also interesting that there was no mention of Kevin Rogers. The fan base wanted him for HC after Robinson was terminated and long credited him for McNabbs success. Rogers was not able to replicate that same success at Notre Dame with Jarious Jackson and better athletes. Maybe he wasn’t the architect that we thought he was.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Would Ray Rice have made Coach P look better?

Probably not in 2005.

He would have been behind Rhodes on the depth chart.

But he would have been on our bench, and not Rutgirls.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Thought it was also interesting that there was no mention of Kevin Rogers. The fan base wanted him for HC after Robinson was terminated and long credited him for McNabbs success. Rogers was not able to replicate that same success at Notre Dame with Jarious Jackson and better athletes. Maybe he wasn’t the architect that we thought he was.

ND had better athletes? He seemed to do fine at VA Tech.

I am guessing based on his career arc that he wouldn't have been a good HC here. But he was a good O coach.

 

[sufandu]

no one disputes the record at the end. i think revisionist history suggests staleness. I lean on the fact we couldn't find the right qb to run the offense.

a Vick following McNabb would have freshened the produce so to speak into the early 2000s and who knows what follows then.

I think Vick delays the inevitable. The administration would've felt good about the program while ignoring the cracks in the foundation and refusing to invest while we got passed by our peers.

 

[elimunelson]

Thought it was also interesting that there was no mention of Kevin Rogers. The fan base wanted him for HC after Robinson was terminated and long credited him for McNabbs success. Rogers was not able to replicate that same success at Notre Dame with Jarious Jackson and better athletes. Maybe he wasn’t the architect that we thought he was.

Thought so too. Kevin was a nice piece but he was a cog in the DeLeone machine in reality. George moved to D one year after his brief NFL stay.

I thought Konrad summed it up very well. He saw through the ND/Lou Holtz BS and saw a situation at Syracuse that was better for him. We had respect up and down the east coast w that coaching staff for sure.

We've lost a ton of that since. Dino has never truly built back the back channel relationships we had in the new england area. I speak with coaches in the hockomock, ISL in the boston area and they lauded the Syracuse machinery back then. In reality, it was BC, Penn St, and Syracuse who dominated new england for many years. ND lurked above all.

Now it's Michigan, BC and NIL.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think Vick delays the inevitable. The administration would've felt good about the program while ignoring the cracks in the foundation and refusing to invest while we got passed by our peers.

Also we likely have the Marcus Vick mess here.

 

[SU91]

Inferring from the article a bit, but I don’t sense confidence in Dino. There’s admittedly a lack of mention, but there’s an undertone in a couple of the remarks.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Inferring from the article a bit, but I don’t sense confidence in Dino. There’s admittedly a lack of mention, but there’s an undertone in a couple of the remarks.

I thought it was nothing more than a glory days piece. It was an excellent article, but the game is too different to be able to compare the road map used back then to now. I think Bowen brought it up in the article, you cant lock down an area like we did before.

 

[elimunelson]

Inferring from the article a bit, but I don’t sense confidence in Dino. There’s admittedly a lack of mention, but there’s an undertone in a couple of the remarks.

we've had one good season in 7 years. Objectively he's been a w/l failure. there are things he's done to provide the unversity with some positive momentum (we're not considered the absolute worst anymore) but he's no paul pasqualoni in his prime.

The days of Dino getting a free pass are over. His record is mediocrity which is what we decided wasn't good enough for Pasqualoni. Enough time has passed to realize it's mediocrity with Dino's guys too.

 

[sufandu]

we've had one good season in 7 years. Objectively he's been a w/l failure. there are things he's done to provide the unversity with some positive momentum (we're not considered the absolute worst anymore) but he's no paul pasqualoni in his prime.

The days of Dino getting a free pass are over. His record is mediocrity which is what we decided wasn't good enough for Pasqualoni. Enough time has passed to realize it's mediocrity with Dino's guys too.

I won't compare Dino to P. The situations were completely different. P inherited a program that had won 4 consecutive bowl games with all the young talent coming back from the previous year. Dino to Mac is a bit fairer but even then I think the climate is more challenging for Dino. I think he needs to start doing some consistent winning for sure, though.

 

[All4SU]

Nice article. Two comments stand out to me.

Donnie McPherson’s comment - “we knew the parents of every other player.” That says team right there. And, well, to use a word, La Familia.

The comment that Robinson was brought in with no Northeast connections. I know that Gross had little time to replace Coach P. But he should have seen that. He was blinded by the USC/Pete Carroll mystique.

 

[cusefan88]

In this era, if Syracuse had coaches as skilled and highly regarded as Coach P and DeLeone they would have gotten bigger offers to leave. Penn State, Michigan, ND etc.